[00:00:04]
[1. CALL TO ORDER – 5:30 PM]
GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.UH, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR COMING TONIGHT TO THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION MEETING FOR TUESDAY, MAY THE SIXTH, 2025.
WE'LL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.
UM, SURE APPRECIATE EVERYBODY BEING HERE TONIGHT.
WE HAVE SEVERAL THINGS IN THE AGENDA TO GOOD TOPICS TO TALK ABOUT.
[2. CONFLICT OF INTEREST ]
FIRST WE'LL START OFF WITH A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, UH, COMMISSIONERS.UH, THIS IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS AND, UH, HERE TO LET US KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY CONFLICT OF INTEREST OF ANY OF THE ACTION ITEMS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
SEEING EVERYBODY SHAKING THEIR HEAD NO, WE HAVE NO CONFLICT OF INTEREST, SO, WHICH IS GOOD NEWS.
THERE ARE ONLY FOUR OF US HERE, SO, UM, BE KIND OF SHORT STAFFED TONIGHT HERE ON THE, UH, FOR US.
SO I GUESS, YOU KNOW, WE'LL ALL BE VOTING, SO AT LEAST HAVE THREE TO ONE TO PASS THE AGENDA TONIGHT.
SO HOPEFULLY THAT WON'T BE ANY ISSUES AT ALL TONIGHT.
SO, UM, NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS A PUBLIC COMMENTS.
THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR VISITORS, GUESTS TO ADDRESS THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION ON ANY ISSUES.
THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION MAY NOT ADDRESS ANY OF THE TOPICS THAT YOU WANT TO DISCUSS, UM, ACCORDING TO THE ATTORNEY GENERALS.
SO AT THIS TIME, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION TONIGHT, UM, ON ITEMS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA, IT'S YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT AT THIS TIME, SEEING NO MOVEMENT ON THAT.
[4. CONSENT AGENDA: All items listed below within the Consent Agenda are considered routine by the Historic Landmark Commission and may be enacted with one motion. There will be no separate discussion of items unless a Commission Member or citizen so requests, in which event the item may be moved to the general order of business and considered in its normal sequence.]
TO THE CONSENT AGENDA.COMMISSIONERS NEXT ON THE ACTION ITEM IS NUMBER FOUR.
THE CONSENT AGENDA, UM, IS ON FOR OF YOU HERE TONIGHT WITH THE MEETING MINUTES FROM, UM, LAST MONTH, APRIL THE FIRST, 2025.
IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS OR THINGS TO BE STRIKED FROM THAT, THIS IS OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO DO THAT.
IF NOT, I WILL LOOK FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA.
I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA, UH, 2 0 2 5 DASH 180 1, THE AGENDA FROM APRIL MEETING.
ALRIGHT, FIRST AND LOOKING FOR A SECOND.
WE DO A FIRST AND A SECOND OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO VOTE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA.
ALRIGHT, THAT PASSES FOUR TO ZERO, GOOD TO GO.
UH, NEXT ON THE ACTION ITEMS IS, UH, FOUR A 2 0, 2 5 DASH 180 1.
THIS IS A CONSIDERATION FOR APPROVAL.
OH, I'M SORRY, BACK UP
[5.A. Mayoral proclamation for Historic Preservation Month]
UH, THIS HAS BEEN THE ACTION ITEM NUMBER FIVE A.THIS IS THE MAYOR PROCLAMATION FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH.
I KNOW WE HAVE A SPECIAL GIFT TONIGHT.
UH, MAYOR PRO TEM TY WALSON, DISTRICT ONE CITY COUNCILMAN.
I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
THE MAYOR IS OUTTA TOWN, SO I WILL BE DOING THE PROCLAMATION TONIGHT.
SO BEFORE I START, I WANNA JUST, I THINK I KNOW THREE OR FOUR OF YOU COMMISSIONERS, BUT I APPRECIATE ALL THE WORK YOU DO.
I THINK, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING READY TO TALK ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT TO THE IDENTITY OF BERNIE.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE ROLE OF THIS COMMISSION IS MAKING SURE WE MAINTAIN THAT.
AND IT CONTINUES TO BE AN IMPORTANT PART WHEN WE DO SURVEYS FOR THE COMMUNITY, IS HOW DO WE MAINTAIN WHAT IS BERNIE? AND A BIG PART OF THAT IS THAT HISTORICAL CULTURE OF BERNIE.
AND THEN ALSO BECAUSE JUSTIN IS, UH, GOING AWAY, I WANNA THANK YOU FOR YOUR SURVEY.
YOU'VE DONE A LOT FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND YOU SHOULD BE PROUD AND I'M YEAH, HAPPY TO KNOW YOU.
WHEREAS THE NATIONAL TRUST FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION ESTABLISHED MAY AS NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH IN 1973 TO PROMOTE HISTORIC PLACES FOR THE PURPOSE OF INSTILLING NATIONAL AND COMMUNITY PRIDE, PROMOTING HERITAGE TOURISM, AND SHOWING THE SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION.
AND WHEREAS NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS INHERENTLY ECONOMICALLY, ENVIRONMENTALLY, AND SOCIALLY SUSTAINABLE, FOSTERING A CULTURE OF REUSE AND MAXIMIZING THE LIFECYCLE OF ALL RESOURCES THROUGH CONSERVATION.
AND WHEREAS NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS RELEVANT FOR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE NATION, BOTH URBAN AND RURAL, AND FOR AMERICANS OF ALL AGES, ALL WALKS OF LIFE AND ALL ETHNIC BACKGROUNDS.
AND WHEREAS IT IS IMPORTANT TO CELEBRATE THE ROLE OF HISTORY IN OUR LIVES AND THE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE BY DEDICATED INDIVIDUALS IN HELPING TO PRESERVE THE HERITAGE THAT HAS SHAPED US AS PEOPLE.
AND WHEREAS THE CITY OF BERNIE'S PLANNING DEPARTMENT, PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT, PATRICK HEATH, PUBLIC LIBRARY, HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION, AND OTHER VOLUNTEERS ARE JOINING FORCES TO PROMOTE THE IMPORTANCE OF PRESERVING HISTORICAL PLACES DURING NATIONAL PRESERVATION MONTH 2025.
[00:05:01]
NOW, THEREFORE, I, TY WALLACE AND MAYOR PRO TIMM OF BERNIE ACTING ON BEHALF OF FRANK RICHIE, MAYOR OF BERNIE, DO HEREBY PROCLAIM MAY, 2025 AS NATIONAL PRESERVATION MONTH, AND CALL UPON THE PEOPLE OF BERNIE TO JOIN THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS ACROSS THE NATION IN RECOGNIZING AND CELEBRATING IN THIS SPECIAL OBSERVANCE NATIONAL HISTORIC PRESERVATION MONTH, AND CALL UPON THE PEOPLE OF BERNIE TO JOIN THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES AND RECOGNIZING AND CELEBRATING IN THIS SPECIAL OBSERVANCE.I WANNA GET A QUICK, QUICK PICTURE.
IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE THE PRESERVATION OF THE CITY OF BERNIE.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WE DO WORK HARD HERE FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE TO PRESERVE THESE BEAUTIFUL BUILDINGS HERE ON MAIN STREET AND OTHER BUILDINGS ON, UH, IN THE CITY OF BERNIE.
SO IT, IT'S GREAT TO BE RECOGNIZED FOR THE, HAD THE HISTORICAL PRESERVATION MONTH.
SO I KNOW OVER THE YEARS WE'VE HAD SOME FUN ACTIVITIES.
I KNOW MR. BARWICK'S BEEN PART OF THOSE OVER THE YEARS AND DIFFERENT SCAVENGER HUNTS.
THOSE ARE ALWAYS FUN BACK IN THE DAY OF, UH, GETTING PEOPLE OUT IN THE COMMUNITY TO LOOK AT THOSE BUILDINGS AND JUST IDENTIFY THOSE CREATIVITY ASPECTS OF ALL THE BUILDINGS THAT WE HAVE ON MAIN STREET ESPECIALLY.
SO THANKS FOR THAT TOO, PAUL, BACK IN THE DAYS.
[5.B. Resignation of Justin Boerner from the Historic Landmark Commission (served on HLC since 2009)]
AGENDA, WE DO HAVE, UH, FIVE B.I DON'T KNOW WHO'S DOING THIS, BUT, UM, UNFORTUNATELY I STEPPING DOWN FROM THIS HISTORIC MAN, LANDMARK COMMISSION.
SO, UM, BEEN A PART OF THIS FOR 16 YEARS.
I REALLY HAVE THOROUGHLY ENJOYED IT.
EVERYBODY'S ALWAYS HELPED OUT AND PUTTING THESE PACKETS TOGETHER AND ALWAYS ANSWERING QUESTIONS.
UM, YOU KNOW, I GUESS BEEN THROUGH SEVERAL MAYORS AND THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN SO HELPFUL AND, UH, COMMISSIONERS AND COUNCIL MEMBERS AS WELL.
SO REALLY HAVE ENJOYED OVER THE YEARS.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, LOVE THIS TOWN GROWING UP HERE QUITE UP FOR QUITE A WHILE.
AND I THINK IT'S JUST WONDERFUL THAT WE DO HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO BE ON THIS COMMISSION TO PRESERVE THE CITY OF BURN THESE BEAUTIFUL BUILDINGS WE DO HAVE.
AND HOPEFULLY THEY CONTINUE, UH, BEING PRESERVED FOR FUTURE PEOPLE.
SO I SURE APPRECIATE ALL THIS AS WELL.
SO THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU'VE DONE.
WE, UH, WE APPRECIATE IT ALSO ON BEHALF OF THE CITY.
UH, AND I JUST LIKE TO ECHO, UH, MAYOR PRO TEMS WORDS.
UH, I APPRECIATE YOUR SERVICE, UH, TO HONOR YOUR SERVICE.
WE GOT YOU A LITTLE, UH, GIFT GOING AWAY, UH, FOR YOU.
HEATHER WILL PRESENT THAT, ROCK THAT UP FOR YOU OR CHRIS WILL
UM, BUT WE APPRECIATE, UH, THE 16 YEARS THAT YOU'VE PUT IN.
YOU'VE BEEN WONDERFUL TO WORK WITH, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
AND MR. BARWICK WOULD LIKE TO SAY A FEW THINGS.
SO LET ME COME DOWN THERE FOR A PICTURE.
TISSUE PAPER AND BAGS PRESENTS, SO JUSTIN.
YEAH, SO I WAS THE STAFF LIAISON FOR THE LANDMARK COMMISSION STARTING IN 2007, SO SERVED ON IT FOR 10 YEARS AND, UH, I THINK I'VE KNOWN JUSTIN FOR EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, YOU KNOW, 32 YEARS.
PETER'S WAS YOU AND YOUR WIFE AND MOTHER AND FATHER.
AND SO IT'S, IT'S BEEN A PRIVILEGE, YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH YOU.
UH, YEAH, YOU HAD BEEN 16 YEARS AS A, YOU KNOW, AN HLC MEMBER.
UH, I THINK YOU WERE, UH, THE THIRD CHAIR FOR THE LANDMARK COMMISSION WAS THERE JUST PHILLIP BELL AND ADAM AND YOU MM-HMM
SO YEAH, YOU DIDN'T BEAT IN FILL THE BES 20 YEAR TENURE OR WHATEVER THAT NUMBER WAS.
YEAH, THAT IS, THAT IS, UH, ALWAYS HAD A LOT OF FUN.
[00:10:01]
ENJOYED WORKING WITH THE LANDMARK COMMISSION.YOU KNOW, WE DID A NUMBER OF PROJECTS.
WE WORKED ON THE, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT SURVEY FRONT OF MY UTSA.
WE DID THE, UH, THE HISTORIC, UH, DESIGN GUIDELINES DURING THAT TIME.
WE WORKED ON THE A I A RU DANCE, TRIED TO EXPAND THE DISTRICT AT ONE TIME, AND THAT WAS INTERESTING WITH HELICOPTERS AND PEOPLE MARCHING ON CITY HALL.
SO THAT WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE.
YEAH, I, I'VE HAD TWO OR THREE OF THOSE.
UM, ANYWAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE BEEN VERY THOROUGH.
YOU KNOW, YOU, I, I DON'T THINK YOU MISSED PROBABLY MORE THAN A DOZEN MEETINGS.
YOU WERE, YOU WERE JUST ALWAYS HERE AND, UH, UM, ASK GOOD COMMON SENSE QUESTIONS.
TRY TO STRIKE THAT BALANCE BETWEEN PRESERVATION AND, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, WHICH IS ALWAYS GOOD.
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LOOKING TO COLLABORATE AND, AND TRYING TO FIND A, YOU KNOW, WORKABLE SOLUTION.
IT'S JUST, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY BLACK AND WHITE ALL THE TIME.
THERE'S WIGGLE ROOM AND WAYS TO MAKE THINGS, YOU KNOW, MAKE THINGS HAPPEN.
UM, SO WITH THAT, I WANNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE THANK YOU GIFT.
AND SO IT'S TIED INTO HISTORY, OF COURSE, RIGHT? UM, SO WHAT I HAVE HERE, I'M GONNA HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE ELEMENTS IN KENDALL COUNTY.
ONE WAS THE, THE BATTLE OF WALKERS CREEK.
SO WE HAVE GOT A HAT AND A MUG HERE FOR THE TEXAS RANGERS.
OH, NOT THE BASEBALL EXAM, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT
I THINK IT WAS, UH, UH, 2023 WAS THE 210 ANNIVERSARY OF THE TEXAS RANGERS.
JESUS, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS THAT, SO THE TEXAS RANGERS, THERE'S A BATTLE WALKERS CREEK HAPPENED HERE IN 1844, AND THAT'S WHEN THE TEXAS RANGERS FOUGHT YELLOW WOLF IN, IN HIS COMANCHE.
AND THAT'S WHEN, UH, THEY HAD JUST GOTTEN THE, THE PATTERSON FIVE SHOT, 36 CALIBER REVOLVER FROM COLT FROM THE TEXAS NAVY.
AND SO THAT CHANGED THE WHOLE TIDE AGAINST THE COMANCHE.
UM, IF YOU'VE EVER READ, UH, EMPIRE THE SUMMER MOON BY SAM GWYNN, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU REALIZE JUST HOW INTERESTING IT WAS BACK THEN AND HOW DIFFICULT IT WAS.
UM, SO THAT'S A VERY GOOD BOOK TO KIND OF TAP INTO.
IF YOU'RE ON A CRUISE SOMEWHERE AND YOU KNOW, NEED SOMETHING, YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO READ.
UM, SO I DID THAT JUST BECAUSE THE CHARACTER TRAITS OF THE TEXAS RANGERS, LEMME JUST READ 'EM TO YOU REAL QUICK.
THEY ARE COURAGE, DETERMINATION, DEDICATION, RESPECT, AND INTEGRITY.
SO I THINK YOU EMBODY ALL THAT.
AND THE LAST LITTLE GIFT IS A LOCAL GIFT.
SO THAT'S KENDALL COUNTY HISTORY.
SO THIS IS ADOLF TOPPER WINE, WHO WAS THE FAMOUS MARKSMAN WHO WORKED FOR WINCHESTER.
SO HE WOULD SHOOT THESE SLUGS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WOULD THROW 'EM UP AND HE'S GOT A 22, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, WINCHESTER PUMP, AND HE JUST KEEPS HITTING ME.
AND SO THIS WAS FROM HIS LODGE, OR HIS CABIN BEHIND LAS PPAS IN LEON SPRINGS FOUND IT.
BUT AT TOPPER WINE WAS BORN HERE, SO WHERE THE, UH, SALTIEST SUITE IS, THAT'S WHERE THE, UH, HIS DAD'S, UH, GUNSMITH SHOP WAS.
SO HE WAS BORN HERE AND THEN MOVED TO LEON SPRINGS AND THEN BECAME FAMOUS AND TRAVELED ALL OVER THE WORLD.
BUT ANYWAYS, JUST WANNA LEAVE YOU WITH A COUPLE BITS OF TEXAS HISTORY.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN A REAL TREAT, WORK WITH.
I MIGHT HAVE APPOINT MY SON FOR THAT, SO.
I'LL GIVE YOU THE EASTER AROUND SOMETIMES.
YOU ARE, THANK Y'ALL AGAIN, SORRY FOR THE DELAY HERE, BUT APPRECIATE THAT.
APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S PATIENCE.
UM, SO I THINK AFTER THIS MONTH, I THINK SALLY WILL BE TAKING IT OVER THE HELM, I THINK HERE.
[00:15:01]
DO A GREAT JOB AND LEADING THIS, UH, WONDERFUL COMMISSION.SO YOU'RE A HARD PERSON TO FOLLOW.
SO THANK Y'ALL AGAIN, APPRECIATE EVERYTHING.
[5.C. Consider a request for a certificate of appropriateness for a building permit for the structure located at 101 South Main Street, Suite C (Mainz Meat Market).]
HERE TO THE ACTUAL ACTION ITEMS. THIS IS FIVE C 2,000,025 DASH 20.THIS IS A CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE, APPROPRIATENESS FOR A BUILDING PERMIT FOR A STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 1 0 1 SOUTH MAIN STREET, SUITE CE.
I'M WITH THE, UH, CITY OF BERNIE'S PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
UH, AND I'LL BE PRESENTING THIS AND, UH, THE NEXT TWO ITEMS AFTER THIS TIME.
SO, UM, FOR THIS PROPERTY, UH, AS YOU STATED, IT IS FOR A COA FOR A BUILDING PERMIT.
UM, IT IS FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1 0 1 SOUTH MAINE.
UH, THE APPLICANT IS BEN ADAMS ON BEHALF OF MASON MANS.
UM, AND THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IT'S LOCATED HERE AT, UH, EXCUSE ME, SAN ANTONIO AND NORTH MAINE.
SO FOR TONIGHT, UM, THE USE OF THE BUILDING IS, UM, AFFECTING MAN'S MEAT MARKET, WHICH IS A PROPOSED NEW BUSINESS TO OPEN IN THE SITE.
THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 1967.
IT'S A 19TH CENTURY COMMERCIAL STYLE BUILDING ORIGINALLY FOR EBNER DRUG, UH, DRUGSTORE.
AND IT IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND THIS IS THE VIEW ALONG OLD SANTO, EXCUSE ME, NOT OLD SAN ANTONIO.
THIS IS A VIEW ALONG SAN ANTONIO.
UM, THIS IS THE REAR ALLEY AND THEN MAIN STREET'S OUT HERE.
SO THIS IS THE AREA THAT WE'LL BE DISCUSSING TONIGHT.
HERE'S THE STREET VIEW ALONG MAIN STREET BLACK RIFLE.
AND YOU CAN SEE IN BOTH OF THESE SLIDES THAT THIS BUILDING IS A TAN STUCCO.
UH, IT DOES HAVE SOME ARTICULATION ALONG THE FACADE WITH BLACK ELEMENTS, UH, ACCENT ELEMENTS AS WELL AS COLUMNS.
AND ON THE BOTTOM, IT'S HARD TO SEE ON THE SIDE, UH, BECAUSE THE VEHICLES ARE PARKED HERE, BUT THERE IS SOME LIMESTONE ALONG THE BOTTOM HALF, AND THAT IS MATCHED HERE ALONG MAIN STREET.
SO THE SCOPE OF WORK FOR THIS PROJECT REALLY COMES DOWN TO TWO THINGS.
SO WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT ONE AND THEN TWO.
THE FIRST ONE IS ABOUT REMODELING THE ENTRANCE ALONG EAST SAN ANTONIO AVENUE, UH, BASICALLY TO ENCLOSE THIS RECESSED PORTION AND REPLACE THE DOORS.
THE SECOND ONE IS THEY'RE LOOKING TO ADD A NEW BACK DOOR ALONG THE REAR OF THE BUILDING ON THE ALLEY.
AND SO THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE BLUE.
AND THE OTHER PART THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT FIRST IS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE YELLOW, EXCUSE ME.
SO AS I SAID, HERE'S THE FACADE WE'RE LOOKING AT.
UM, AND THIS IS THE RECESS PORTION.
IT'S CLOSER UP WHERE YOU CAN SEE IT.
AND THIS IS A, UH, A COPY OF THEIR PLANS AND WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO, ESSENTIALLY, THEY'RE LOOKING TO ENCLOSE THIS PORCH AREA AND JUST BRING THE WALL FLAT FOR, UH, ALONG WITH THIS UPPER PORTION, THEY WILL BE MAINTAINING THIS METAL ARCHED AWNING RIGHT HERE.
AND THERE'LL BE, UH, UH, NOT DOING ANY OTHER WORK ALONG THE FRONT.
YOU CAN SEE HERE YOU'RE NOT SEEING A LOT OF WORK.
THEY'RE MAINTAINING THE ARTICULATION, THE WINDOWS, THE LIMESTONE, ALL OF THAT WILL BE MAINTAINED.
IT'S JUST BRINGING OUT THAT PORTION, JUST ENCLOSING THE PORCH.
SO THIS IS OUR FLOOR PLAN, AND WE HAVE THE EXISTING, HERE.
AND THERE IS A DOOR HERE AND A DOOR HERE TO TWO DIFFERENT SUITES IN THIS BUILDING.
WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO, AS I SAID, IS JUST TO, UM, ENCLOSE THAT PORCH AREA.
SO NOW IT'LL BE AN INTERIOR SPACE TO REMOVE THOSE TWO DOORS.
SO THEY ARE NO LONGER EXTERIOR DOORS, AND THEY'RE OPEN TO EACH OTHER AND TO ENCLOSE IT WITH SOME DOUBLE EXTERIOR DOORS RIGHT HERE.
ALSO, HOW MANY TIMES, CAN I SAY DOOR IN ONE SENTENCE? CORRECT.
ALL RIGHT, SO HERE WE HAVE THE CLOSEUP.
THESE ARE THE DOORS THAT ARE BEING REMOVED.
AND THEN THE NEW EXTERIOR WALL WOULD BE RIGHT HERE, JUST EXTENDING THIS DOWN.
AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO USE THIS STYLE OF DOORS.
THIS IS, UM, A COPY OF WHAT THEY SUBMITTED WITH THEIR APPLICATION.
IT IS FOR THE, UM, COUNTY COURTHOUSE, UH, NEARBY.
AND WE HAVE SEEN THIS, WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT IN A SECOND, BUT YOU DO SEE THE STYLE OF DOOR THROUGHOUT THE, UM, HISTORIC DISTRICT, INCLUDING ACROSS THE STREET AT THE PIZZERIA.
[00:20:03]
ALRIGHT.ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FIRST PART OF THEIR SCOPE OF WORK BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE SECOND? UM, I MEAN, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK, I MEAN, ASSUMING IT'S GONNA BE ALL THE SAME, SIMILAR COLORS, NOTHING ELSE IS GONNA CHANGE.
WHATEVER'S GONNA BE, AND I GUESS THE WOOD, I GUESS THE METAL RAILING'S GONNA STAY THERE AS WELL.
I COULDN'T TELL FROM THE PLANS, BUT THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN INDICATED TO US.
BUT THE UM, UH, TENANT IS HERE AND HE'LL BE ABLE TO ANSWER ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS TOO.
SO HERE IS THE SECOND PART OF THE SCOPE.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ALLEY, THIS IS THE BACK.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE IS AN EXISTING BACK ENTRANCE DOOR RIGHT HERE.
THEY'RE LOOKING TO ADD A SECOND ONE RIGHT HERE THAT WILL BE FOR THIS SUITE, FOR THIS MEAT MARKET.
UM, THEY'RE PROPOSING EXACTLY VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT IS ALREADY BACK THERE.
UM, THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE BUSINESS AND HERE IS THE ELEVATION FROM THE PLANS.
SO OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE, UM, GIVES US EIGHT DIFFERENT, EXCUSE ME, SIX DIFFERENT POINTS THAT WE NEED TO CONSIDER WHEN LOOKING AT, UM, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS LIKE THIS.
SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS JUST A SUMMARY OF WHAT WAS PROVIDED IN YOUR A IS AND YOUR STAFF ANALYSIS.
UM, UH, AND WE'LL JUST RUN THROUGH THESE PRETTY QUICKLY.
SO WE ARE NOT ANTICIPATING THAT THIS WILL HAVE ANY EFFECT ON THE HISTORICAL, CULTURAL, OR ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTER OF THE AREA.
UM, THE DOORS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING ON THE SIDE IN THE REAR OF THE BUILDING ARE APPROPRIATE IN THE DISTRICT.
UM, AND EVEN THOUGH IT IS A DEPARTURE FROM THE EXISTING WOOD DOORS, AS I MENTIONED THESE DOORS, THE STYLE IS FOUND, UM, PRETTY PREVALENT ACROSS THE, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT, INCLUDING ACROSS THE STREET WHERE YOU SEE THEY DO HAVE A MIXTURE OF THE WOOD DOORS AND THEN THE STEEL DOORS.
UH, THIS IS A NON-CONTRIBUTING BUILDING, UM, AS WELL.
THAT'S SOMETHING TO POINT OUT.
AND SO OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE AND OUR GUIDELINES SAY THAT THE GUIDELINES CAN BE, UM, APPLIED A LITTLE MORE FLEXIBLY BECAUSE OF THAT.
UH, THE DOOR ADDITIONS WILL NOT MODIFY THE SCALE HEIGHT OR MASS OF THE BUILDING.
THERE'S NO OTHER CHANGES THAT ARE REALLY HAPPENING HERE.
IT'S A PRETTY MINOR RENOVATION.
UM, AND THE, AS I'VE ALREADY SAID SAID THE UH, DOORS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, AND APPROPRIATE.
SO TO SUMMARIZE THAT IN OUR KEY FINDINGS, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IS IN ALIGNMENT WITH OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE SECTION TWO 11 AND THREE 11.
AND IT DOES MEET THE HISTORIC DIS HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES.
SO BASED ON THAT ALIGNMENT, WE ARE RECOMMEND, WE AS IN STAFF, ARE RECOMMENDING THAT HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION APPROVE A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR A BUILDING PERMIT AT 1 0 1 SOUTH MAIN STREET.
AND WE DO HAVE SOME MOTIONS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND AS I STATED, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, THE APPLICANT IS HERE AS WELL.
APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH, BABY.
CERTAIN QUESTIONS OR LIKE TO HAVE THE APPLICANT COME UP AND STATE YOUR NAME.
MASON, HAVE SOME QUESTIONS HERE.
IT LOOKS LIKE, HELLO COMMISSIONERS, I'M MASON MINES.
AND UH, YOU ASKED A GREAT QUESTION ABOUT THE, UH, RAILING.
YEAH, UH, IT WILL BE REMOVED, BUT KEEPING A DA COMPLIANCY, UM, SO THERE WILL BE A SECTION OF RAILING THAT WILL REMAIN, BUT BECAUSE OF THE DOORS OPENING UP, THAT FIRST SECTION OF THE RAILING WILL BE REMOVED.
SO YOU CAN HAVE EASE OF ACCESS.
THAT WAS MY ONLY QUESTION TOO.
I'M ASSUMING IT'S GONNA BE PAINTING BLACK AS WELL, I'M ASSUMING ITSELF.
PAINTED BLACK AND IT'S JUST A LOT EASIER FOR CUSTOMERS TO COME IN AND EITHER GO RIGHT INTO BLACK RIFLE OR LEFT INTO THE MEAT MARKET.
I'M ASSUMING THE PAINT COLORS FOR THE NEW DOOR WILL BE THE SIMILAR, THE OTHER DOORS ANODIZED BLACK? YES, SIR.
ANY, ANY NEW LIGHTS GONNA BE INSTALLED OR ANYTHING ON THE EXTERIOR? NO, SIR.
ANYBODY HAVE THE QUESTIONS? THINK, OBVIOUSLY THE STUCCO IS GONNA STAY THE SAME, NOTHING ELSE IS GONNA CHANGE.
JUST ADDING THE TWO DOORS AND THE NEW DOOR WILL BE PROBABLY THE SAME COLOR AS THE OTHER DOOR THAT'S ALREADY THERE ON THE FLOOR.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? MM.
I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 2 0 2 5 DASH TWO ZERO.
CONSIDER A REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 1 0 1 SOUTH MAIN STREET, SUITE C FOR MAINS MEAT MARKET.
HAVE A FIRST AND A SECOND ON THE FLOOR.
UM, THIS OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO VOTE ON THIS ACTION ITEM.
[00:25:03]
ALRIGHT, YOU'RE GOOD TO GO.Y'ALL CAN GET MOVING AND ON THE NEW MEAT MARKET, LOOK FORWARD TO THAT.
UM, HAVE THE MEAT MARKET NEXT TO THE BLACK RIFLE COFFEE.
ALL WELL, I'LL BE HERE NEXT MONTH FOR, UH, OUR SIGNAGE.
[5.D. Consider a request for a demolition permit for the structure(s) located at 501 Hickman Street.]
NEXT ON THE AGENDA.UM, THIS IS, UH, 2 0 2 5 DASH 2 0 1.
THIS IS A CONSIDERATION FOR A DEMOLITION PERMIT FOR A STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 5 0 1 HICKMAN STREET.
AND THIS WILL BE IN A TWO THREE PARTS, I GUESS WE'LL OPEN IT UP FOR STAFF PRESENTATION, CLOSE IT FOR ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE HISTORICALLY MARKED COMMISSION ON THIS ACTUAL ACTION ITEM.
UM, AND THEN THE NEXT THING, WE'LL CLOSE THAT, UM, AFTER EVERYBODY DISCUSSES THAT FROM THE AUDIENCE.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL OPEN IT BACK UP FOR COMMISSIONERS TO TALK ABOUT THE ACTUAL ACTION ITEM.
ALRIGHT, SO, UM, THIS IS FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 5 0 1 HICKMAN STREET.
IT IS FOR A DEMOLITION PERMIT.
UM, THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IT IS OLDER THAN 50 YEARS, WHICH IS WHY WE ARE HERE TONIGHT.
THE USE OF THE PROPERTY IS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
IT'S RANCH STYLE, APPROXIMATELY 900 SQUARE FEET WITH A SINGLE CAR GARAGE AND AN ACCESSORY SHRED, UH, SHED.
AND HERE WE HAVE SOME MORE VIEWS ALONG THE SIDE AND THE REAR AND THE SHED.
SO PER OUR REQUIREMENT, WE DID SEND PUBLIC NOTICE TO EVERY PROPERTY OWNER WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE SITE.
IT WAS 51 NOTICES THAT WERE SENT, UM, INCLUDING IN YOUR PACKET WERE SEVEN WRITTEN RESPONSES, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE DEMOLITION.
UM, ABOUT AN HOUR AGO WE RECEIVED A EMAIL WITH, UM, ANOTHER RESPONSE.
UH, IT WAS NEITHER FOR OR AGAINST IT, THEY JUST WANTED MORE INFORMATION.
UM, STAFF HAS DETERMINED THAT THIS PROPERTY IS NOT A HISTORIC LANDMARK.
IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY ARCHITECTURAL CULTURAL OR EDUCATIONAL VALUE.
AND BASED ON THAT, UM, AND, AND ITS ALIGNMENT WITH THE UDC SECTION TWO POINT 11, B 10 DEMOLITION OF HISTORIC STRUCTURES, STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION APPROVE A DEMOLITION PERMIT REQUEST AT 5 0 1 HICKMAN STREET WITH THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION THAT THE CHAIN LINK FENCE ON THE PROPERTY IS REMOVED AS PART OF THE DEMOLITION.
ALRIGHT, ANYTHING ELSE? NO, SIR.
WE'LL, UH, OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS IF ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION ON THIS ACTION ITEM FOR 5 0 1 HICKMAN STREET.
UM, IN FAVOR OR NOT IN FAVOR OF THE ACTUAL DEMOLITION PERMIT OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO COME UP AT THIS TIME.
SEEING NO MOVEMENT, NOBODY'S UP COMING UP.
SO WE'LL OPEN IT BACK UP, UH, FOR THE COMMISSIONERS TO, UH, DISCUSS AND, UH, HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS ACTION ITEM? I DON'T KNOW, WERE YOU ABLE TO? I, YEAH, SO THERE WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION ON DAYS, BUT I DID GO BY AND SO I WASN'T ABLE TO SEE INSIDE THE HOUSE OTHER THAN JUST KIND OF PEEKING AROUND.
UM, BUT WHAT YOU SAW IN THE PICTURES IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
THERE'S NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL ABOUT IT OR HISTORICAL ABOUT IT.
IT'S JUST OLDER THAN 50 YEARS.
YEAH, JUST DRIVING BY IT MYSELF.
IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, A TYPICAL ALUMINUM WINDOWS.
UH, NOTHING HISTORIC THERE IF THOSE WINDOWS JUST A BRICK SIDING.
LOOKS LIKE I DIDN'T GET OUTTA THE VEHICLE AND LOOK A LITTLE CLOSER, BUT, UM, IT JUST LOOKS LIKE A TYPICAL HOUSE FOR THE 1960S.
SO, UM, YEAH, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING HISTORIC THERE.
WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY ELSE IS DRIVEN BY IT OR TAKE A LOOK AT IT A LITTLE BIT MORE I HAVE A CHANCE TO.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS? NOT ON THIS ONE.
AWFULLY LOOKING FOR A MOTION ON THE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE ITEM 2 0 2 5 DASH 2 0 1 TO CONSIDER A REQUEST FOR DEMOLITION PERMIT FOR THE STRUCTURES LOCATED AT 5 0 1 HICKMAN STREET WITH THE STIPULATION THAT THE CHAIN LINK FENCE ALSO BE REMOVED.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A FIRST AND A SECOND ON THE FLOOR OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO VOTE AT THIS TIME.
ALRIGHT, THAT PASSES FOUR TO ZERO.
THEY CAN MOVE FORWARD AND MOVE FORWARD TO THAT PROJECT.
[5.E. Consider a request for a certificate of appropriateness for a sign located at 302 East Blanco Road. (Happy Nails)]
NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS FIVE E 2 0 2 5 DASH 2 0 6.THIS IS A CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS OF A SIGN LOCATED AT 3 0 2 EAST BLANCO.
SO, AS YOU STATED, THIS IS AN APPLICATION FOR A SIGN COA.
[00:30:01]
LOCATED HERE AT THE INTERSECTION OF EAST BLANCO AND HILLTOP DRIVE.I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WHILE HILLTOP DRIVE IS PUBLIC, UM, IT'S ONLY PUBLIC, A PUBLIC ROAD FOR A PORTION, AND THEN IT TURNS INTO A PRIVATE DRIVE SHORTLY AFTER THIS PROPERTY.
SO ACTUALLY WHERE IT SAYS HILLTOP DRIVE HERE IS A, UH, PRIVATE DRIVE TO THE NURSING HOME THAT'S BACK HERE.
UM, SO THE PRI EXCUSE ME, THE PUBLIC STREET DOES END ABOUT RIGHT HERE.
THIS BUILDING, UM, IS A CIRCA 1960 COMMERCIAL BUILDING STYLE, UH, COMMERCIAL BUILDING AND IT'S KIND OF A, UM, A HODGEPODGE OF DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURAL STYLES.
IT HAS THE GERMAN VERNACULAR STYLE CRAFTSMEN AND QUEEN ALLEN STYLE AND IT IS A LOW CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE INTO, IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
HERE IS A PHOTO OF THE SIGN AS IT EXISTS TODAY.
IT DOES MEET MANY OF THE GUIDELINE REQUIREMENTS, UH, SUCH THAT IT IS RECTANGULAR.
IT'S ABOUT TWO BY THREE IT'S METAL.
IT HAS TWO FONTS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE FOR THE ERA OF THE BUILDING AND IT IS A NON LITT SIGN.
HOWEVER, IT DOESN'T MEET TWO OF OUR HISTORIC, UH, DISTRICT GUIDELINES REQUIREMENTS, UM, EXCUSE ME, THAT IT'S MORE THAN FOUR COLORS AND THAT IT HAS NON EARTH TONES.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE COPY OF THE SIGN HERE, YOU CAN SEE IT'S LIKE A PINK THAT TURNS INTO AN OMBRE BLUE AND BACK.
SO IT DOES HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT COLOR VARIATIONS IN IT.
UH, HOWEVER THAT BEING SAID, I DO WANNA POINT OUT WHERE THE SIGN IS.
SO IT'S LOCATED HERE ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
IT IS ATTACHED TO THE BUILDING.
SO IT IS NOT VISIBLE FROM EAST BLANCO AT ALL.
IT IS ONLY VISIBLE TO HILLTOP STREET.
UM, WHICH AS I STATED, TURNS INTO A PRIVATE DRIVE ABOUT RIGHT HERE.
SO, UM, OUR KEY FINDINGS ARE THAT THE SIGN MEETS THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODES CHAPTER NINE SIGN REGULATIONS AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES EXCEPT FOR THE SIGN COLORS.
HOWEVER, BECAUSE THE SIGN IS NOT VISIBLE FROM EAST BLANCO AND IT IS A LOW CONTRIBUTING BUILDING, UH, THE INTENT OF THE HISTORIC GUIDELINES ARE UPHELD AND FLEXIBILITY IN THEIR APPLICATION IS APPROPRIATE IN THIS CASE WITH THAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THIS CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
YES, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT THE SIGN ITSELF, THE COLORS, UM, I KNOW I'VE DRIVEN BY IT.
UM, YEAH, YOU REALLY CAN'T SEE IT FROM BLANCO REALLY, UM, AT ALL.
YEAH, JUST MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE, THE REQUEST HERE.
SO IT IS IN THE HISTORIC LANDMARKS PURVIEW BECAUSE IT'S IN THE HISTORIC MILE.
RIGHT? BUT IT'S OFF MAIN STREET AND IT'S OFF BLANCO BLANCO BY HALF A BLOCK LEADING INTO A PRIVATE DRIVE.
BUT IT STILL FALLS UNDERNEATH OUR PURVIEW OF SIGN GUIDELINES.
SO WHAT THEY'RE ASKING IS FOR AN EXCEPTION BECAUSE THEY DON'T FEEL THAT THEY'RE AS VISIBLE MM-HMM
BUT IT'S STILL AN EXCEPTION TO THE GUIDELINES.
UH, IT IS ALLOWED TO APPLY THE GUIDELINES WITH FLEXIBILITY GIVEN THE CONTEXT OF THE PROJECT AND SITE.
SO IT IS WITHIN YOUR RIGHT TO APPROVE IT TONIGHT.
UM, IT WOULD JUST BE, IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE AN EXCEPTION PER SE.
IT WOULD JUST BE A COX SO WE CAN CONSIDER IT 'CAUSE IT'S A LOW IMPACT SITE.
I DUNNO IF THE APPLICANT'S HERE, IF I HAD ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT.
IS THE SIGN, UM, CORRELATING WITH THEIR LOGO OR? SO, UH, THE HAPPY NAILS BY TAMMY IS, HAS A REAR ENTRANCE BACK HERE.
THE MAIN USE OF THE SITE IS, UM, BAREFOOT HAIR STUDIO I BELIEVE.
UM, AND SO THEY HAVE THEIR MAIN SIGNAGE HERE ON BLANCO AND THAT IS WHAT'S VISIBLE.
UM, HAPPY NAILS BY TAMMY IS ONLY ACCESSIBLE FROM THE SIDE.
THIS IS THE ONLY SIGN THEY HAVE.
IT'S A SINGLE, UH, AESTHETICIAN OPERATION.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S A MONUMENT SIGN OUT FRONT FOR ANY OF THAT HAPPY NAILS OUT THERE AT ALL.
AND I THINK THERE'S A MAYBE A TEMPORARY SIGN OR A LITTLE A BANNER.
YEAH, THERE'S THIS BANNER HERE RIGHT NOW.
SIDEWALK SIGN OR SOMETHING UP THERE, BUT YEAH.
AND BECAUSE BANNER SIGNS ARE TEMPORARY, THEY'RE ONLY ALLOWED FOR 30 DAYS.
IT DOESN'T COME TO THIS COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL.
AND AGAIN, WE'RE NOT MAKING EXCEPTION OR ANYTHING, IT'S JUST OFF KIND OF THE BEATEN PATH.
BUT AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COLORS OR SIGNS, THIS IS OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
[00:35:02]
NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.ANYBODY WANNA MAKE A MOTION? UH, I MOVE THAT, UH, WE ACCEPT THE CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS FOR THE SIGN AT 3 0 2 EAST BLANCO ROAD.
THAT WOULD BE ACTION ITEM 2025 DASH 2 0 6.
HAVE A FIRST ON THE FLOOR AND A SECOND OPPORTUNITY FOR EVERYBODY TO VOTE FOR THIS ACTION ITEM.
ALRIGHT, THAT PASSES FOUR TO ZERO AS WELL.
[6. COMMENTS FROM COMMISSION/LEGAL COUNSEL/STAFF – No discussion or action may take place.]
RIGHT.UM, THIS IS ACTION ITEM NUMBER SIX.
THIS IS, UH, COMMENTS FROM STAFF OR I DON'T THINK WE HAVE LEGAL HERE TONIGHT.
SO HER OTHER STAFF MEMBERS? WE DO HAVE A NEW COUNSELOR.
I'M A RELATIVELY NEW ATTORNEY WITH THE TOWS LAW FIRM.
WELL THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND HOPEFULLY WE DIDN'T SCREW THIS UP TONIGHT OR GET ANY KIND OF TROUBLE, SO.
ALL RIGHT, NATHAN, YOU HAVE ANYTHING TONIGHT? NOPE.
ANYBODY ELSE? ACTUALLY WE DO HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT.
UM, HEATHER
THIS WILL BE HER LAST HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION AS WELL.
SHE'S ACCEPTED A NEW POSITION.
DO YOU WANNA TELL THEM ABOUT IT? UH, YES.
SO I HAVE ACCEPTED A NEW POSITION, UH, WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AS THE UM, EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT TO THE CHIEF AND ASSISTANT CHIEFS THERE.
SO I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS OPPORTUNITY.
WE'LL MISS YOU GUYS VERY MUCH.
IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE AND YEAH, I'LL SEE YOU, Y'ALL AROUND TOWN FOR SURE.
IT'D BE A DIFFERENT, UH, DIFFERENT VIEW AND DIFFERENT STUFF TO DO
SO THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP ALL THE TIME AND ALWAYS BEING PROMPTS AND SENDING US TEXT MESSAGES.
I ALWAYS APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYBODY ELSE DOES TOO, SO.
SO
AND, UM, Y'ALL KNOW WHERE TO FIND ME IF YOU NEED SOMETHING, BUT, UM, ALWAYS HERE TO HELP OUT.
SO