* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [1. CALL TO ORDER – 6:00 PM] [00:00:03] I AM TIM VAN WOLF AND I'M HERE WITH MY COLLEAGUES THIS EVENING FOR THE REGULAR MONTHLY MEETING OF THE PLANNING AND SONY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF BERNIE. THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING AND FOR YOUR ATTENDANCE THIS EVENING. WE'LL BEGIN WITH THE PLEDGES OF ALLEGIANCE, SO PLEASE RISE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY OF JUSTICE. FOR NOW, PLEASE FACE THE TEXAS FLAG, HONOR THE TEXAS FLAG BY PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO BE THE TEXAS ONE STATE UNDER GOD ONE. AND AND NOW IF YOU PLEASE JOIN ME FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE. THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALRIGHT, ANY [2. CONFLICTS OF INTEREST] CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AMONG THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING? COMMISSIONER KELLER? YES, SIR. I HAVE A CONFLICT ON, UH, REGULAR AGENDA ITEM A THAT I WILL ABSTAIN FROM VOTING ON. OKAY. FIVE ITEM FIVE A. SO LET THE RECORD REFLECT YES, SIR. UM, ALSO IN AN EFFORT OF TRANSPARENCY ON FIVE C I'M A MEMBER OF THAT CONGREGATION, THAT CHURCH, BUT I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH, UH, CITY ATTORNEY AND THERE'S NO NEED FOR ME TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM THAT. SO I WILL BE VOTING ON THAT AGENDA. OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU FOR THE TRANSPARENCY ON FIVE C AND FOR RECUSING YOURSELF ON FIVE A. ANY OTHER CONFLICTS OF INTEREST? OKAY, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, MR. HOWELL? NO CONFLICT, BUT AGENDA ITEM FIVE C I'M A PROUD MEMBER OF THE BRIDGE FELLOWSHIP. ALRIGHT. AS WELL. GOOD. ALRIGHT, WELL THAT'S GOOD. WE'VE GOT SOME CHURCH GOERS AMONG THIS COMMISSION. THAT'S ALWAYS A GOOD THING. . UM, WE'VE GOT A LOT [3. PUBLIC COMMENTS: This is the opportunity for visitors and guests to address the Planning and Zoning Commission on any issue. The Planning and Zoning Commission may not discuss any presented issue, nor may any action be taken on any issue at this time. (Attorney General opinion – JC-0169)] OF FOLKS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK THIS EVENING, SO WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST IS EVERYONE HERE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR THREE MINUTES DURING PUBLIC COMMENTS AND ALSO ENTITLED TO THEIR THREE MINUTES DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING ON ITEM FIVE A, WHICH IS MOST EVERYTHING EVERYONE HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON IN ORDER TO BE AS EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE. WE'RE STILL GONNA GIVE EVERYONE THREE MINUTES, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT MAYBE WE PUSH THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION DOWN BELOW THE STAFF PRESENTATION ON FIVE A AND THEN AFTER THE STAFF PRESENTATION ON FIVE A, WE'LL SUSPEND CONSIDERATION OF THAT MATTER IN THE PUBLIC HEARING, MOVE TO PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THEN MOVE BACK TO THE PUBLIC HEARING IF, IF YOU ALL WILL CONCUR WITH THAT, I THINK THAT'LL MAKE IT THE MOST EFFICIENT FOR US THIS EVENING. ALL RIGHT, [A. HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST TO RATIFY THE ZONING DESIGNATION OF C3 - SICO (COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL WITHIN THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT), AS DETERMINED THROUGH LEGAL REVIEW OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE, FOR AN APPROXIMATELY 5.155-ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED ON IH-10 WEST. THIS TRACT, KNOWN AS THE IH-10 “SURPLUS NORTH” TRACT, ADJOINS THE FUTURE BUC-EE’S DEVELOPMENT AT 33375 IH-10 WEST.] THEN LET'S MOVE RIGHT TO ITEM FIVE A. WE'LL PICK UP THE CONSENT AGENDA LATER. UH, BELIEVE THAT'S, UH, DIRECTOR CRANE YOUR PRESENTATION THIS EVENING. ITEM FIVE A FOR US, WHICH IS TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST TO RATIFY THE ZONING DESIGNATION OF C3 DASH SICO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL WITHIN THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT, AS DETERMINED THROUGH LEGAL REVIEW OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR AN APPROXIMATELY 5.155 ACRE PROPERTY LOCATED IN IH 10 WEST. THIS TRACK KNOWN AS THE IH 10 SURPLUS NORTH TRACK ADJOINING THE FUTURE BUCKYS DEVELOPMENT AT 3 3 3 7 5 IH 10 WEST. MR. CRANE FLOOR IS ALL YOURS. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION? YES, PLEASE. YEP. MR. KELLER WILL RECUSE HIMSELF AND REMOVE HIMSELF FROM THE DIES AND HE'LL BE IN THE AUDIENCE FOR THE DURATION OF THIS PRESENTATION AND DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. UH, I THINK IT'S I IMPORTANT AS WE START THIS DISCUSSION. OBVIOUSLY IT HAS A LOT OF COMMUNITY INTEREST THAT WE TALK ABOUT, UH, WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT AND WHAT OUR PURVIEW IS THIS EVENING. UH, AS YOU'RE AWARE, UH, THE SITE IS AT 3 3 3 7 5, UH, IH 10 WEST. UH, THE TOTAL SITE IS ALMOST 30 ACRES, AND FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS DISCUSSION, I'M GOING TO SPLIT IT INTO, DO TWO DIFFERENT SITES. I'M GONNA CALL IT SITE A AND SITE B. SITE A IS 24.69 ACRES. UH, THE CURRENT ZONING IS C3 ON THAT PARCEL. UH, THAT IS WHERE THE CONVENIENCE STORE, UH, WILL BE LOCATED. THE SITE B, WHICH IS UNDER CONSIDERATION TONIGHT, IS 5.15 ACRES, UH, WAS PURCHASED IN 2023 AND 2025, AND IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL, AND THAT'S THE ONE WE'LL BE DISCUSSING, ADAM, AT THIS EVENING. AS YOU KNOW, ALL PROPERTIES REQUIRED TO HAVE ZONING AND WHEN, WHEN ZONING IS CHANGED, IT DOES REQUIRE A NOTIFICATION OF THE PROPERTY OWNER SO THEY CAN BE PART OF THAT PROCESS. UH, SITE A, THE ZONING, UH, WAS DESIGNATED B TWO IN 2005. SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE DECISION AND B TWO ALLOWED A GAS STATION AS A PERMITTED USE. SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE DECISION TO ALLOW A CONVENIENCE STORE, A GAS STATION AT THIS LOCATION WAS MADE IN MAY OF 2005 WHEN UPON ANNEXATION IT WAS OWNED B TWO IN JULY, 2021 AS PART OF [00:05:01] OUR UDC UPDATE. UH, THE PROPERTY WAS REASSIGNED THE C3 COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL DISTRICT. UH, NOW WE GO TO SITE B. SITE B, UH, THIS IS PROPERTY THAT WAS FORMERLY OWNED BY TXDOT, UH, IN JUNE, 2020, UH, ABOUT A YEAR PRIOR TO, UH, THE UDC UPDATE. UH, THE COUNCIL UPON A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ON THE PROPERTY B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL. UM, THE TEX HOT WAS THE APPLICANT, UH, AT THE TIME, AND AS PART OF OUR UDC UPDATE IN 2021, IT WAS INADVERTENTLY, UH, DID NOT ASSIGN A ZONING DISTRICT TO THE SITE. UH, THE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RECORDS, THE, UH, MAP WAS BASED ON PARCEL NUMBERS AND THE CHANGES WERE BASED ON PARCEL NUMBERS BECAUSE THE PROPERTY, UH, WAS OWNED BY TEXDOT, IT DID NOT HAVE A PROPERTY NUMBER, PROPERTY ID NUMBER, UH, THEREFORE IT WASN'T PART OF THE OVERALL CITYWIDE ZONING. AS A RESULT, THE PROPERTY RETAINS ITS B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICT DESIGNATION. OKAY, SO WHY ARE WE HERE TONIGHT? WELL, WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO CORRECT AN ERROR AND OMISSION THAT WAS DONE IN 2021. UH, WE'RE BASICALLY HERE TO, UH, DECIDE, UH, WHAT ZONING DISTRICT MOST IS MOST FAMILIAR WITH AND CONSISTENT WITH B TWO, UH, TO ASSIGN TO THIS PROPERTY OUT OF OUR NEW UDC. AS I MENTIONED, B TWO IS RETIRED AND IT'S NO LONGER IN USE. SO WE HAVE TO IDENTIFY THE NEW ZONING DISTRICT. UH, THIS DOES NOT IMPACT SITE A. THIS DOES NOT IMPACT THE DECISION OF WHETHER OR NOT, UH, BUCKYS IS COMING. UH, IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON, UH, SITE PLANNING, ON DESIGN, ON LIGHTING, ON SIGNAGE OR ANYTHING LIKE THIS. THE, THE QUESTION BEFORE THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING IS WHAT IS THE APPROPRIATE ZONING DISTRICT, UH, FOR THIS SITE B, THE 5.15 ACRES, UH, HOW DO WE ARRIVE TO C3? UH, WHICH IS WHAT STAFF IS RECOMMENDING? FIRST WE LOOKED AT OUR GENERAL PLAN. IT'S AUTO ORIENTED LAND USE IS THE LAND USE DESIGNATION. UH, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE ZONING, UH, ALONG IH 10, THE ZONING IS FOR COMMERCIAL IS C3 OR C FOUR. UM, WE DO HAVE FOUR COMMERCIAL ZONING DISTRICTS, C ONE, C TWO, C3, AND C FOUR. UH, C ONE IS, UH, A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL. UH, THINGS LIKE BAKE BAKERY, LORRAINE, UH, SMALL OFFICE, GARDEN OFFICE. THAT'S THE INTENT OF THE C ONE, C3 AND C FOUR ARE MORE FOR LARGE SCALE, UH, COMMERCIAL USES. THE, UH, PERMITTED USES AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS IS, AND IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, UH, THE B TWO AND THE C3 C FOUR, WE BELIEVE B TWO IS CONSISTENT WITH C3 AND C FOUR, AND IT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH C ONE AND C TWO. AND I THINK, UH, I THINK THAT IS EMPHASIZED, UH, BY GOING TO A PROPERTY THAT WAS B TWO RIGHT ADJACENT BECAME C3. SO I THINK THAT SUPPORTS THAT ALSO. OKAY. UH, FINDINGS, WE BELIEVE, UH, C3 DISTRICT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE AUTO ORIENTED LAND USE DESIGNATION AND ALIGNS WITH THE INTENT OF THE PERMITTED USES AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OF THE RETIRED B TWO DISTRICT. UH, IT'LL RESULT IN COMPATIBLE LAND USE RELATIONSHIPS, UH, IN THE AREA, AND, UH, IT WAS USED TO REPLACE THE RETIRED B TWO DISTRICT ON SURROUNDING PROPERTIES. NOW, BEFORE I CONCLUDE, JUST A REMINDER, WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS WHAT'S THE APPROPRIATE ZONING ON THE, THE PROPERTY, UH, WHETHER IT BE C3 C FOUR, OR C ONE C TWO. UH, AND WITH THAT I'LL TURN SOME TIME OVER TO M**K. UH, HE HAS A COUPLE THINGS HE'D LIKE TO ADD. MR. MCCAIN? YEAH, THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN. UH, I JUST THOUGHT I'D GIVE YOU A COUPLE OF BACKGROUND COMMENTS BECAUSE THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE'VE HAD HAPPEN IN BERNIE BEFORE THAT I REMEMBER. UH, DURING MY CAREER AS A ZONING ATTORNEY, I'VE SEEN IT PROBABLY HALF A DOZEN TIMES IN OTHER CITIES WHERE YOU HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE ZONING, UH, TEXTUAL CHANGE IN YOUR ORDINANCE LIKE WE DID IN, IN 21 WHEN WE ADOPTED THE UDC. AND THESE MISTAKES HAPPEN WHERE SOMETHING IS NOT SHOWN ON THE MAP OR SOMETHING'S LEFT OFF OF A MAP. THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE. UH, THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE. IT IS NOT A ZONE CHANGE AT ALL. UH, AND I WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS, AND I THINK THE COMMISSION PRETTY MUCH UNDERSTANDS EVERY INCH OF PROPERTY IN BERNIE IS ZONED. THERE IS NO PROPERTY THAT HAS NO ZONING. IT CAN'T EXIST. IT'S UNDER STATE LAW. WE HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE [00:10:02] THAT INCLUDES PROPERTY UNDERNEATH ROADWAYS THAT HAS A ZONING DESIGNATION TODAY. IF THE ROADWAY CHANGES AND IS ABANDONED, THAT PROPERTY HAS ZONING TODAY IF IT WERE TO DEVELOP. UH, SO THIS PROPERTY IS ZONED NOW. WE JUST ARE CORRECTING THE MAP TO SHOW THE CORRECT COMMERCIAL ZONING THAT'S ATTRIBUTABLE TO WHAT WAS A B TWO DISTRICT. UH, SO THAT'S REALLY YOUR ONLY DECISION TONIGHT IS TO IDENTIFY WHETHER THE STAFF'S EVALUATION FITS THE B TWO, UH, PRIOR B TWO, UH, DISTRICT RULES AND USES, OR IF ANOTHER COMMERCIAL DISTRICT DOES, THE APPLICANT CAN MOVE FORWARD TODAY AND GET THEIR PERMITS UNDER B TWO. THIS IS TO CORRECT THE MAP. SO IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS DURING THE PROGRAM, I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER 'EM AS WE GO. UH, THIS IS THE TOOL THAT'S AVAILABLE TO US TO FIX THE MAP AND TO DO THAT, AS YOU KNOW, UNDER STATE LAW, THERE MUST BE AN ORDINANCE TO CORRECT ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE ZONING MAP, AND THAT ORDINANCE HAS TO HAVE YOUR RECOMMENDATION BEFORE IT CAN BE CONSIDERED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT. OKAY, THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? I CAN AN ANSWER, SIR. WELL, I'VE JUST GOT ONE FOR MR. MCCAMEY. 'CAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, BERNIE, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HAS NEVER FACED THIS TYPE OF SITUATION BEFORE. AND I CAN TELL YOU, UM, IN MY NEARLY 10 YEARS OF DOING THIS FOUR YEARS AS A SAN ANTONIO CITY COUNCILMAN AND NOW NEARLY SIX YEARS CHAIRING THIS BODY, I'VE NEVER SEEN A PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OR EVEN A CITY COUNCIL ASKED TO RATIFY ANYTHING. NOW, THERE'S NO PROVISION IN OUR UDC FOR A RATIFICATION PROCESS. SO I PRESUME YOU'RE BASING YOUR LEGAL OPINION ON CASE LAW. IS THERE A SUMMATION OF THAT CASE LAW YOU COULD GIVE US THIS EVENING THAT WOULD SORT OF EDUCATE THOSE OF US ON THIS COMMISSION WHO AREN'T LAWYERS ABOUT HOW THIS, HOW THIS PROCESS GETS HANDLED IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS? WELL, I, I'VE PROVIDED A MEMO, I THINK, UH, THAT TALKS ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS. UH, THERE REALLY ISN'T A DISPUTED CASE BECAUSE IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISION AND THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY LAWSUITS OVER IT. BUT IT IS A STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE NATIONWIDE FOR FIXING A ZONING MAP, NOT JUST IN TEXAS. THIS IS ZONING LAW, UH, AS IT WERE. SO, AND AS I MENTIONED, EVERY TIME YOU MAKE A CORRECTION ON A MAP, AND YOU MAY SEE IT IN OTHER CITIES, I'VE SEEN IT'S DONE ON A CONSENT AGENT BECAUSE IT'S REALLY AN ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE. IT'S NOT A REZONING IT, AND SO YOU HAVE TO DO IT UNDER STATE LAW. IT HAS TO BE DONE BY ORDINANCE. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS. OKAY. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? MR. MCCAMEY? AFTER THAT, EXPLAIN COMMISSIONER HOLLER. YEAH, MR. MCCAIN, ON JULY 7TH WHEN THIS FIRST SURFACED, IT WAS A POSTPONED AGENDA ITEM, AND THE LANGUAGE IN THE AGENDA WAS A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER ON REQUEST TO RE REZONE A 3.976 ACRE TRACT FROM HOLD HOLDING INTERIM HOLDING TO DISTRICT ZONING DISTRICT TO C3 COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL WITHIN THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR OVER LEAGUE DISTRICT, ET CETERA. UM, HOWEVER, THE LANGUAGE FOR THE AGENDA ITEM TODAY HAS CHANGED ALONG WITH THE ACREAGE. DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE AN AN EXPLANATION FOR US FOR THAT? IT'S NOT REASON. ZONING IS PROBABLY SINCE IT, THAT IS A TERM OF ART THAT MEANS SOMETHING IN, IN THIS CONTEXT. THAT'S PROBABLY THE WRONG TERM TO TO CALL IT. SO THAT WAS PROBABLY THE WRONG TERM IN THAT. SO I CAN PROVIDE SOME BACKGROUND FOR YOU. YEAH, IF YOU LOOK AT, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR CURRENT ZONING MAP, UH, IT DOESN'T HAVE ZONING ON IT, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T SHOW ZONING. SO THERE WAS A COUPLE ASSUMPTIONS MADE. UH, AND AS THE CASE PROGRESSED AND WE DID ADDITIONAL RESEARCH, WE FOUND THAT 2020 CASE WHERE THE PROPERTY WAS ZONED B TWO. OKAY. AND HOW DID, HOW DID WE, I GUESS A FOLLOW UP QUESTION. THAT IS HOW IT WENT FROM 3.976 ACRES TO 5.155. IT GOES BACK TO THIS ORIGINAL ACTION DONE BY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE 3.99 ACRES, UH, THAT'S TO BASICALLY THIS PORTION DOWN HERE OF THIS SITE. BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE 2020 ACTION, THIS IS THE MAP ACTUALLY FROM THE CASE, AND IT INCLUDED ALL OF IT. AND SO WE FELT LIKE IT WAS IMPORTANT, UH, SINCE WE HAD TO FIX THIS, THIS ERROR THAT WE FIXED IT FOR THE ENTIRE FIVE ACRES AND NOT JUST THE THREE. [00:15:03] THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT THAT COMMISSIONER HOWLER DID, FRANKLY. 'CAUSE AGAIN, I'VE BEEN DOING THIS 10 YEARS AND I'VE NEVER SEEN AN ITEM POSTED ONE WAY POSTPONED, THEN POSTED ANOTHER WAY. EVEN THE SIGN ON THE BUCKY'S PROPERTY ADVISING THE COMMUNITY OF THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR TONIGHT. UM, WHAT'S CHANGED? UM, NOW I'VE HEARD YOUR EXPLANATION. I'VE HEARD MR. MCKINNEY'S EXPLANATION, BY THE WAY. HE'S A VERY FINE LAWYER, BUT UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S THINGS LIKE THIS THAT FEEL, THAT FEED THE PERCEPTION IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT THIS WHOLE PROCESS HAS LACKED A COMMITMENT TO TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY. I MEAN, THAT'S, AGAIN, I'VE, I'VE BEEN AT THIS FOR 10 YEARS AND I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS SORT OF DYNAMIC EVER. AND I'VE SAT THROUGH IT IS RIGHT, PROBABLY THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF MEETINGS JUST LIKE THIS. AND I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS HAPPEN BEFORE. IT IS RIGHT. UM, WHETHER IT'S A MISTAKE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW. UH, THAT'S THE PRESUMPTION EVERYONE IS MAKING. BUT ONE THING IS CLEAR, THE FACTS ARE IT'S POSTED ONE WAY IN JULY AND ANOTHER WAY FOR THIS MEETING. AND I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A LITTLE CONCERNING TO ME. UH, AT THIS POINT WE'LL SUSPEND THIS MATTER IN CONSIDERATION AND MOVE TO ITEM THREE, WHICH IS PUBLIC COMMENTS. AND WE'VE GOT A FULL SHEET AND THEN SOME. SO I'M JUST GONNA GO DOWN THE LIST. AMELIA ANDREWS, MS. ANDREWS, WOULD YOU PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND, UM, SHERIFF, SHARE WITH US YOUR THOUGHTS THIS EVENING? AMELIA ANDREWS, UM, 1 0 8 KINGSTON. GOOD EVENING CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS. TONIGHT, YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO CONSIDER REZONING FOR BUCKY'S ACCESSORY PARKING LOT. ON PAPER, IT LOOKS LIKE A SIMPLE RATIFICATION, BUT LET'S BE CLEAR. THIS IS A BRAND NEW PUBLIC ACTION AND YOU HAVE THE FULL AUTHORITY TO APPLY TODAY'S STANDARDS. THIS PARCEL SLIPPED THROUGH WHEN THE UDC WAS ADAPTED. IT HAS NEVER BEEN PROPERLY CLASSIFIED UNDER CURRENT ZONING. THE OVERSIGHT MEANS THAT YOU ARE NOT BOUND TO PASS SHORTCUTS. YOU CAN HOLD BUCKY'S ACCOUNTABLE TO TODAY'S RULES FOR LIGHTING, BUFFERS, STORM WATER IN NEIGHBORHOOD PROTECTIONS. LET'S ALSO REMEMBER WHAT BUCKY'S HAS ALREADY RECEIVED. A 20 YEAR, 50% SALES TAX REBATE, CITY FUNDED EXTENSIONS OF WATER, SEWER, ELECTRIC AND GAS. A NEW COLLECTOR ROAD BUCKY'S WAY PAID AT OR BUILT AT THE PUBLIC EXPENSE AND MULTIPLE FEE CONCESSIONS. THAT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY BENEFIT THAT NO LOCAL BUSINESS HERE COULD EVER EXPECT. YET BUCKY'S CONTINUES TO ASK FOR MORE, INCLUDING THIS REZONING. HERE'S THE REALITY. IT WOULD BE LACKING EVEN RECKLESS TO APPROVE THIS REZONING WHILE SO MANY OTHER PIECES OF THEIR PROJECT REMAIN UNRESOLVED. BUCKY STILL DOESN'T HAVE AN APPROVED TRAFFIC STUDY. AFTER FOUR FAILED SUBMISSIONS, THE SEWER MAINE HASN'T EVEN GONE THROUGH A SUCCESSFUL BID. THE SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS STILL INCOMPLETE UNTIL WE SEE FINAL PLANS, TRAFFIC ACCESS, UTILITIES, DRAINAGE THAT MEET TODAY'S STANDARDS AND GO THROUGH EVERY PUBLIC FORUM AND APPROVAL. APPROVING THIS ZONING CHANGE IN ISOLATION IS LIKE HANDING THE KEYS TO A CAR WITH THIS, WHEN IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN BUILT, YOU WOULDN'T LICENSE THE DRIVER WITHOUT CHECKING FOR THE BRAKES, AND YOU SHOULDN'T GRANT THIS ZONING BEFORE THE OTHER PIECES ARE IN PLACE. TO MAKE IT WORSE, BUCKY'S HAS ALREADY STARTED SITE WORK UNDER THE TEMPORARY ZONING DETERMINATION LETTER, ESSENTIALLY MOVING DIRT AT OUR GATEWAY UNDER THE ASSUMPTION OF C3 ZONING REZONING BEFORE THIS PUBLIC HEARING. THAT MEANS CONSTRUCTION IS ALREADY UNDERWAY BEFORE THE PEOPLE OF B BERNIE HAVE HAD THEIR CHANCE TO VOICE CONCERNS. THAT'S BACKWARDS. AND HERE'S A FINAL FACT. FROM WHAT I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT OF THE 54 CURRENT LOCATIONS, BERNIE IS THE ONLY LARGE FORMAT BUCKY'S THAT DIRECTLY BORDERS RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. AS A RESIDENT OF REGENT PARK, ONE OF JUST 400 PLUS NEIGHBORS THERE, I URGE YOU TO PUMP THE BRAKES, DELAY OR DENY THIS REZONING UNTIL ALL THE OTHER OUTSTANDING ITEMS ARE FULLY ADDRESSED TO TODAY'S STANDARDS. THE PUBLIC IS SPEAKING UP BECAUSE THIS PROJECT WILL PERMANENTLY CHANGE. BERNIE AND THE COMMUNITY NEVER GOT A CHANCE TO WEIGH IN NEARLY A DECADE AGO. THIS WAS PUSHED THROUGH WITHOUT NAMING BUCKY'S ON THE COUNCIL'S AGENDA, IT APPEARED FIRST IN MINUTES, NOT THE AGENDA, AND THERE WAS NO OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT. THAT'S NOT TRANSPARENCY, THAT'S BACK ROOM DEALING. I SUPPORT GROWTH, I SUPPORT JOBS. I DO NOT SUPPORT DECISIONS THAT ARE MADE IN THE DARK. YOU ARE OUR FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE. PLEASE DON'T RUBBER STAMP THIS WHILE SO MANY THINGS REMAIN UNRESOLVED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MS. ANDREWS FOR COMING DOWN THIS EVENING. LINDA PVAC, MS. PVA. MS. PVA, YOU GIVE US YOUR ADDRESS. WE'VE GOT YOUR NAME YES, FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE. MY NAME'S LINDA PLUCK, 3 1 9 DEER CREEK, AND I AM HAVE LIVED IN BERNIE FOR 25 YEARS. OKAY, THANK YOU DEAR. PLANNING AND ZONING CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS AND ESTEEMED GUESTS. RECENTLY I MADE MY PEACE WITH BUCKY'S GONNA COME TO BERNIE. [00:20:01] I UNDERSTAND IT MEANS MORE JOBS, CLEAN BATHROOMS, CHEAP GAS, AND IS GOOD FOR THE LOCAL ECONOMY THINGS BUCKY IS FAMOUS FOR. NOW I UNDERSTAND BUCKY'S WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND. HERE ARE OTHER THINGS. BUCKY'S IS KNOWN FOR MORE TRAFFIC, MORE LIGHT POLLUTION, MORE IMPERVIOUS COVER, BAD FOR FLOODING AND FOR RUNOFF, ALSO MORE STYROFOAM, AKA FOREVER, CHEMICALS IN THEIR DRINKING FOOD CONTAINERS, MORE TRASH, MORE CHEAP STUFF. PEOPLE DO NOT NEED EXPANSION. WILL INCLU WILL EXPAND ALL OF THESE BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT ITEMS. I VOLUNTEER. I I'D LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT TWO OTHER NEW PLACES I VOLUNTEER AT ALBERT AND BESSY KOWSKI STATE NATURAL AREA. WE VALUE OUR DEEP, OUR DARK SKIES AND WILD AREAS INSIDE THE PARK. MY HOPE IS YOUNG PEOPLE AND FAMILIES THAT GO TO THE PARK WILL STILL BE ABLE TO SEE THE STARS. I ALSO SHOP AND EAT AT LOCAL BUSINESSES SUCH AS EPICURE TWO THAT JUST OPENED TODAY. Y'ALL EAT THERE. . UM, I SAT OUTSIDE WHERE THERE WAS PERVIOUS GRAVEL AND GRASSY AREAS AS WELL AS NATIVE PLANTS AND LANDSCAPING. MY MEAL WAS ON A CARDBOARD RECYCLABLE SUSTAINABLE CONTAINER. I UNDERSTAND FROM YOUR PRESENTATION IT'S ABOUT A ZONING THING. UM, AGAIN, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS BEING RUSHED THROUGH. I WOULD ENCOURAGE IF IT REALLY IS A ZONING THING, PERHAPS WE COULD ADOPT A ZONING AS C ONE AND HAVE SOMETHING MORE LIKE BAKER, LORRAINE, MORE A, B, K, MORE EPICURE AND LESS BUCKYS. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU MS. PLE FOR YOUR COMMENTS. MR. DANA MATHIS. DANA MATHIS, 1 6 4 CREEK SPRINGS. GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. I ALSO WISH TO THANK THE COMMISSION FOR ITS LEADERSHIP IN IMPLEMENTING SENSIBLE DEVELOPMENT IN OUR CITY. CONCERNING THAT DEVELOPMENT, I HAVE THREE CONCERNS RELATED TO THE BUCKYS PROJECT. FIRST, BASED ON THE CITY'S OWN DOCUMENTATION, THE SPECIAL PERMIT GRANTED TO BUCKYS IN 2018 FOR A 75 FOOT SIGN WAS NOT PROCESSED ACCORDING TO THE PROCEDURE THEN IN PLACE. THEREFORE, THAT PERMIT IS INVALID. BUCKY'S SHOULD BE HELD TO THE 40 FOOT SIGN HEIGHT REGULATION THEN AND NOW IN PLACE. SECONDLY, WHILE BUCKY'S HAS MADE CONSTRUCTIVE PROPOSALS TO APPROACH BERNIE'S DARK SKIES LIGHTING REQUIREMENTS, IT'S NOT CLEAR THAT THEIR PLANS WILL FULLY COMPLY WITH THE APPLICABLE CITY ORDINANCES. THESE DESIGN FEATURES NEED TO BE CLARIFIED TO ENSURE THAT THE BUCKY'S PROJECT WILL FULLY COMPLY WITH BERNIE'S LIGHTING STANDARDS. FINALLY, A CREDIBLE TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS IS YET TO BE COMPLETED FOR THIS PROJECT. AS YOU WELL KNOW, BERNIE'S GROWN A GREAT DEAL SINCE 2016 WHEN THE PROJECT WAS FIRST ANNOUNCED, AND IT CONTINUES TO GROW AT A RAPID PACE. THE TRAFFIC STUDY SHOULD BE BASED ON CURRENT DATA, CONSIDER PEAK HOLIDAY TRAFFIC AND TAKE INTO ACCOUNT DEVELOPMENT ALONG THE I 10 FEEDERS NEAR THE PROJECT. THE DRAFT TIA IS UNACCEPTABLE AS IT MEETS NONE OF THOSE CRITERIA. THEREFORE, I RESPECTFULLY REQUEST THAT NO ZONING RECLASSIFICATIONS FOR PROPERTIES ASSOCIATED WITH THE BUCKY'S PROJECT PROCEED AND NO ADDITIONAL PERMITS FOR THE PROJECT BE GRANTED UNTIL THESE ISSUES ARE FULLY ADDRESSED. IT'S BEEN NINE YEARS SINCE THIS PROJECT WAS ANNOUNCED. A SHORT PAUSE TO RESOLVE THESE ISSUES IS NOT UNREASONABLE. IF WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS PROJECT, THEN WE NEED MUST DO IT RIGHT AND IT MUST BE DONE WELL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MR. MATHIS. KELLY. COOL, KELLY. COOL. PLEASE COME DOWN. I'M KELLY. COOL. 6 35 MIN SPRINGS. THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING. I COME TO YOU TONIGHT WITH CONCERNS REGARDING THE VALIDITY OF BUCKY'S SIGN PERMIT. I AM AWARE OF THE TWO AVENUES THAT THE 2008 DASH 21 SIGN ORDINANCE PROVIDED FOR A BUSINESS TO RECEIVE APPROVAL FOR A SIGN THAT WAS IN EXCESS OF THE PARAMETERS SET FORTH IN SECTIONS. BB FOUR A AND B BUCKY'S UTILIZED BOTH OF THESE AVENUES IN AN ATTEMPT TO GET THEIR OVERSIZED SIGN APPROVED. AFTER FAILING TO RECEIVE APPROVAL, WHEN THE CITY COUNCIL DENIED BUCKY'S REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE, BUCKY'S ATTEMPTED THE SECOND AVENUE TO RECEIVE APPROVAL. THIS WAS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OPTION DESCRIBED IN SECTION BBB FOUR C OF THE ORDINANCE, WHICH GAVE THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE COMPRISED OF THE CHIEF OF POLICE, FIRE MARSHAL, AND THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, THE AUTHORITY TO REVIEW AND APPROVE A SIGN UP TO 75 FEET TALL AND 300 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE. SECTION BBB FOUR [00:25:01] C STATED CLEARLY THAT THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MUST TAKE ACTION ON A REQUEST WITHIN 10 WORKING DAYS OF RECEIVING THAT REQUEST AND FORWARD A REPORT OF ITS DECISION TO THE CITY COUNCIL. ON DECEMBER 19TH, 2017, BUCKY'S REQUESTED THAT THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE REVIEW THEIR REQUEST FOR A SE 75 FOOT SIGN. THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION THAT ALL THREE MEMBERS OF THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSED AND REVIEWED THE REQUEST. ON APRIL 27TH, 2018, OVER FOUR MONTHS AFTER THE REQUEST WAS SUBMITTED, THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT WROTE A LETTER TO STAN BEARD AT BUCKY'S TELLING HIM THAT THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE WAS APPROVING THEIR SIGN. THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION THAT THE POLICE CHIEF OR FIRE MARSHAL, THE OTHER TWO MEMBERS OF THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE WERE IN FAVOR OF APPROVING THE OVERSIZED SIGN. THE ORDINANCE GAVE THE APPROVAL AUTHORITY TO THE COMMITTEE AS A WHOLE AND NOT TO ONE INDIVIDUAL. ADDITIONALLY, THE ACTION TAKEN WAS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING WITHIN 10 WORKING DAYS OF THE REQUEST AS REQUIRED IN THE ORDINANCE. AND THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION OF THE CITY COUNCIL BEING NOTIFIED OF THE DECISION ALSO REQUIRED IN THE ORDINANCE. THE SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE DID NOT FOLLOW THE ESTABLISHED PROCESS AS SPECIFIED IN THE GOVERNING ORDINANCE TO APPROVE THE BUCKY SIGN. THE PERMIT WAS THUS ISSUED AN ERROR AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS INVALID. I WILL CLOSE BY ADDING THAT THE BUCKY SIGNED PERMIT IS NOT PROTECTED UNDER VESTED RIGHTS BECAUSE THE PERMIT WAS NOT GRANTED FOLLOWING THE LEGAL PROCESSES IN THE CITY ORDINANCE. THEREFORE, THE RIGHT WAS NEVER GRANTED AND THUS IS NOT PROTECTED. IN LIGHT OF THIS, I ASK YOU TO PLEASE TABLE THE RECLASSIFICATION ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT UNTIL THE PERMIT PROCESS IS REDONE FOLLOWING PROPER PROCEDURES AS STATED AND CURRENT CITY ORDINANCES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MS. KBO. TIMING WAS PERFECT. DID YOU REHEARSE THAT ON HOME IN FRONT OF AM MIRROR WITH THE THREE MINUTE TIMER GOING? I'LL TELL YOU THAT WAS, THAT WAS DYNAMIC. ALRIGHT, MR. PATTON, MIKE PATTON, PLEASE COME DOWN AND IF YOU'LL GIVE US YOUR ADDRESS. WE'VE GOT YOUR NAME. MY NAME IS MIKE PATTON AND I'M SEATING MY THREE MINUTES TO TANGY PATTON. UH, ALRIGHT, WE'LL DO THAT. I'LL DO THAT FOR A HUSBAND AND WIFE. TYPICALLY THAT'S NOT ED, BUT, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL DO SPOUSAL PRIVILEGES WITH THIS THIS EVENING. SO MS. PATTON, YOU'VE GOT SIX MINUTES. I PUT SOME 40 YEARS THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY. CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU BOTH. GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. MY NAME IS TANGIE PATTON AND I DO LIVE IN BERNIE. UH, FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR SERVING ON THIS COMMITTEE. UH, I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITIZENS IN GENERAL, I KNOW I DIDN'T UNTIL WE STARTED DIGGING INTO THIS ISSUE AND GOING THROUGH THE OPEN RECORDS REQUESTS AND PAPERS AND DOCUMENTATION AND HISTORY THAT, UH, SURROUND THIS 10 YEAR PROJECT. YOU GUYS PUT IN AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME AND EFFORT AND IT IS HIGHLY RESPECTED AND COMMENDED AND THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU DO. THAT BEING SAID, I WANNA LET YOU KNOW THAT WE BELIEVE THE BUCKY'S DEAL BA DATING BACK TO 2017 FEELS LIKE A BACKROOM DEAL IN MANY RESPECTS. OUR GROUP HAS SUBMITTED NUMEROUS OPEN RECORDS REQUESTS TO THE CITY, AND MANY OF THOSE REQUESTS HAVE NOT BEEN FILLED. THAT POINTS TO A VERY TROUBLING LACK OF TRANSPARENCY. WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY A CITY COUNCILMAN THAT HE HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH BUCKY'S FOR YEARS VIA EMAIL, AND THAT FOR EVERY TIME HE'S BEEN IN CONTACT WITH BUCKY'S CITY STAFF HAS BEEN IN CONTACT 10 TIMES MORE. SO WHERE ARE THOSE EMAILS? WE'VE REQUESTED THEM. I RECENTLY CONTACTED CITY STAFF AND REQUESTED AGAIN THAT THE EMAILS BE PRODUCED THIS TIME, SPECIFICALLY BETWEEN THE COUNCILMAN AND BUCKY'S. OUT OF THAT REQUEST, ONLY TWO EMAILS WERE PRODUCED. ONE FROM SEPTEMBER 2ND, ONE FROM SEPTEMBER 1ST OF THIS YEAR, TWO EMAILS FROM THIS MONTH. THAT'S IT. SO IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP. WHERE ARE ALL THE OTHER EMAILS? JUST ABOUT ANY LAWYER WOULD AGREE THAT THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT SIGNED IN 2017 WAS ONE SUITE DEAL FOR BUCKY'S. ONE COUNCILMAN RECENTLY TOLD US BUCKY'S GOT EVERYTHING THEY WANT. HE'S RIGHT. IT'S A DEAL WITH NO GUARDRAILS FOR BERNIE. LET'S SEE. WHAT ALL DID BERNIE GIVE AWAY? BERNIE GAVE BUCKYS A 50% SALES TAX REBATE FOR 20 YEARS. BERNIE GAVE BUCKYS A 75 FOOT SIGN INSTEAD OF THE REQUIRED 40 FEET. THE PROCESS TO TO APPROVE THAT SIGN IS HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE. IT NEEDS TO BE TOSSED OUT AND THE PROCESS NEEDS TO BE DONE AGAIN. BERNIE GAVE [00:30:01] BUCKYS THE ABILITY TO FOREVER CHANGE OUR DARK SKIES. BERNIE GAVE BUCKYS A CONTRACT THAT MAY NOT EVEN BE FULLY ENFORCEABLE. IT APPEARS TO BE AN INCOMPLETE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT ON MANY LEVELS. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF THE PROPERTY. BERNIE GAVE BUCKY'S ESSENTIALLY A PERPETUAL RIGHT TO BUILD AND TO ONLY BE HELD TO 2019 ORDINANCES. BUCKY BERNIE'S HAS CHANGED A LOT SINCE THEN. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT SIGN CONTROVERSY. IT APPEARS BUCKY'S WAS ISSUED A SIGN PERMIT FOR THAT TALL SIGN BEFORE THE SIGN COMMITTEE EVEN MADE THE DECISION. I HAVE DOCUMENTS RIGHT HERE THAT INCLUDE A SIGNED PERMIT DATED MARCH 27TH, 2018, AND ALSO HERE A LETTER FROM THE CITY TO BUCKY'S APPROVING THE PERMIT DATED APRIL 27TH, 2018. THAT RAISES AN IMPORTANT QUESTION, WAS THE PERMIT ISSUED A MONTH BEFORE THE SIGN COMMITTEE EVEN MADE ITS DECISION? MR. CHAIRMAN, I KNOW YOU'VE RAISED THESE QUESTIONS BECAUSE WE CAME ACROSS YOUR EMAILS AND THE PUBLIC RECORDS THAT WERE RELEASED, SO I KNOW YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT. I KNOW YOU'RE ALSO FAMILIAR THAT THAT SIGN ORDINANCE, THAT THE SIGN COMMITTEE RULES ARE BASED ON ALSO REQUIRED THAT APPROVAL FOR BUCKY'S REQUEST FOR THAT TALL SIGN BE MADE WITHIN 10 DAYS. THE 10 DAY DEADLINE WAS NOWHERE NEAR MET. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE APPROVAL PROCESS. IT INCRE IN APPEARS TO BE INCREDIBLY LOOSE KNIT. ONE FORMER SIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MEMBER, THE FORMER FIRE MARSHAL WHO WAS ON THAT COMMITTEE TOLD ME, QUOTE, NOBODY WANTED A BIG UGLY SIGN. HE ALSO SAID 90% OF THE DECISION WAS DRIVEN BY STAFF DEVELOPMENT, NAMELY THE DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE. HE DOESN'T EVEN REMEMBER TAKING A FORMAL VOTE. WAS THIS PROCESS LEGAL? IT CAN'T BE ALLOWED TO STAND. IT NEEDS TO BE TOSSED OUT. AN INDEPENDENT GROUP NEEDS TO COME IN AND REEVALUATE THE WHOLE THING. LET'S ALSO REMEMBER, BUCKY'S IS NOT JUST A GAS STATION. IT'S A TOURIST DESTINATION. IT'S A SHOPPING DESTINATION AND A MEGA GAS OPERATION WITH 110 GAS PUMPS. THAT'S AN ENORMOUS FOOTPRINT. BERNIE SKIES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. AND I SAY THAT WITHOUT ANY EXAGGERATION, BERNIE SKIES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. FINALLY, TRAFFIC THE GIGANTIC UNKNOWN. HOW MASSIVE WILL THE CONGESTION BE? THE TRUTH IS NO ONE CAN ANSWER THAT BECAUSE TRAFFIC STUDIES ARE NOT COMPLETE. EVEN WORSE. THE BASELINE DATA BEING USED DATES BACK TO 2015. RELYING ON THAT STUDY TODAY, A 10-YEAR-OLD STUDY. IN MY OPINION, THAT'S JUST IRRESPONSIBLE. SO WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE US? WE NEED FULL TRANSPARENCY. ALL RECORDS, ALL EMAILS, ALL CORRESPONDENCE. WE NEED TO REEXAMINE THE LEGALITIES OF THE 2017 DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. THE SIGN APPROVAL FOR THE 75 FOOT HEIGHT NEEDS TO BE REVOKED AND A LEGAL TRANSPARENT PROCESS NEEDS TO BE PUT IN PLACE. WE NEED UPDATED TRAFFIC STUDIES. WE NEED TO ENFORCE CURRENT DARK SKY ORDINANCES TO THE MAX. BERNIE WILL NO LONGER BE A DARK SKY COMMUNITY. THAT'LL BE IT. IT'S NOT POSSIBLE WITH WHAT BUCKY'S HAS TO DO AND WHAT THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN THE ABILITY TO DO. SO WE'RE ASKING YOU GUYS TO, AND LADIES, YOU DO. WHAT COMMON SENSE DICTATES THIS ENTIRE PROCESS NEEDS TO BE PAUSED. WE NEED TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT IT. LET'S CORRECT ANY MISTAKES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE IN THE PAST AND FOR ALL, FOR GOD'S SAKE, LET'S CORRECT AND MOVE IN THE DIRECTION THAT DOESN'T CAUSE FUTURE MISTAKES FOR OUR BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY. A LOT REST ON THIS. BERNIE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME. THE TRAFFIC, THE DARK SKIES. THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE HERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MS. PAT FOR YOUR COMMENTS. CHRISTIE ACKERMAN, MS. ACKERMAN. HI, MY NAME IS CHRISTY ACKERMAN. I'M AT 6 23 MANGER SPRINGS. I'M HERE TODAY TO VOICE MY CONCERNS ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNING BUCKY'S. WHEN WE THINK OF BUCKY'S, WE MIGHT THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE YOUTH GROUPS AND THE FAMILIES ON VACATION THAT STOPPED TO USE THE RESTROOM AND BUY SNACKS. WHAT WE DON'T THINK OF IS THE UNSAVORY PERSON WHO STOPS IN THE CAR THIEF, THE BURGLAR, THE PEDOPHILE THERE IS ALREADY A PROBLEM WITH CARLE THEFT, OF WHICH MY FAMILY HAS HAD TWO CARS STOLEN IN THE LAST TWO YEARS. AND SOON MORE UNSAVORY INDIVIDUALS WILL BE DRAWN INTO OUR TOWN BECAUSE OF THE MEGA CENTER. BUCKY'S IS PLACED AT ONE OF OUR CITY'S MAJOR. BERNIE CITY EXITS EACH INTERSTATE EXIT BEFORE AND AFTER. BUCKY'S HAVE AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND A MIDDLE SCHOOL, UH, JUST BLOCKS OFF OF THE INTERSTATE. [00:35:01] BUCKY'S IS SET BETWEEN TWO NEIGHBORHOODS. ONE OF BUCKY'S MAIN EXITS WILL FILTER TRAFFIC ONTO A MAIN THOROUGHFARE THROUGH THE NEIGHBOR, THE NEARBY REGENT PARK NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT PARENT IS GONNA LET THEIR KIDS PLAY FREE? AND IF THEY DO, THE KIDS WILL BE VULNERABLE TO TRANSIENT AND PEDOPHILES, OF WHICH I HAVE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH. WHEN I WAS A CHILD, A TRANSIENT ASKED ME TO GET INTO HIS CAR SO THAT HE COULD TAKE ME HOME. AND A FEW YEARS LATER, A SECOND PEDOPHILE WEARING NOTHING BUT A SHIRT STOPPED ME TO ASK MY 9-YEAR-OLD SELF FOR DIRECTIONS. I'M ACUTELY AWARE OF THE DANGERS OF UNSAVORY INDIVIDUALS. THE OBLIGATIONS OF CITY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION ARE TO BALANCE GROWTH WITH HEALTH, SAFETY AND THE WELFARE OF THE PUBLIC. SO I KNOW THAT YOUR HEART IS FOR OUR SAFETY AS WELL. I'VE BEEN GIVEN VERBAL CONFIRMATION THAT SOMETHING WILL BE PUT UP SEPARATE TO SEPARATE BUCKY'S FROM THE NEARBY NEIGHBORHOODS. I'VE ALSO READ AN EMAIL FROM STAN BEARD AND JOE MACALUSO, INCLUDING BEN THATCHER, THAT THERE WILL BE AN ADDITIONAL OF FENCING BETWEEN THE PROJECT AND THE NINE ACRE PRESERVATION AREA. BUT THERE ARE NO DETAILS OF THIS. I'M REQUESTING A CONCRETE OR BLOCK WALL TO SEPARATE BUCKY'S FROM THE NEIGHBORHOODS HEB. AND BERNIE HAS A WALL SEPARATING THEIR BUSINESS FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT STANDS AT EIGHT FEET, THREE INCHES. I'M ASKING FOR THE SAME. I'M ASKING FOR SECURITY SIGNAGE TO BE PLACED EXCESSIVELY AROUND THE PROPERTY. SIMILAR TO THE BERNIE'S WAL BERNIE WALMARTS, WHICH THEY HAVE SIGNS THAT SAY CAMERAS IN USE. I'M ASKING FOR EXCESSIVE SECURITY CAMERAS AROUND THE PARKING LOT AND IN FRONT AND BACK ON AND ON THE SIDES, THE PRESENCE OF POLICE AND OR A UNIFORMED SECURITY TO BE ON THE BUCKY'S PREMISES. I'M ASKING THE CITY TO HIRE MORE POLICE OFFICERS, ALL THIS TO DISSUADE UNSAVORY INDIVIDUALS AND TO GET THEM BACK ON THE ROAD. I'M ALSO REQUESTING THAT THE CITY SOLVE THE FORESEEABLE PROBLEM AT THE INTERSECTION OF IH 10 IN MANGER SPRINGS. WE NEED A LONG TURN LANE OR EMERGENCY LANE TO BE CREATED IN ANTICIPATION OF BUCKY'S TRAFFIC, STOPPING, UM, ACCESS TO THE METHODIST BERNIE, ER, AND MEDICAL CENTER AND THE METHODIST SURGERY CENTER. THERE'S ONLY ONE STREET THAT LEADS TO THE MEDICAL CENTER AND ONLY ONE DRIVEWAY INTO THE HOSPITAL. WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR ANY MAJOR CRISIS LIKE OUR NEIGHBORS IN KERRVILLE HAD. AND RIGHT NOW, IF THE TRAFFIC BLOCKS THIS STREET, PEOPLE IN EMERGENCY SITUATIONS COULD PAY THE PRICE WITH ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE NOT CONCLUSIVE. I ASK THAT WE PUT A, A PAUSE ON WHAT WE'RE MO TRYING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH TODAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MS. ACKERMAN FOR YOUR COMMENTS. ALEX RUDD. MS. RUDD. MS. RUDD, THERE SHE IS. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR MY TIME. ALEX RUD, 68 LA CONONE DRIVE. UM, BERNIE, I HAVE MY OWN STOPWATCH. ALL RIGHT. FIRST OF ALL, THE COMMUNITY IS NOT HAPPY. TRANSPARENCY ON THIS PROJECT. GOING BACK, ASKING FOR RECORDS SO FAR TO DATE, I HAVEN'T FOUND ANY THAT THE COMMUNITY WAS INVITED TO THE TABLE TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANTED THIS MONSTROSITY IN THE FIRST PLACE. IT WAS A SURPRISE ANNOUNCEMENT. IT'S HUGE. THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M GONNA FOCUS ON, ARE ENORMOUS. IT'S GONNA HAVE HUGE TRAFFIC, SEVERAL THOUSAND VISITORS PER HOUR. IT'S NEXT TO A MAJOR INTERSTATE, A CITY OF 2.2 MILLION PEOPLE. ANY ASSUMPTIONS THAT THIS IS AN ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY GAS STATION ARE VERY, VERY QUESTIONABLE. THE EDWARDS AQUIFER AUTHORITY BANNED NEW GAS STATIONS OVER THEIR RECHARGE, SUNG COMPLETELY BANNED. EXISTING ONES REQUIRE TRIPLE CONTAINMENT, NOT DOUBLE. THEY ALSO LIMIT UNDERGROUND STORAGE TO 600 GALLONS. ACCORDING TO WHAT I'VE HEARD, THIS BUCKY CAN EXPECT TO HAVE A QUARTER MILLION GALLONS OF UNDERGROUND STORAGE WITH 110 PUMPS. THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS ARE GONNA BE FOREVER, FOREVER, FOREVER, GOOD OR BAD. THAT WAS VERY UNFAIR. TO IMPOSE THIS ON A COMMUNITY OF SMART, EDUCATED, ENGAGED PEOPLE, WE WOULD'VE RESEARCHED THESE ISSUES. ALL THESE DETAILS THAT I'VE SENT, MULTIPLE EMAILS TO THE CITY, TO THE ZONING, TO THE CITY MANAGER, QUESTIONS, CONCERNS ABOUT TCEQ AND WATER POLLUTION, WE NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO ASK. WE WOULD'VE HAD A THOUSAND QUESTIONS INCLUDING THE ZONING, THE SIGNS, THE SECURITY, THE WATER. CAL CREEK WASN'T INVITED. THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT DOES ALLOW FOR EXECUTIVE SESSIONS AND PRIVATE SESSIONS. HOWEVER, ACCORDING TO WHAT I FOUND BEFORE A FINAL DECISION IS MADE, THERE SHOULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING. ACCORDING TO WHAT I FOUND OUT SO FAR THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. THE CITY WAS NEVER ASKED [00:40:01] FORMALLY, DO YOU WANT THIS OR NOT? INSTEAD, WE, WE ARE WHERE WE ARE TODAY, 10 YEARS LATER. AND I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR TIME AND YOUR EFFORTS. I KNOW YOU INHERITED A MESS 10 YEARS LATER. WE HAVE A MESS NOW, SPECIFICALLY WITH TCEQ, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT, THEIR RECORD REPORTS OF CLEAN RECORD REPORTABLE SPILL. OKAY? QUESTIONABLE. A REPORTABLE SPILL IS ANYTHING OVER 25 GALLONS. THEY DON'T HAVE TO REPORT THAT YOU COULD HAVE A THOUSAND SPILLS A DAY AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO REPORT IT AT ALL. THAT MEANS THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO ANY SOIL TESTING, ANY WATER TESTING, ANY EXPENSIVE INVESTIGATIONS, UNLESS IT'S MEASURED BY AN UNDERGROUND STORAGE SECURITY SYSTEM OR MONITORING. THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW WHETHER YOU SPILLED FILLING A GAS CAN FOR A LAWNMOWER 24.8 GALLONS OR 25.2. UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S AN INCENTIVE FOR BUCKY'S TO NOT REPORT THESE THINGS. NOW, I'M NOT MAKING ACCUSATIONS, BUT THIS IS AN ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER FOR MANY REASONS, INCLUDING THE LAST THING I'LL MENTION, SETBACKS FROM GAS STATIONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF FUMES AND EXPOSURE TO BENZENE. THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE ONE AT ALL. THAT IS JUST ONE OF MANY, MANY MORE CONCERNS. I COULD TALK FOR AN HOUR, BUT YOU HAVE A COPY OF MY EMAIL. PLEASE REVIEW IT. THANK YOU. WE DO THANK YOU. IT'S VERY DETAILED AND ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS. JAMES WILLIS DIDN'T INDICATE TO WHICH ITEM HE WANTED TO VISIT. MR. WILLIS, IS IT THIS ITEM OR SOME OTHER ITEM? YES. OKAY. FIRST OFF, I'M EXCITED FOR THE BUCKYS TO COME TO BERNIE. IT WILL BRING EXCITEMENT AND JOBS, BUT I ALSO WANT THE ZONING TO BE DONE FAIRLY AND HONESTLY, NOT GET THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORS ANGRY OR UPSET, INCLUDING THOSE ON POST. BUT ON THE PLUS SIDE, WE LOOK FORWARD TO TO TO TO GREAT NEW, TO A GREAT NEW BUSINESS THAT'LL BRING MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO, TO BERNIE OUR GREAT TOWN COME 2026. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. WELL APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS AND COMING THIS EVENING. UM, CHRISTY ACKERMAN, WELL, YOU SIGNED ON TWO LISTS. WELL, GOOD FOR YOU, BUT YOU CAN ONLY SPEAK ONCE. SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. UM, AS IS MY COMMON PRACTICE OF THOSE OF US WHO'VE BEEN TO THESE BEFORE, UH, EVEN IF YOU'VE NOT SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS, BUT YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION THIS EVENING ON ANY TOPIC, NOT JUST BUCKY'S, BUT PUBLIC COMMENTS IS FOR ANYTHING ON YOUR MIND REGARDING THIS COMMUNITY AND WHAT'S GOING ON HERE. YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME FORWARD. WOW. NO TAKERS. OH, YES SIR. COME ON DOWN, SIR. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. IT'S FANTASTIC. AND THE WOMEN NEED AN AWARD IN ORDER. BOY, MY NAME IS BRIAN RUSSELL. I LIVE AT, UH, 1 5 7 BITTER SPRINGS IN MANGER. I SPOKE THE OTHER NIGHT AND I, I, I THINK I RAISED MY VOICE. I HAD TO APOLOGIZE TO MY WIFE ON THE WAY HOME. I, I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS. I, WITHIN A VERY SHORT TIME, BERNIE IS GOING TO BE REMOVED FROM THE LIST OF DESIRABLE TOWNS IN THIS COUNTRY. IT'S WAY UP THERE RIGHT NOW. AND WE'RE ABOUT TO DESTROY IT. AS SOMEBODY ELSE SAID BEFORE ME, WE'RE ABOUT TO DESTROY IT. THE ONE THING THAT CAME UP THE LAST TIME I WAS HERE HER A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO IS THAT NOBODY HAS SPOKEN TO ME ABOUT BUCKY'S USE OF OUR WATER. I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WATER TO WATER MY LAWN SOMETIMES AND IS ANYBODY GONNA TELL ME THAT BUCKY'S IS GOING TO ENHANCE OUR WATER SUPPLY? IT'S ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. WE ALSO SIT IN THE PREVAILING WIND COMING FROM BUCKY'S. NOT JUST THE FUMES FROM THE CARS, BUT THE FUMES FROM THE TOILETS AND THE FUMES FROM THE COOKING ARE ALL COMING RIGHT OVER OUR COMMUNITIES. IT'S UNBELIEVABLE TO ME THAT A TOWN AS PRECIOUS AS, AS BERNIE IS, IS GOING TO BE RUINED BY THIS BUCKY'S THING. I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIGHT IT WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE HAVE. AND I'M GLAD THEY HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE. I DIDN'T HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE AND STUFF WAS HIDDEN FROM US. LET'S NOT KID OURSELVES. WE KNOW WHO DID IT AND WE KNOW IT WAS HIDDEN FROM US 'CAUSE IT WOULD NEVER HAVE GOTTEN THROUGH THIS TOWN. THESE PEOPLE ARE TOO TOUGH TO PUT UP WITH THIS NONSENSE. IT'S A SHAME. THANK YOU, MR. RUSSELL. ANYONE ELSE WHO MAY NOT HAVE SIGNED UP WHO'D LIKE TO COME DOWN AND SPEAK ON THIS SUBJECT? YES, SIR. IF YOU'LL COME FORWARD, MR. KYLE GIVES YOUR ADDRESS AND YES. UH, LANCE KYLE, 2 2 6, CASCADE CAVERNS ROAD. HAVEN'T BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE. DIDN'T EXPECT TO SPEAK TODAY. UM, I SUPPOSE YOU ALL SAW THAT, UH, DOCUMENT, IT'S CALLED, UH, BUCK EAST DEVELOPMENT THAT WAS TUCKED INTO THE, UH, BACKUP FILES. UH, FOR TODAY'S MEETING. [00:45:01] I I THINK IT'S ABOUT 10 PAGES. MAYBE IT'S MORE. UM, BUT ON PAGE ONE, THERE'S SOME REALLY INTERESTING VERBIAGE, UH, IN THAT DOCUMENT. UM, AND AGAIN, IN THE FIRST PAGE WHERE THE CITY OF BERNIE, I DON'T KNOW WHO WROTE IT, UH, SAYS THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT A MINIMAL PAPER TRAIL. LET ME QUOTE THE PARAGRAPH. IT'S REALLY INTERESTING, CREATING SUCH A RECORD PRESENTS UNIQUE CHALLENGES THAT, THAT ALLUDING TO THE, UH, BUCKY'S DEVELOPMENT, UH, DOCUMENT. THE MAJORITY OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS, B-K-E-D-C STAFF. I'M GLAD THEY MENTIONED THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE DEFINITELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BUCKY'S THING AND CITY STAFF DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE EARLY STAGES OF THE PROJECT ARE NO LONGER IN THOSE POSITIONS. AS A RESULT, MUCH OF THE INSTITUTIONAL MEMORY SURROUNDING THE PROJECT IS DIMINISHED, REQUIRING A DELIBERATE RECONSTRUCTION OF EVENTS FROM AVAILABLE DOCUMENTATION. SO PROBABLY THIS IS PROBABLY THE WORST EXAMPLE OF CYA I'VE EVER SEEN. ARE MOST OF THESE PROJECT HISTORIES THAT THE CITY, UH, MAINTAINS BASED ON ORAL ACCOUNTS? I MEAN, ARE THESE PEOPLE VIKINGS READING ROOMS OR SOMETHING OR I, I DON'T KNOW. THIS IS STRANGE. UM, AND, UM, ARE THEY JUST, OR ARE THEY JUST TRYING TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THE BOWMAN SCHULTZ ADMINISTRATION? I DON'T KNOW, BUT THAT PARAGRAPH IS REALLY STRANGE. TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHO WROTE THAT. IT MUST HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE JUNIOR PLANNING, UH, PEOPLE IN THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. KYLE. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO COME DOWN AND SPEAK DURING THIS PUBLIC? YES SIR. PUBLIC COMMENTS PORTION. IF YOU'LL GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. SURE. MY NAME IS JOHN MCNAMARA. I LIVE AT 1 7 8 2 7 HANDY PEAK. UM, I GUESS WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY IS GONNA BE PROBABLY UNPOPULAR, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH IS A ZONING CORRECTION, THE SIGN ISSUE PLAN ISSUE, BUCKY'S, ALL THAT STUFF. IT'S LARGELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY. YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO CORRECT THE FACT THAT TDOT DID NOT HAVE ITS PARCEL UPDATED TO THE CURRENT ZONING WHEN THE ORDINANCE ROLLED OVER THE APPROPRIATE ZONING. I MEAN, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY WANT TO BUILD THERE, IT'S, IT'S, THEY COULD TAKE THAT LAND AND SELL IT. IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. THE B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ZONING IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE USE THAT THEY WERE DOING. YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO UPDATE IT TO THE NO, THE NEW ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW, UM, THIS IS SIMILAR TO IF YOU WERE TO ANNEX A PIECE OF PROPERTY, UM, IF PART OF THIS RIGHT OF WAY WAS SWITCHED TO A DIFFERENT LOT, A NEW LOT, YOU'D HAVE TO ASSIGN A ZONING IT, WELL, YOU WOULD ASSIGN A ZONING BASED ON WHAT'S AROUND IT. IN THIS CASE, C TWO OR AS MIKE WAS ARGUING, IT'S, IT'S AN ASSIGNMENT. IT'S NOT A REZONING. UM, IF YOU ANNEX SOMETHING, THEY DON'T COME IN AND SAY, WE'RE REZONING THIS TO YOU. DON'T FILE A REZONING APPLICATION. YOU AS, I'M SORRY, YOU ASSIGN A ZONING BASED ON THE NEIGHBORING CONDITIONS. SO I GUESS I WOULD SAY I, I'M IN SUPPORT OF THE ZONING REGARDLESS OF THE SIGN ISSUES AND OTHER THINGS, WHICH I AGREE ARE PROBLEMS, BUT I JUST THINK YOU'RE GETTING A LITTLE LOST IN THE, WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD THERE AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THIS IS ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING TO DO. ALRIGHT. WELL THANK YOU MR. MCNAMARA FOR YOUR COMMENTS. AND I APPRECIATE, UM, Y'ALL SHOWING MR. MCNAMARA THE SAME DEFERENCE IN RESPECT TO HIS COMMENTS THAT HE SHOWED TO YOURS. UM, THAT IS THE WAY GOOD PUBLIC DISCOURSE SHOULD GO. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO COME ON DOWN DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENTS PORTION? YES, SIR. PLEASE COME ON FORWARD AND, AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. GOOD EVENING. I'M, UH, MY NAME IS ERIC MUNOZ. I'M AT 1 3 7 HAMPTON COVE HERE IN BURN. SO I JUST HAVE A, A COUPLE, UH, I GUESS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ZONING CORRECTION. UM, IT LOOKS LIKE SINCE 2016, BUCKY'S HAS BEEN SLOWLY DOING LIKE A LITTLE LAND GRAB IN THAT AREA. UM, THE PICTURE THAT WE'RE SEEING ISN'T ACCURATE TO WHERE THE PROPERTY THAT THEY OWN CURRENTLY, THEY JUST BOUGHT, I THINK IN 2003, I'M SORRY, 2023, A SLIVER OF THAT BLUE PORTION THAT THEY'RE ASKING TO DO A CLERICAL ERROR FIX ON THIS EVENING. UM, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, LIKE WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE END GAME HERE, RIGHT? BUCKY'S WANTS TO BUY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE HIGHWAY TO BUILD THEIR, I GUESS, ADDITIONAL PARKING. AND I CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY WOULD WANNA PUSH FOR THIS TO BE REZONED IN THEIR OPINION. UM, AND CALLING IT A CLERICAL ERROR. I JUST, I DON'T SEE THE BENEFIT OF IT. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT, UM, BOTH TRACKS THAT THEY ALREADY PURCHASED, OR ACTUALLY THIS WILL NOW BE THE THIRD, WHICH IS A PORTION OF THE BLUE. [00:50:01] UM, IT'S PLENTY OF LAND TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. BUT, UM, I JUST DON'T, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE BENEFIT THAT CHANGING THE ZONING IN THIS WOULD BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY RATHER THAN BENEFIT BUCKY'S. UM, BEING THAT IT'S A B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ON PAPER, BUT IN REALITY IT'S NOT. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME. LIKE HOW, HOW CAN THAT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT EVERYBODY BEING INVOLVED AND EVERYBODY MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF OUR ZONING IS CORRECT EITHER ON PAPER OR ON THE MAP. THAT'S IT. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU MR. MUNOZ. ANYONE ELSE? YES, SIR. AGAIN, JUST YOUR NAME, ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD AND SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS WITH US. JOSH ANDREWS, UH, 1 0 8 KINGSTON COURT. UM, FIRST I CONCUR WITH MY WIFE COMPLETELY. UM, SHE WAS THE FIRST ONE THAT SPOKE. SECONDLY, UM, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS, UH, NUMER UNO, UM, ON THE INITIAL CALL FOR THIS, MY WIFE AND I ACTUALLY CAME IN HERE WHEN, WHEN IT WAS TABLED AND THEN PUSHED TO TODAY. UM, AND MR. UH, HYLER IS COMPLETELY IN 100% CORRECT? UM, IT IS NOT THE SAME AGENDA. UM, IT IS NOT THE SAME, UH, ACREAGE SIZE. IT IS NOT THE SAME REQUEST, UH, THAT WAS INITIALLY PUT ON THE TABLE IN JULY, UM, WHICH SHOULD BE THE FIRST RED FLAG IN THIS. UM, AND SIR, I UNDERSTAND IT'S A CLERICAL ERROR, WHICH, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE PROFESSIONALS AND OTHER THINGS IN STATE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, UH, POINT BLANK. UM, AND THEN YOU COMPOUND THAT ON TOP OF THE SECRECY OF THE INITIAL DEAL AND ALSO THE SECRECY OF THE, UM, FOR LAYMAN'S TERMS, WE'LL CALL IT A LAND GRAB SCENT. UM, AND, AND THE OTHER GENTLEMAN THAT CAME BEFORE ME WAS COMPLETELY IN A HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT, THAT BLUE AREA RIGHT THERE, THEY'RE ASKING FOR ANOTHER SLIVER. UM, SO IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GIVING AND GIVING AND GIVING, UM, AND NOT REALLY GETTING ANYTHING IN RETURN, RIGHT? WE'RE, WE'RE BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, ROLLING OUT THE RED CARPET, UH, AND ALLOWING BUCKY'S TO DO BASICALLY WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WITH THIS STUFF BEFORE ALL THEIR DUCKS ARE IN A ROW. UM, AND I THINK WE NEED TO GET THAT UNDER CONTROL. UM, SECONDLY, UH, MS. ACKERSON HIT, UM, ONE OF MY BIG POINTS OF CONTENTION. I LIVE IN REGENT PARK AS WELL TOO. UM, AND THERE HAS BEEN A VERY DISTINCT RISE IN CRIME IN OUR AREA AND IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. UM, US AS A COMMUNITY, WE'RE ALREADY DEALING WITH DEVELOPER STUFF AND ALL THE REST OF THAT, WHICH IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE, UH, CONVERSATION, BUT IT IS A CONCERN. UM, IT IS A CONCERN FOR THE ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC. UM, I RETIRED FROM THE AIR FORCE. WE CAME BACK HERE TO SAN ANTONIO, UM, BECAUSE MY WIFE AND I LOVE IT DOWN HERE, ESPECIALLY IN HILL COUNTRY. AND WE FOUND BERNIE AND WANTED TO MOVE HERE. IT WAS BETWEEN HERE AND KERRVILLE. AND KERRVILLE WAS JUST WAY OUTSIDE OF SAN ANTONIO. UM, AND WE MOVED HERE FOR A REASON. THE COMMUNITY, THE SAFETY, SO ON AND SO FORTH. UM, SO PLEASE KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN YOU GUYS ARE GOING THROUGH AND LOOKING AT THIS. UH, AND THEN LASTLY ON THE ZONING CORRECTION, I WOULD HONESTLY, I REQUEST, UM, AND SUGGEST TO MYSELF THAT THIS EITHER BE TABLED AND, OR IT GOES BACK TO THE STAFF AND THE PLANNING COMMITTEE AND THE LAWYERS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE HERE AMONGST BERNIE, UH, BERNIE COMMUNITY GOVERNMENT TO GO BACK AND TAKE A LOOK AT AND, UH, REEVALUATE BECAUSE IT'S OBVIOUSLY NOT CORRECT AND THERE ARE ERRORS IN THERE, ISSUES AND RED FLAGS WITH IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR. MR. ANDREWS. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO COME FORWARD AND SPEAK DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENTS SECTION? LAST CALL? YES. YES MA'AM. PLEASE COME ON DOWN. WE'RE ALL NEIGHBORS HERE. YES, WE ARE. GOOD TO SEE YOU. GOOD TO SEE YOU. HI, I AM SHERRY LAYTON, UH, 1 29 KITTY CAT LANE. UM, I'M GONNA JOIN THE UNPOPULAR GROUP AND ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SOME, UH, I THINK, HELPFUL COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE THIS EVENING, SOME THINGS THAT, THAT I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS WELL IN TERMS OF FENCING AND LIGHTING AND SECURITY AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. UM, I, I CONTINUE TO HEAR PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WE'RE DESTROYING, WE'RE DESTROYING BURNING, WE'RE DESTROYING THE CULTURE OF BERNIE, THE REPRESENTATION OF BERNIE. AND THIS IS [00:55:01] ON INTERSTATE 10. IF WE SAY, IF WE LOOK AROUND THAT AND WE SAY THIS IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CULTURE OF BERNIE, THEN BERNIE IS ALL ABOUT CAR DEALERSHIPS, RV RETAILERS, STORAGE FACILITIES AND FARM EQUIPMENT RETAILERS. THERE'S REALLY NOTHING OUT THERE THAT SAYS THIS IS THE PERSONALITY OF BERNIE. SO I DON'T SEE THIS AS, AS HAVING A HUGE IMPACT ON WHO WE ARE AS A CITY OR WHO WE ARE AS A SMALL TOWN OR A COMMUNITY. UM, AND AGAIN, THE, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH OF THIS IS WHAT Y'ALL ARE REALLY CONSIDERING TONIGHT. A THE GENTLEMAN WHO TALKED ABOUT THIS IS A SPECIFIC ISSUE FOR A SPECIFIC PIECE OF LAND AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE TALKING ABOUT SCRAP THE WHOLE THING AND START OVER. I REALLY DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S ON YOUR AGENDA THIS EVENING. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SHERRY, DID YOU WALK DOWN HERE THIS EVENING OR DID YOU? NO, A LITTLE WARM. OKAY. SHERRY'S MY NEIGHBOR, BY THE WAY. KEEP THE FOSSIL FUEL PEOPLE. OKAY. ALRIGHT, GOOD. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO COME DOWN, BRING THE PUBLIC COMMENTS? I, I'D LIKE TO JUST ADD ONE THING YOU SAID, WE GOT THREE MINUTES AND THREE MINUTES. UM, I DO WANNA JUST REMIND EVERYONE THAT PUBLIC OPINION WAS PUSHED INTO THIS AND THAT PUBLIC OPINION WAS, UH, MANY OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE'VE MADE HAVE TO DO WITH PUBLIC OPINION, UM, FOR THIS WHOLE PROJECT. UM, AND THEN SECONDLY, JUST TO SAY SOMETHING OF, OF OPPOSITION, I GUESS TO THE LAST COMMENT IS JUST THAT COMMERCIAL IS ONE THING. BUCKY'S AND 7,000 CARS IS ANOTHER. AND SO, UM, ONCE WE, WHAT WE'RE ALL REALIZING AND HAVING THE FEAR OF IS THAT ONCE BUCKY STARTS, THERE'S NO CHANGING ANYTHING. IT HAS TO BE NOW WE HAVE TO HAVE TIME. YOU GUYS HAVE TO HAVE TIME TO SEE EVERYTHING, TO, TO WORK ON EVERYTHING. WHETHER IT'S THE TRAFFIC ISSUES, WHETHER IT'S THE, THE SIGN HEIGHT OR WHATEVER. ALL OF THE, AS FAR AS I, I REMEMBER THE CAR DEALERSHIPS, THEIR SIGNS AREN'T 75 FEET TALL. THEY'RE ASKING, BUCKY'S IS ASKING FOR MORE. AND I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION JUST IS BUCKY'S HERE IN OUR, IS A REPRESENTATIVE OF BUCKY'S IN HERE? I'M NOT SURE, BUT THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION. UH, ANYTHING ELSE MS. ACKERMAN? UH, THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT WE HAVE ASKED BUCKY'S MULTIPLE TIMES TO MEET WITH, WITH NEIGHBORHOOD HOAS. WE'VE ASKED THEM TO MEET AT, AT THE CITY AND THEY'VE DECLINED EVERY TIME. AND THEY, AGAIN, ALTHOUGH WE WERE TOLD THEY WOULD BE HERE TODAY, AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT HERE. THANK YOU. MR. CRANE IS A REPRESENTATIVE FROM BUCKY'S HERE THIS EVENING. UM, NATHAN'S ADVISED ME THEY'RE NOT, BUT THIS IS THE CITY'S APPLICATION. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, THEY'RE NOT THE APPLICATION. IT MAY BE THE CITY'S APPLICATION, BUT I WOULD'VE THOUGHT THEY WOULD'VE DONE US THE COURTESY, AT LEAST COMING DOWN HERE AND, AND BEING A PART OF THIS DISCUSSION, UH, THIS EVENING. UM, BECAUSE ONE QUESTION I'VE GOT AND MR. MR. CRANE, YOU MIGHT GO BACK 'CAUSE I'M GONNA OFFICIALLY CLOSE THEN THE PUBLIC COMMENTS PORTION OF TONIGHT'S AGENDA. AND WE'RE GONNA REVERT BACK TO ITEM FIVE. ACE, MR. CRANE. UM, WE HAVEN'T YET BEEN TOLD WHAT THE USE OF THIS PARCEL IS GOING TO BE. NORMALLY WHEN WE TAKE UP ZONING MATTERS, AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE GIVEN A USE. WHAT IS THE USE OF THIS PARCEL? PROPOSED USE? PROPOSED USE IS AN ACCESSORY PARKING LOT. ALL OF IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE PARKING. MM-HMM . AND DRAINAGE AND RETENTION. THAT'S IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, I'M JUST CURIOUS 'CAUSE INITIALLY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PAD SITES, FOR RETAIL PAD SITES. INITIALLY IT WAS INITIALLY YES. AND NOW IT'S JUST ALL PARKING. YES, SIR. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. UH, YOU DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WANTED TO REVERT TO ALL PARKING INSTEAD OF THE FOUR RETAIL PAD SITES, DO YOU? NOT SPECIFICALLY. NO. I THINK IT'S A, THEY FELT THAT THE, UH, ALLOWING THIS AREA TO BE EMPLOYEE PARKING WOULD BETTER SERVE THEIR CUSTOMERS. OKAY. MS. STARK, YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TO ADD. IT WAS SPECIFICALLY A SPACE ISSUE. THEY NEEDED A SPACE FOR THEIR EMPLOYEE PARKING. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ROOM FOR THE ADDITIONAL PAD SITES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. UM, SO NOW WE'RE BACK ON ITEM FIVE A BEFORE I OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, UM, ANY QUESTIONS OF THE COMMISSION OF STAFF? IF NOT, THEN I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, UM, ON ITEM FIVE A. NOW, AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, ITEM FIVE, A PUBLIC HEARING IS MEANT TO FOCUS ON THE QUESTION OF ZONING. SO COMMENTS RELATED TO SIGNAGE, DARK SKIES, ET CETERA. THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION A MINUTE AGO, SO YOU ALL COULD EXPRESS YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING BUCKY'S RELATED AS A MATTER OF LAW. NOW WE'VE TURNED TO A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE MATTER BEFORE US, WHICH IS STRICTLY [01:00:01] A ZONING MATTER. SO IF YOU'VE LIKE TO COME DOWN AND JUST COMMENT ON THE ZONING PORTION OF THIS ITEM, THAT WOULD BE TERRIFIC. AS YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WATCH WHAT WE DO HERE EVERY MONTH, WE'RE ALWAYS BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO GIVE PUBLIC COMMENT AND CITIZEN PARTICIPATION TONIGHT IS NO EXCEPTION. IF THERE'S SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS OR RAISE SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO THE ZONING MATTER BEFORE US, THEN PLEASE COME FORWARD NOW. YES, SIR. MR. MATHIS, AND AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT THREE MINUTES. OKAY. IT'LL BE SHORT. THANK YOU. YOU, I TAKE THE THREE MINUTES. YOU GET IT. I HAD TWO THAT ARE BASICALLY QUESTIONS. UM, IN THIS CI DOCUMENTATION THAT THE CITY RELEASED, UM, MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S FIVE PARCELS THAT ARE WITHIN THIS PLOT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THE CITY DOCUMENTATION DIDN'T DESCRIBE ALL FIVE OF THOSE PARCELS SO THAT IT DIDN'T ADD UP TO THE 5.15 ACRES. SO I'D BE INTERESTED IN CLARIFICATION ABOUT WHAT THOSE PARCELS ARE AND HOW BIG THEY ARE IN THE, IN THE AREA WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND THE SECOND ITEM, UM, UH, THE QUESTION IS, DID TDOT JOIN THE CITY IN THE REZONING OF THE PLOT UNDER CONSIDERATION TO BE TWO? UM, THIS WAS NOT DOCUMENTED IN THE MATERIALS PROVIDED BY THE CITY, AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE CITY CAN'T BY ITSELF REZONE, UH, WHAT WAS TDOT PROPERTY. SO IT'S A QUESTION. IT DID TEXT. IS THE DOCUMENTATION THERE THAT TDOT THAT THIS WAS PROCEDURALLY DONE? RIGHT. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. THERE'S ACTUALLY A LETTER FROM TXDOT, UH, MR. CRANE. HE HAD TWO QUESTIONS. COULD YOU RESPOND TO BOTH PLEASE? YES. SO, UH, YES, THIS IS A, UM, TDOT DOES HAVE A LETTER, UH, AUTHORIZING THE, UH, REZONING OF THE PROPERTY. HAVE HAS, I WAS ABLE TO FIND THAT IN OUR RECORDS AS FAR AS THE, UH, FIVE PARCELS. I'D PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE TO TALK TO YOU OFFLINE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. UH, IF YOU WANT, UH, UH, AND PULL UP THE KENNEL COUNTY MAP AND WE CAN GO OVER THAT. BUT, OKAY. THANK YOU MR. MATHIS FOR COMING FORWARD AGAIN. AND BY THE WAY, FOR HOSTING THAT GATHERING IN YOUR HOUSE LAST WEEK. YES MA'AM. HI, LINDA. PLUCK AGAIN. I UNDERSTOOD AGAIN THAT IT IS, UH, ZONING AND ESPECIALLY NOW WHAT WE'VE HEARD. UM, PLEASE DON'T PAVE PARADISE TO PUT IN A PARKING LOT. AND YES, I UNDERSTAND IT'S ON I 10 AND IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BECOME COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, BUT LET'S NOT MAKE IT BUCKY'S. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR FOCUSING ON THE ISSUE BEFORE US, A ZONING MATTER FOR A PARKING LOT. THANK YOU, MA'AM. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO SPEAK TO THAT ITEM? MR. MCARA, PLEASE COME FORWARD, UH, JUST TO, UH, AGREE WITH WHAT THEY SAID. AND THERE'S, THIS ISN'T A REZONING TO A BUCKYS, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. WE'RE REZONING TO COMMERCIAL OR IT'S NOT EVEN A REZONING WE'RE ASSIGNING TO COMMERCIAL. THAT'S, I I WOULD QUESTION IF YOU'RE NOT GOING WITH BEAT WITH, UH, COMMERCIAL, WHAT, WHAT WOULD YOU ASSIGN THIS? YOU DON'T. THANK YOU. WE'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION. UH, BY THE WAY, FOLKS, THE PUBLIC HEARING IS FOR Y'ALL TO SHARE YOUR VIEWS WITH US. UM, IN FACT, I'LL JUST ASK MR. CRANE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION YOU JUST ANSWERED. MR. MATHIS TWO QUESTIONS. MR. CRANE, WOULD YOU RESPOND TO HIS QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD BE THE ZONING FOR THIS AND WHAT TYPICALLY WOULD WE DO? UH, TYPICALLY WHAT WE DO IS THE PROCESS THAT, UH, WE WENT OVER PREVIOUSLY. WE WOULD LOOK AT THE AUTO ORIENTED, WE LOOK AT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, SEE WHAT THE PROPERTY IS DESIGNATED, AND THEN FIND THE APPROPRIATE ZONING DISTRICT FOR THAT DESIGNATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? MS. RUDD, DO YOU WANNA COME DOWN AND TALK TO THE ZONING ITEM? YES, PLEASE DO. REGARDING THE ZONING, UM, I JUST HEARD THAT THE BUCKY'S WANTS A PARKING AREA NOW, AND THIS RELATES TO ONE OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES. WHEN YOU HAVE MORE PARKING, ONE OF THE PROTECTIONS THAT BUCKY'S HAS IS OIL, WATER SEPARATORS. THOSE ARE NOT FOOLPROOF. THOSE ARE MEANT TO PREVENT GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION WITH MORE PARKING. I DON'T HAVE THE MAP IN FRONT OF ME. I'M NOT THE ENGINEER, BUT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS YOU'RE GONNA HAVE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF OVERLOAD OF RUNOFF DURING ONE OF OUR FLOOD EVENTS. THE MORE IMPERVIOUS COVER, THE MORE, DEPENDING ON WHERE IT'S LOCATED, THE MORE RISK THAT WE COULD BE PLACED ON THESE OIL WATER SEPARATORS. IN THE EVENT WE HAVE A PROLONGED DROUGHT, A GREAT ACCUMULATION OF, UH, HYDROCARBONS ON THE GROUND FROM SPILLAGE, ET CETERA, THEN WHEN YOU HAVE A FLOOD EVENT, THAT'S GONNA BE MORE STRAIN ON WHATEVER MITIGATORS THEY PUT FOR THE OIL, WATER SEPARATION, WHATEVER ELSE, WHATEVER ELSE THEY TRY TO DO. SO IN MY MIND, THIS IS JUST ONE OTHER ISSUE OF THE MANY HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS WE HAVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MS. RUDD. ANYONE ELSE? YES, MS. ANDREWS. JUST A COUPLE CLARIFYING [01:05:01] QUESTIONS REAL QUICK. UM, WHEN THIS WENT FROM TDOT TO BUCKY'S, WHAT WAS IT? ZONED? B TWO. B TWO. SO BUCKY'S BOUGHT IT KNOWING IT WAS B TWO. CORRECT. AND THERE WERE NO CONCERNS THERE? CORRECT. IF WE REZONE THIS TO WHATEVER WE'RE TRYING TO DO, C TWO THREE, WHATEVER, C NUMBER ONE, UM, IT WILL ALWAYS STAY THAT WAY. AND IT'LL ALWAYS HAVE TO BE A PARKING LOT. EVEN IF BUCKY DECIDES TO PULL THE CORD, IT HAS TO BE A PARKING LOT OR NOT. WE WOULD ALLOW ANY COMMERCIAL USE ALLOWED IN C3. OKAY. THAT WAS MY QUESTION. THANK YOU, MS. ANDREWS. ANYONE ELSE? YES. YES, MS. PATTON? YEAH, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE THERE WAS DISCUSSION ALONG THE WAY IN THE PAST 10 YEARS, UH, ABOUT BUCKY'S HAVING THOSE, THE ABILITY TO HAVE PAD SITES THERE. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN, AND IT REVERTS BACK TO THAT AT THE TIME, THE CITY OF BERNIE ALSO GAVE BUCKY'S THE SALES TAX REVENUES FROM THE SITES THAT THEY WOULD BE PUTTING FAST FOOD SITES, FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS, WHATEVER, MORE, MORE LIGHTS, MORE TRAFFIC, MORE PARKING, AND ALSO CITY REVENUE GOING DIRECTLY TO BUCKY'S FROM THE OTHER TENANTS THAT THEY WOULD BE, UM, SUBLEASING OR SELLING TO. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS FOR, BUT I, I DID WANNA RAISE THAT POINT. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING SO. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO TALK TO THE ITEM OF THE ZONING BEFORE US? YES, SIR. COME FORWARD, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. JOHN WA TAKE YOUR TIME. WE'RE IN NO HURRY. TAKING NINE YEARS TO GET TO THIS POINT. WE CAN WAIT A FEW MORE SECONDS. JOHN WALDRON 200 MADONE TRAIL. UM, I THINK WHAT YOUR ISSUE HERE TODAY IS YOU FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE, IS IT'S REALLY PROCEDURAL AT THIS POINT. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME AS AN ATTORNEY, AND I DON'T KNOW THE RULES, I DON'T KNOW YOUR RULE BOOK, IS THAT ORIGINALLY THERE WAS AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF THREE POINT SOME ACRES, AND NOW TONIGHT IT'S FIVE SOMETHING. AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT THAT'S A CORRECTION. I DON'T THINK THAT'S ALLOWED. I THINK IF WE'RE DISCUSSING A PIECE OF PROPERTY AND GET, DON'T GET ME IF I'M WRONG. THIS HAS TO BE SPECIFIC. I WAS A REALTOR IN SAN ANTONIO FOR 20 YEARS. IF I HAD A CLIENT THAT WENT TO GET A PIECE OF PROPERTY REZONED, AND WE WALKED INTO A MEETING AND ALL OF A SUDDEN IT WENT FROM THREE ACRES TO FIVE, I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE YOU SAN UM, UM, SAN ANTONIO DEVELOPMENT WOULD'VE SAID, SLOW YOUR ROLL, GET YOUR STUFF TOGETHER AND COME BACK IN. SO IF EVERYBODY'S CONCERNED ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES, BUT WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO IS THEY JUST WANT THINGS DONE RIGHT. AND, AND IF YOU'RE HERE DOING THIS AND WE'RE GOING FROM THREE AND A HALF TO FIVE SOMETHING WITH BASICALLY LAST MINUTE CLARIFICATION, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT CORRECT. I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT IS NOT PROCEDURALLY CORRECT AS FAR AS I KNOW. THIS IS JUST ME APPLYING WHAT I KNOW ABOUT, ABOUT ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER THAT IT, IT NEEDS TO BE TABLED JUST FOR THAT. SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING I WANNA DEAL WITH. BUT I THINK EVERYBODY HERE FEELS THE SAME WAY. LET'S TAKE IT STEP BY STEP. SLOW THE ROLL AND DO THIS. CORRECT. AND THAT'S JUST NOT CORRECT. THANK YOU. WELL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHTFUL COMMENTS, MR. RIDGES. ANYONE ELSE WANNA COME DOWN AND TALK? MR. RUSSELL, DID YOU WANNA COME BACK FOR NO, I'M DONE. OH, WE HAVEN'T EVEN FINISHED YET. UM, YOU'RE LEAVING ME BEFORE THE END OF THE MOVIE. I MADE MOVIES LIKE THAT. . I KNOW. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. WELL THEN AT THIS POINT, UM, THERE'LL BE NO ONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PUBLIC HEARING. I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE TO COMMISSION DISCUSSION. MR. FRIAR, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO MAKE SOME OPENING REMARKS. UM, FIRST I WANNA SAY THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE. AND I LOOK OUT IN THE ROOM AND I RECOGNIZE A LOT OF YOU, AND NOT JUST FROM INGER SPRINGS AND NOT JUST FROM REGENT PARK, BUT ALL OVER THE CITY AND EVEN SOME OUTSIDE OF THE CITY. AND I THINK IT'S COMMENDABLE OF THE RESEARCH THAT YOU'VE DONE AND THE CARE THAT YOU'VE TAKEN FOR NOT JUST THIS TOPIC. SOMETIMES WE SEE YOU ON OTHER TOPICS AS WELL. UM, I HAVE SO MANY PAGES OF NOTES. I HAVE AN IPAD, I HAVE MY COMPUTER, I HAVE STUFF EVERYWHERE. SO, UM, AND I'M SURE THERE'S LOTS OF COMMENTS THAT ARE COMING, UM, TO MS. ANDREW'S. LAST QUESTION. ZONING STAYS WITH THE PROPERTY, WHETHER THIS IS BUCKY'S OR THEY SELL IT TO SOMEONE ELSE, WHATEVER USES ARE AVAILABLE FOR THAT ZONING IS WHAT THE LANDOWNER CAN BUILD. AND SO THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO UNDERSTAND AND Y'ALL TO UNDERSTAND. 'CAUSE THAT'S A HUGE PART OF OUR CONSIDERATION TONIGHT, IS IT'S NOT THE PARKING LOT THAT WE'RE HUNG UP ON, OR MAYBE THE PARKING LOT'S BETTER THAN THE [01:10:01] PAD SITES BECAUSE IT IS LESS TRAFFIC, IT IS LESS WATER. YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF BENEFITS TO THE PARKING LOT, BUT WE CAN'T GUARANTEE AFTER TODAY THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A PARKING LOT. WHATEVER ZONING WE GIVE THEM, THEY WILL HAVE MULTIPLE USES THAT CAN BE DONE WITH IT. SO I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. UM, I ALSO THINK THAT ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS TODAY AND ALL OF OUR THOUGHTS OVER THESE LAST TWO MONTHS THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN THINKING, PONDERING, LISTENING, READING MANY, MANY, MANY EMAILS THAT HAVE COME IN FROM CITIZENS, FROM STAFF, FROM ATTORNEYS, FROM EVERYBODY, IS THAT THIS DECISION TONIGHT IS, IS CRITICAL FOR ALL THE REASONS YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT. BUT IT'S NOT JUST A ZONING IN MY MIND. WE'RE NOT JUST LOOKING AT THE ZONING OF THIS PARCEL AS A MICROSCOPIC PIECE. IT IS ONE PIECE, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN ON AND SITTING IN THIS SEAT ON THIS COMMISSION, IS THAT WE, AS, AS A GROUP HAVE BEEN VERY DILIGENT IN LOOKING AT THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. AND I'M GONNA USE THE EXAMPLE THAT JUST BECAUSE THE SURROUNDING AREA IS C3, AND THAT'S CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND, I WOULD VENTURE TO GUESS THAT WE WOULD NOT, WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT A MULTIFAMILY PROJECT AS AN EXAMPLE. THERE'S NOT MULTIFAMILY PROJECTS NEXT TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN DILIGENT ENOUGH TO NOT DO THAT PURPOSEFULLY. SO I'M NOT SURE THAT C3 IS THE RIGHT ANSWER FOR THIS PARCEL, JUST BECAUSE IT, THE SURROUNDING AREA IS EITHER. SO I BEG TO QUESTION, IS C ONE OR SOMETHING LESS INVASIVE? UM, GIVEN THE DENSITY AND THE, THE IMPACT, THE MASSIVE IMPACT THAT BUCKY'S WILL HAVE ON THIS AREA, THAT MAYBE A LESSER ZONING FOR THIS PARCEL WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE. UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO DIGEST ALL OF THIS TO MAKE A DECISION TONIGHT, BUT I THINK WE GOT A LOT, A LOT ON OUR PLATE. SO I'M GONNA OPEN WITH THAT. OKAY. AND LET THE REST OF Y'ALL HAVE A TURN FOR NOW. MR. HOWARD. THANK YOU. FIRST, I JUST WANT EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM TO KNOW HOW APPRECIATIVE I AM FOR THE RESEARCH THAT YOU'VE DONE. I'VE DONE A BUNCH ON MY OWN. IN FACT, IT'S A LOT OF, IT'S RIGHT HERE. IT'S A LOT OF PAPER. UM, AND WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE'VE ALSO TONIGHT HAVE TO LOOK AT THE THREE OR THE FIVE ACRES, WHICHEVER IT IS, UM, ON THE ZONING. AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO LOOK AT TONIGHT. THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, I'VE RECEIVED EMAILS AS LATE AS LAST NIGHT AND TODAY ABOUT THE TOTAL BUCKY'S PROJECT. AND SO YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT FACTORS COMING IN INTO MIND. UM, AND AS RECENT AS LAST NIGHT AS CITY MANAGER SENT A GREAT EMAIL FROM STAN BEARD THAT, UM, CAME FROM, OR, OR THAT WAS, I, I GUESS, UH, SENT TO COUNCILMAN MACALUSO, UM, STATING ALL OF THE THINGS THAT BUCKY'S HAS DONE OVER THE YEARS TO IMPROVE THEIR DEVELOPMENT AND STATING THAT THEY WON'T DO ANYTHING ADDITIONAL. AND SO THEN YOU HAVE THOSE FACTORS COMING INTO MIND AS WELL. AND THEN I HAVE TO REEL MYSELF BACK IN AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE ONLY LOOKING AT A ZONING REQUEST. AND SO THE NEXT LINE OF QUESTIONS THAT I'M GOING TO ASK ARE ONLY GONNA BE WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF THAT ZONING REQUEST. I HAVE QUESTIONS ON LIGHTING. I HAVE TRA QUESTIONS ON TRAFFIC. I HAVE QUESTIONS ON THE HISTORY, THE SIGN, NOBODY, NOBODY, EVEN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN FAVOR OF BUCKY'S, THE VERY FEW THAT ARE HERE AGREE, THE SIGN'S NOT DESIRABLE. UM, AND SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND THEN I HAVE A MOTION IN MIND. AND IF YOU KNOW ME AT THIS DIOCESE, I'M QUICK TO GET A MOTION OUT AND GET THIS GOING SO WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS THAT ARE, ARE, UH, FOLKS THAT ARE HERE IN THE INTEREST OF THEIR AGENDA ITEMS. SO FIRST I JUST WANNA ASK, WE'VE HEARD A LOT ABOUT TRAFFIC STUDY. UM, I THINK A TRAFFIC STUDY IS A VALID QUESTION FOR ANY ZONING, PARTICULARLY EMPLOYEE PARKING OR SOMETHING ADJACENT TO A LARGE DEVELOPMENT. UM, WITH, WITH THAT BEING SAID, FOR THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL PARCELS AND TRAFFIC STUDY, CAN WE ADD ANY CLARITY ON TIMELINES OR WHERE THOSE MAY BE? YES, THE, UH, TRACK, UH, STUDY IS UNDER REVIEWED. UH, WE'VE PROVIDED COMMENTS BACK TO BUCKY'S AND WE'RE WAITING FOR A RESUBMITTAL. SO THERE'S A RECENT TRAFFIC STUDY THAT HAS BEEN CONDUCTED. THE CITY'S PROVIDED COMMENTS. I'LL, I'LL LET JEFF GET INTO, UH, SPECIFIC DETAIL, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT'S BEEN THROUGH A NUMBER OF REVIEWS OVER THE YEARS AND THEY NEED TO ADDRESS [01:15:01] SOME COMMENTS. OKAY. WELL, MR. CARROLL, WHAT YOU MIGHT COMING FOR YOU WERE COMING FORWARD ANYWAY 'CAUSE YOU KNEW WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK. RIGHT. UM, WOULD YOU JUST GIVE US THE, I DON'T WANNA SAY 30,000 FOOT VIEW, BUT I WANT RE REALLY DETAILED VIEW ON THE STATUS OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY. WHERE DO WE STAND ON THAT AT THE MOMENT? UM, SO EVENING COMMISSIONERS, UM, SO WE DO HAVE A TRAFFIC STUDY. ONE HAS BEEN SUBMITTED FOR THE BUCKY'S STORE ITSELF. AND SO THIS ASSOCIATED PARKING IS PART OF THE ASSOCIATED PACKAGE OF THE BUCKY STORE. UM, SO THERE'S MULTIPLE ROUNDS OF REVIEWS AND THAT'S VERY NORMAL. AS YOU GUYS MIGHT HAVE HEARD IN THE PAST, THE DRAINAGE AND TRAFFIC STUDIES SOMETIMES TAKE 2, 3, 4 ROUNDS WITH THE, THE CITY REVIEW TEAM. UM, SO IT HAS BEEN REVIEWED. UH, WE HAVE PROVIDED COMMENTS, SOME OF THOSE REVIEW COMMENTS, WE MAKE OUR COMMENTS WITHIN A COUPLE WEEKS, AND THEN IT TAKES A YEAR. ONE OF THE TIMES WAS NINE MONTHS, ONE WAS ABOUT A YEAR TO GET THE COMMENTS BACK, AND THEN WE REVIEWED AGAIN AND SENT IT BACK. SO WE, ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, WE MADE OUR FOURTH ROUND OF REVIEWS AND PROVIDED SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS BACK. AND SO WE ARE IN A WAITING MODE NOW TO SEE WHEN THEY PROVIDE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS BACK TO TRY TO ADDRESS OUR CONCERNS. SO A TIMELINE, WOULD YOU EXPECT, WHEN WILL THAT ALL BE FINALIZED? SO GOING BACK ON THEIR PAST PERFORMANCE, IT TOOK 'EM ANYWHERE FROM NINE MONTHS TO A YEAR TO RESPOND TO US. I'M IMAGINING IT'S GONNA BE QUICKER THIS TIME, BUT UH, THAT'S WHAT IT'S TAKEN IN THE PAST NINE MONTHS TO A YEAR. I'M JUST GOING BY WHAT THEY'VE DONE IN THE PAST, BUT IT SHOULD ONLY HAVE TAKEN, IT'S A RELATIVELY MINOR COMMENTS. IT SHOULD TAKE A COUPLE WEEKS TO RESPOND TO. OKAY. IS THAT'S YOUR WINDOW? NINE MONTHS TO A YEAR? YEP. YEAH. I GUESS BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION, WHEN WAS THIS STUDY CONDUCTED? SO THE VERY FIRST TRAFFIC STUDY WAS DATED 2016 BASED ON SOME VOLUME. IF YOU REMEMBER, THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE BEEN IN BURNING IN A WHILE, REMEMBER FRONTAGE ROADS WERE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. THE BRIDGE WAS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. UM, SO THERE WAS AN ORIGINAL TRAFFIC STUDY THAT WAS DONE IN THAT TIME. UM, THE CITY ACTUALLY DIDN'T GET, THE CITY DIDN'T RECEIVE THE STUDY FOR A YEAR OR TWO LATER. AND WE REVIEWED THE FIRST ROUND, UM, ON THE SECOND ROUND AS THE CONSTRUCTION WAS STILL UNDERWAY. AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE COMMENTS IN THE SECOND ROUND WAS WE NEED TO UPDATE THIS WITH THE NEW CONFIGURATION OF THE FRONTAGE ROADS AND THE BRIDGE. UM, SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE OUTSTANDING COMMENTS. AND THEN IN THE THIRD AND FOURTH ROUND, SOME OF THE COMMENTS WERE, THE TRAFFIC STUDY IS DATED TO THE FACT THAT THE STORE WOULD'VE ALREADY BEEN OPENED BASED ON THE DATES AND PROJECTIONS OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY. AND SO WE'VE ASKED THEM TO UPDATE THE TRAFFIC COUNTS AND THE PROJECTED BUILD OUT OF THE STORE, UM, TO MATCH THE CURRENT TIMELINE INSTEAD OF THE PREVIOUS TIMELINE. SO REALLY 2016 IS WHEN THE STUDY WAS CONDUCTED IN IT? IT HAS, BUT THEY'VE UPDATE MINOR MODIFICATIONS. THEY'VE UPDATED A COUPLE TIMES. THEY'VE RECOUNTED MULTIPLE TIMES ALONG THE WAY. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, MOVING ON, UH, JEFF, I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE. I'M, UH, GOING TO ASSUME TRAFFIC STUDY WAS DONE IN 2016. UM, AND THEN THERE'S BEEN SOME QUESTIONS ASKED REGARDING, UM, THIS B TWO ZONING THAT WAS GRANTED TO TXDOT AND THEN IT WAS NOT CARRIED OVER WHEN THE UDC WAS ADOPTED, BUT THEN TEX OR THEN BUCKY'S DID NOT TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY UNTIL THIS YEAR. UH, YOU HAVE TWO DATES WHERE THEY REQUIRED SOME OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS 2023 AND 2025. OKAY. DOES THIS ZONING THAT WE'RE APPLYING TODAY CONFORM TO THE CURRENT UDC? UH, WOULD YOU EXPLAIN YOUR WE HAVE UUD C THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE IN 2021. YES. THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING, THAT'S WHY THE PROPOSAL IS BEFORE YOU, SO, RIGHT. SO ANY DEVELOPMENT THAT'S DONE TO THIS FIVE ACRES ON ON CORRECT. DOES IT, DOES IT ON THE, ON, ON THE SITE THAT NOT INCLUDED IN THE SUBMITTAL FROM 2019? ANYTHING PAST THAT WOULD HAVE TO MEET OUR CURRENT CODE? YES. SO THE PARKING LOT, DETENTION AREAS, THAT KIND OF STUFF THAT WE'VE MENTIONED. OKAY. SO, SO THE FIVE ACRES, THEN, IF WE LOOK AT DARK SKIES, FOR EXAMPLE, AND PARKING LIKE THIS PORTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT WILL COMPLY WITH DARK SKIES, BUT THE REMAINDER WILL NOT. YEAH. IT MIGHT BE USEFUL FOR ME TO EXPLAIN THAT VESTING ISSUE BRIEFLY. SURE. UH, ANYTIME AND OWNER OR DEVELOPER OF PROPERTY ASKS WITH A COMPLETED APPLICATION FOR ANY APPROVAL OR A PERMIT FROM THE CITY, IN THIS CASE, IT WAS A PLAT FILED IN 2019. STATE LAW FREEZES ALL OF OUR DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS IN PLACE AS OF THAT DATE. AND THAT'S WHAT WE CAN APPLY. THAT VESTING APPLIES TO DARK SKIES AND THAT VESTING APPLIES TO TREE [01:20:01] PRESERVATION AND MANY OTHER FACTORS, SOME OF WHICH ARE IN THE ZONING OR ORDINANCE. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ZONING USE. WE CAN STILL CHANGE THE USES ON ZONING. AND WE'VE DONE THAT. WE'VE GOT THE NEW UDC, IT'S BEEN A COMPREHENSIVE CHANGE OF OUR ZONING SCHEME. UH, SO THAT IS THE PERMIT. THE PERMIT THAT APPLIED TO THIS PROJECT WAS THE PLAT IN 2019. THE ADDITIONAL FIVE ACRES, FIVE PLUS ACRES WAS NOT PART OF THAT PROJECT. SO IT DID NOT VEST IN 2019 AND INVEST HAD A LATER DATE. WHAT WAS THAT DATE, MR. EY? I DON'T KNOW THE DATE. IT'S CURRENT OCTOBER 9TH. NO, SO THE CURRENT IS CURRENT, SO IT'S 2025. SO 2025. THIS PARCEL WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS EVENING, EXCEPT FOR WHAT WAS PLATTED PRELIMINARY PLAT BACK IN 2019 WOULD BE UNDER THE NEW UDC COMPLETELY. YES, SIR. ALL THE DARK SKIES REQUIREMENTS. MM-HMM . LIGHTING, DRAINAGE, TENSION, ALL THAT STUFF. CORRECT. CORRECT. BUT NOT FUTURE CHANGES. YES. UNDERSTAND. OKAY. THAT'S THE WAY THAT BEST VESTING WORKS. THANK YOU. THAT'S VERY CLEAR. SO ONE QUESTION THAT'S COME UP QUITE A BIT, UM, IN REFERENCE TO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS CHAPTER 2 45. AND MR. MCCAMEY, I KNOW YOU PROVIDED A MEMO, YOU REFERENCED IT, BUT I I WANT FOR THE PUBLIC OKAY. TO HEAR YOUR INTERPRETATION OF CHAPTER 2 45, THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND WHY BUCKY'S IS NOT HELD OR WHY THEY HAVE NOT WAIVED THEIR RIGHT ALLEGEDLY TO I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION BECAUSE I'VE GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE HERE IN BURNING ON THAT ISSUE. UH, BACK, EVEN BEFORE SOME OF THE STATE LAWS WENT INTO EFFECT, BURNING WAS ENTERING INTO DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS WITH, WITH, UH, DEVELOPERS FOR THE LAST 20 OR 25 YEARS. UH, SINCE THAT TIME, STATE LAW HAS RECOGNIZED DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS SUCH AS WE HAD HERE, UH, THE VESTING STATUTE, CHAPTER 2 45 PREDATES ALL THAT TIME AND HAS CHANGED SOMEWHAT OVER THE YEARS, BUT FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, UH, DEVELOPMENT ATTORNEYS THROUGHOUT THE STATES STARTED CLAIMING THAT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONSTITUTED A PLAT, UH, CONSTITUTED THE SA A PERMIT THAT WAS SAME AS A PLAT OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES THAT WOULD VEST UPON SIGNING OF A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. SO AT THAT TIME, AND IT HAD TO BE LIKE 20 YEARS AGO AS WELL BEFORE ESPERANZA ANYWAY, UH, I STARTED SEEKING TO PUT THAT LANGUAGE IN EVERY DEVELOPMENT GREEN AND THEN BERNIE AND WITH VERY FEW, AND IT IS, IT IS ALSO INCLUDED IN THE ESPERANZA DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. UM, WITH VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS, WE'VE BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN NEGOTIATING THAT LANGUAGE, SUCH AS IT'S IN THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT SO THAT THE CHAPTER 2 45, UH, PERMIT THAT THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS NOT A PERMIT UNDER CHAPTER 2 45. UH, THAT LANGUAGE THAT'S IN THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS THE SAME LANGUAGE I DRAFTED 20 YEARS AGO, OR 18 YEARS AGO, WHENEVER THE FIRST LANGUAGE WAS PUT INTO THESE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS. AND, UH, IT'S INTENDED TO SAY, IF YOU, WHEN YOU VEST IS WHEN YOU START APPLYING FOR PERMITS UNDER THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE, THEY VESTED FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 2019, NOT IN 2016. SO IT'S STATING THAT THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS NOT PERMIT. SO MAYBE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION. THE, THE LAST SENTENCE OF SECTION THREE OF THE AGREEMENT WHERE CHAPTER 2 45 WAIVER IS REFERENCED, IT SAYS, THE SECTION SHALL, SHALL SURVIVE THE TERMINATION OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS TERMINATED, THEN WHY WOULD THERE NEED TO BE A CHAPTER 2 45 WAIVER? WELL, THAT DEPENDS ON THE TIMING OF THEIR OTHER PERMITS. OKAY. THEY, THEY, THEY MIGHT GO BACK AND CLAIM THAT THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS A NECESSARY PERMIT FOR THE PROJECT, EVEN IF IT HAD EXPIRED BECAUSE IT WAS A CONTINUING SERIES OF PERMITS. THAT'S WHAT THE STATUTE ACTUALLY SAYS, A SERIES OF PERMITS. I WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THAT PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT'S NOT A PERMIT IN A SERIES, WHETHER IT'S EXPIRED OR NOT. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THAT LANGUAGE COULD BE INTERPRETED DIFFERENTLY BY SOMEBODY IN YOUR PROFESSION? OH, MAYBE SO. UH, I'VE DONE A LOT OF LITIGATION OVER CHAPTER [01:25:01] 2 45 IN MY CAREER, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF IMAGINATIVE PEOPLE IN THAT FIELD. OKAY. THANK YOU. ONE OF 'EM SITTING RIGHT TO YOUR RIGHT. OH GOSH. , UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW IMAGINATIVE I AM MR. MCCAMEY, BUT, UM, I WOULDN'T GO TOE TO TOE WITH YOU IN A COURT OF LAW. UM, DO YOU MIND IF I ASK A FEW MORE? OH, ABSOLUTELY. NO, GO AHEAD. UM, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE HERE FOR. I WANNA LOOK AT THE ZONING NOW. SO C3, DOES CITY STAFF BY CHANCE HAVE ON HAND WHAT'S ALLOWABLE UNDER A C3 ZONING IF WE'RE STRICTLY LOOKING AT A PARKING LOT HERE TODAY? AND WHAT OTHER ZONINGS ARE PARKING LOTS. WE CAN PULL IT UP FOR YOU. DO YOU NEED SOME TIME MINUTE? YEAH. PULL IT. YEAH. AND MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION, THAT IS WHAT OTHER ZONINGS ALLOW PARKING LOTS? WELL, I JUST REFER YOU TO ARE USE TABLE THAT WOULD WE'LL PULL IT UP. THANK YOU. EVERYBODY ALLOWS PARKING LOTS ARE LOUD IN EVERY DISTRICT. SO THE GOOD NEWS IS ON THIS FIVE ACRES WE HAVE DARK SKIES, COMPLIANCE ENTRY ORDINANCE FOLLOWED UNDER CURRENT UDC, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT TODAY. UM, THE TRAFFIC STUDY NEEDS TO BE UPDATED. IT SEEMS LIKE A MAJORITY OF IT IS STILL FROM 2016. WE'VE ASKED SOME QUESTION ON 2 45 AND WE HAVE MR. MCCAIN'S, UH, INTERPRETATION. UM, ANOTHER QUESTION, ANOTHER QUESTION I HAD JOTTED DOWN HERE WAS A PORTION OF THIS FIVE ACRES IS BEING USED FOR WATER RETENTION. WHAT TYPE OF RAINFALL EVENT WILL THIS WATER RETENTION UNDER CURRENT UDC BE ABLE TO HANDLE? AND WILL ANY OF THAT STORM WATER RUN OFF FROM THE OTHER DEVELOPMENT OR THE OTHER PARCELS? WILL THIS WATER RETENTION STRICTLY BE USED FOR THE 5.133 ACRES, OR WILL IT ALSO BE USED FOR REMAINDER OF THE DEVELOPMENT? JEFF? UM, SO THE CURRENT PLAN, THE CURRENT UDC IS A HUNDRED YEAR DESIGN, BUT THE CITY OF BERNIE'S REQUIRED DESIGN TO THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM SINCE 2002. UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT DETENTION PONDS HAVE BEEN DESIGNED FOR. SO THE BUCKY'S SITE ITSELF AND THE NEW PARKING LOT ARE BOTH GONNA BE DESIGNED FOR THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT. UM, WHAT WE'VE SEEN SO FAR TODAY IS THE DETENTION PONDS ON THE NEW FIVE ACRE SITE IS TWO PONDS, ONE POND FOR THE BUCKY STORE AND ANOTHER POND FOR THE NEW PARKING LOT ITSELF. SO THERE'S TWO PONDS SIDE BY SIDE, AND THEY'RE DETENTION PONDS, AND THEY'RE ALSO THE WATER QUALITY PONDS. OKAY. AND WHAT KIND OF RAIN EVENT DO THOSE PONDS HAVE THE CAPACITY OF HANDLING BEFORE THEY OVERFLOW THE 100 YEAR STORM EVENT? OR HOW MANY INCHES OF RAIN? SO I SHOULD HAVE THIS MEMORIZED, BUT THE, IT VARIES BASED ON THE TIME OF STORM. UM, BUT IT IS 11 ISH INCHES IN A 24 HOUR PERIOD. OKAY. APPROXIMATELY. THANK YOU. SO, UH, COMMISSIONER HYER TO THANK YOU MR. CARROLL. YES. TO FOLLOW UP. UH, YOU'LL NOTICE ACCESSORY PARKING LOTS ARE PERMITTED IN ALL ZONING DISTRICTS. OH, OKAY. ALL COMMERCIAL. SO HOW MANY ALLOWABLE USES DOES C3 HAVE TOTAL? I DON'T. IT'S A LOT. C3. IT IS. YEAH. I MEAN, IF WE JUST NEED A PARKING LOT, DO WE REALLY NEED C3 ZONING? IF IT'S ALLOWABLE IN ALL ZONINGS, I MEAN, YOU, IT'S THE COMMISSION'S RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THE REC RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL. IF YOU FEEL A DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICT IS APPROPRIATE AT THIS LOCATION, UH, THEN YOU CAN CERTAINLY, UH, MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION. SO IN C3 ZONING, YOU, UH, AND THIS IS FROM MEMORY, I DON'T HAVE EVERY ZONING USE MEMORIZED, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. A 75 FOOT BUILDING IS ALLOWED IN C3 ZONING, SO I'D HAVE TO LOOK THAT UP SPECIFICALLY AND WE CAN DO THAT. UH, BUT AS, AS WE MENTIONED IN THE PRESENTATION, OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO GET AS CLOSE TO B TWO AS WE CAN. SO WE, SO AS FAR AS YOU'RE MAKING RECOMMENDATION, YOU WOULD HAVE TO SAY C ONE IS CLOSE TO B TWO AND THIS IS WHY, UH, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALLOWED UNDER THAT B TWO 'CAUSE THAT B TWO IS WHAT EXISTS TODAY. [01:30:01] SO IN OTHER WORDS, ESTABLISHING A RESIDENTIAL ZONE PROBABLY WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE BECAUSE OF THE B TWO ZONING EXISTING AS AN EXAMPLE. CAN YOU PULL UP WHAT B TWO WAS? WHAT DID B TWO ALLOW? I'M SORRY. I'M TAKING B TWO. OH, WE GOT PLENTY OF TIME. I BROUGHT SURE. THAT'LL TAKE A MINUTE. UM, CODE. DON'T LOSE THAT TAB THOUGH. THAT WAS VERY HELPFUL. B TWO WAS, UH, THE HEAVIEST OR HEAVIEST, UH, COMMERCIAL DISTRICT THAT WE HAD AT THE TIME. MR. CHAIRMAN, WHILE WE'RE LOOKING FOR THAT, I'M GONNA, YES, I'M GONNA SHARE MY THOUGHTS. UM, HERE YOU GO. HERE'S YOUR ANSWER. SO HERE'S YOUR B TWO. UH, ANYWHERE FROM OFFICE BUSINESS PARKS, MAJOR OFFICE COMPLEXES, GAS STATIONS, GAS STATIONS, FRONTING I 10. UH, THAT'S WHERE THIS ONE FALLS UNDER. CONVENIENCE STORES, BREW PUBS, FOOD VENDORS, RESTAURANTS. YOU CAN SEE IT. BASICALLY EVERY COMMERCIAL USE THAT WE HAVE ABOUT BIG BOX STORE. DO WE HAVE THAT SHOPPING CENTER? UM, RETAIL, GENERAL NEIGHBORHOOD MAJOR, UH, THRIFT STORES, AUTOMOBILE SALES RENTAL. OH, YEP. IT DIDN'T DISTINGUISH, IT DIDN'T SAY BIG BOX, SO IT WOULD JUST BE UNDER RETAIL. FAIR ENOUGH. MR. CHAIRMAN. UM, KIND OF GOING DOWN A LIMB HERE, BUT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION HERE, STAYING WITHIN THE PARAMETERS, I'LL, I'LL TELL YOU THE LAST TWO TO THREE WEEKS, THERE'S BEEN, LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT I'VE STUDIED AND I'M FAIRLY CERTAIN YOU MAY OR MAY NOT SEE THE SAME SENTIMENTS FROM MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS. I WANNA LOOK MUCH CLOSER AT THE ZONING USES OF B TWO. AND FOR C3, UM, THERE'S A TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS OR STUDY THAT'S DATED BACK TO 2016 THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S STILL GOING BACK AND FORTH. WE RECEIVED 12 PAGE BRIEFING AS OF I BELIEVE LAST WEEK. AND SOME COUNTER COMMENTS TO OUR COMMITTED CITIZENS THAT, UM, WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT. AND WHILE IT'S NOT NECESSARILY APPLICABLE TO THIS ZONING, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE THIS ITEM FOR 90 DAYS, UM, TO ALLOW US ADDITIONAL TIME TO LOOK AT IT. ADDITIONALLY, I CAN RECEIVED AN EMAIL LAST NIGHT THAT CAME FROM STAN BAIRD. AND THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE REGARDING JUST THE DEVELOPMENT OVERALL AND HOW IT APPLIES TO THIS PARTICULAR REQUEST FOR TONIGHT. UM, THERE'S MENTION OF DARK SKIES. THERE'S MENTION OF HVAC CONDENSATION, WHICH WOULDN'T APPLY TO A PARKING LOT. UM, LIGHTING PLAN REVISIONS. YES. THERE'S A, A LIST OF, OH, MAN. WELL, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S REALLY THREE PARAGRAPHS, BUT THEN ITEMS A THROUGH I WITH ROMAN NUMERALS ONE THROUGH FOUR UNDER THAT, I MEAN, IT GOES ON IT, IT ADDRESSES SECURITY, WHICH HAS COME UP TONIGHT. I GOT THIS, THIS MESSAGE YESTERDAY. UM, FORWARD IT TO ME AT AT 2:12 PM AND, AND DON'T LOOK AT MY CITY IPAD ON THE WEEKEND AND SAW IT THIS MORNING AFTER A SERIES OF PERSONAL MEETINGS. AND SO I'M, I'M ASKING FOR MORE TIME TO, TO ASK, AND I'VE PUT A MOTION ON THE TABLE. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND ABOUT COMMISSIONER FRIAR? OKAY. UM, UNDER ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDERS, THERE'S NO DISCUSSION ON A MOTION TO TABLE. LET ME, LET ME, UM, SINCE FOUR OF US HAVEN'T YET HAD A CHANCE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, WOULD, WOULD YOU BE WILLING, AND AND I UNDERSTAND THE REASONS FOR IT AND, AND THAT MAY VERY WELL BE WHERE WE WIND UP, BUT WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO RESCIND YOUR MOTION AND MS. MS. FRIAR YOUR SECOND SO THAT THE REST OF US WHO ARE HERE THIS EVENING WHO I'M SURE HAVE SOMETHING WE WANNA SAY CAN DO. SO? YEAH, AND THAT'S FAIR. I WAS GIVEN A PIECE OF PAPER HERE. ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDERS. . OKAY. TYPICALLY, ONCE I MAKE A MOTION, WE THEN ENGAGE IN, IN A COMMISSION DISCUSSION, BUT I DID NOT, IT DID NOT DAWN ON ME THAT, UM, THAT WOULD KEEP YOU ALL FROM HAVING DISCUSSION. I WILL BE GLAD TO WITHDRAW MY MOTION FOR THERE TO BE. ALL RIGHT. ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION. [01:35:01] THANK YOU. WILL YOU WITHDRAW YOUR SECOND COMMISSIONER FRIAR? OKAY, GREAT. THANK YOU. THEN WE'LL CONTINUE WITH DISCUSSION. COMMISSIONER SENIO. UM, , THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK HERE. . UM, FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK THE RESIDENTS OF BERNIE FOR COMING OUT TONIGHT. UM, PART OF THE REASON I AM ON THIS COMMISSION IS BECAUSE I FOUGHT A, UM, HOME BUILDER TOOTH AND NAIL TO PREVENT THEM FROM TAKING DOWN A COUPLE OF 200 YEAR OAK TREES. UM, SO I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE THAT A INVOLVED, UM, CITY RESIDENTS. I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE THAT IT MAKES. I ALSO WANT TO THANK THE, THE, UM, FOLKS WHO CAME OUT AND SPOKE IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT AND THE ZONING CHANGE. UM, I THINK THE FACT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THEY WERE OVERWHELMINGLY, UM, OUTNUMBERED, BUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING THAT IN THE FACE OF HUGE OPPOSITION, I THINK THAT THAT'S SPECIAL TOO. I THINK THAT THAT SHOWS THAT BERNIE IS A SPECIAL PLACE THAT WE TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT, AND THAT WE LISTEN TO EVERYBODY'S, UH, OPINIONS AND, AND PERSPECTIVES. UM, YOU KNOW, TONIGHT FEELS A LOT LIKE SOMEBODY DROPPED A NEWBORN BABY ON OUR FRONT DOOR, AND WE'D LOVE TO GO BACK NINE MONTHS TO THE POINT OF CONCEPTION AND SAY, PLEASE DON'T, DON'T DO IT. DON'T DO IT. BUT THAT'S NOT OUR CHARGE HERE TONIGHT. RIGHT. AND THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS I'M, I MEAN, I THINK A LITTLE MORE TIME IS FINE. THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT I THINK IT'S, IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THIS COMMISSION TREAT EVERY APPLICANT EQUALLY, RIGHT? SO WHETHER REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU FEEL ABOUT THE APPLICANT, RIGHT, AND WHETHER YOU'RE A BIG FAN OF BUCKYS OR YOU'RE NOT A BIG FAN OF BUCKYS, TREATING THEM EQUALLY AS IF THIS WAS ANOTHER CAR DEALERSHIP OR ANOTHER RV CENTER OR ANOTHER GROCERY STORE. TREATING THEM THE SAME WAY. UM, IF THIS WERE A, A CHURCH AND THE CHURCH WANTED TO PUT A, UM, A PRESCHOOL, UM, AT THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, TREATING THEM THE SAME, RIGHT? TREATING THEM LIKE YOU WOULD TREAT EVERY OTHER CHURCH OR TREATING THIS APPLICANT LIKE YOU WOULD TREAT EVERY OTHER COMMERCIAL APPLICANT. UM, SO YOU'VE, YEAH, I JUST THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO, TO POINT THAT OUT. UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT'S A, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS COMMISSION IS TO TREAT PEOPLE FAIRLY, TO TREAT APPLICANTS FAIRLY. AND I THINK IF, YOU KNOW, IF, IF WE'RE UNWILLING TO DO THAT OR WE CAN'T DO THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, I I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S GONNA WORK IN THE LONG RUN. SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S JUST MY COMMENT. AGAIN, A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME IS FINE, BUT, UM, I JUST, UM, JUST WANTED TO JUST EXPRESS THAT. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SENIO. MR. KATES. I FIND MYSELF IN A, UH, MAYBE A LITTLE DIFFERENT POSITION THAN A LOT OF YOU BECAUSE, UH, UNFORTUNATELY I'M THE SENIOR MEMBER UP HERE IN NINE YEARS. UM, BUCKY'S AND, UH, SHORELINE, I FELT LIKE IF, IF ALWAYS BEEN HUGE BLACK EYES ON THE CITY OF BERNIE WITH THE COMMUNITY. UM, THE THING ABOUT BOTH PROJECTS, NOBODY IN CITY HALL RIGHT NOW, NOBODY ON THIS DAIS, NOBODY INVOLVED IN, UH, CITY COUNCIL WAS INVOLVED IN ANY OF THOSE INITIAL DISCUSSIONS, THOSE INITIAL AGREEMENTS. IT'S LIKE CARLOS SAID, LET'S GO BACK NINE MONTHS AND SAY DON'T DO IT. BUT, UH, WE INHERITED WHAT WE INHERITED AND THIS COMMISSION HAS DONE, I THINK, A FABULOUS JOB OF DEALING WITH IT. UM, I'M GOING TO FOR MAYBE SECOND TIME IN SIX YEARS, DISAGREE A LITTLE BIT WITH COMMISSIONER LUCAS HERE. UM, I'VE NEVER BEEN A PROPONENT OF KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. I'VE NEVER BEEN A PROPONENT OF LET'S, UH, DELAY THIS 90 DAYS AND JUST LET THE POT STIR AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK AND ADDRESS IT AGAIN. UM, I PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT WAS SAID HERE TONIGHT. THE PROBLEM, UH, THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS NONE OF IT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR TONIGHT. UH, I WAS VERY, VERY ALONG WITH, UH, UH, CHAIRMAN BA WOLFF, UH, HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THE UDC VERY, UH, HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF HOURS. THIS PROJECT WAS ALWAYS ON OUR RADAR. FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T REMEMBER THIS AS BEING AN OVERSIGHT OR A, A MISTAKE OR A CLERICAL ERROR FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. WE DISCUSSED THIS IN MANY MEETINGS. UH, TXDOT WAS IN THE PROCESS OF COMPLETING, UH, THE I 10 RIGHT OF WAY AND, AND THE NEW BRIDGE. AND WE KNEW THERE WAS GONNA BE PROPERTY THERE THAT WAS GONNA BE EXCESS PROPERTY THAT WOULD EVENTUALLY [01:40:01] GO TO BUCKY'S. JUST NO ONE AT THE TIME KNEW HOW MUCH THAT WOULD BE OR, OR WHERE IT WOULD BE. AND SO WHEN WE DID THE, UH, REZONINGS, UM, WE KNEW THIS WAS GONNA COME UP, BUT IT WAS GONNA COME UP AT A TIME AND A PLACE OF TEXT DOTS CONVENIENCE WHEN THEY DECIDED THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA GIVE UP. SO THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A KNOWN SITUATION THAT NEEDED TO BE CORRECTED. BUT AGAIN, I, I DON'T, I DON'T VIEW IT AS A CLERICAL ERROR. SECOND PART IS, UH, ONE THING I DON'T THINK WAS BROUGHT OUT STRONGLY TONIGHT. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ANYMORE THAT WAS DONE AWAY WITH IN THE NEW UDC AND ALL B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL WAS REPLACED WITH C3 ZONING. UH, WE CAN PLAY AROUND AND SAY WE OUGHT TO MAKE IT C ONE, WE OUGHT TO MAKE IT C TWO, JUST BECAUSE EVERYTHING'S C3 AROUND IT, THAT REALLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. THEY'VE ALREADY GOT THE B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL THAT WAS ON THE PROPERTY BEFORE THE UDC. SO ANYTHING WE DO WITH THAT IS NOT GONNA CHANGE WHAT THEY CAN LEGALLY DO WITH THAT PROPERTY. SO KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD JUST ON A ZONING CHANGE MAKES NO SENSE TO ME. UH, THE SIGN. I THINK THIS COMMUNITY'S GOT A GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, UH, UH, POINT OF VIEW ON THAT. I THINK THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, I, I'VE GOT SOME QUESTIONS ON THESE THINGS. UH, YOU KNOW, WHO WAS THE, UH, CHIEF OF POLICE AND WHO WAS THE, UH, FIRE CHIEF DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME? I KNOW WHO THE CITY PLANNER WAS. UH, BUT UH, HAS ANYONE TALKED TO THEM? HAS ANYONE GOTTEN AN AFFIDAVIT OR GOTTEN ANY RECOLLECTION OR ANY MEMORY THAT'S NOT BEEN IN ANY OF THE INFORMATION I'VE GOTTEN? AND SO, UH, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS ON THAT, BUT, BUT THESE ARE ISSUES TOTALLY SEPARATE AND APART FROM WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DETERMINE TONIGHT. AND IT'S TO CORRECT THE ZONING THAT WE KNEW WAS COMING UP BECAUSE TXDOT DIDN'T KNOW HOW MUCH EXCESS THEY WERE GONNA HAVE TO, UH, TO HAVE REMAINDER FOR, FOR, FOR BUCKY'S. UM, THIS COMMISSION, UH, THESE GUYS I'M SERVING WITH RIGHT NOW, I, I THINK, UH, YOU GUYS WOULD BE AMAZED AT HOW MANY HOURS WE PUT INTO THIS. MOST OF OUR MEETINGS ARE ATTENDED BY STAFF AND THE COMMISSIONERS. MOST OF OUR MEETINGS AND A LOT OF OUR MEETINGS, WE HAVE PROJECTS COME UP THAT, IN OUR OPINION, LOOK TOWARDS SERVING FUTURE POTENTIAL RESIDENTS OF BERNIE RATHER THAN SERVING CURRENT RESIDENTS AND WHERE THEY HAVE NEEDS AND, AND, AND WHAT OUR COMMUNITY IS NOW. AND I THINK YOU GUYS WOULD BE SURPRISED HOW MANY PROJECTS THAT WE HAVE DENIED THAT WOULD'VE BROUGHT A LOT OF TRAFFIC, A LOT OF, UH, MULTI-HOME PROJECTS. UH, THIS, THIS COMMISSION HAS BEEN VERY DILIGENT ON THAT. SO I'VE, I'VE BEEN PROUD TO BE PART OF THAT. UM, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, I DO WANT VERIFICATION THIS, THE, THE B TWO HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL ZONING WOULD ALLOW THEM TO DO ANYTHING THAT THEY CAN DO UNDER C3. YES, SIR. THAT YOUR VOTE TONIGHT DOESN'T AFFECT OR SUSPEND THE DEVELOPMENT AT ALL. OKAY. OR THE PROGRESS OF IT. I DO HAVE IT, AND IT IS JUST A QUESTION I HAVE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ZONING, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS REQUEST. BUT THE, BUT THE COMMUNITY HAS BROUGHT IT UP AND IT'S A CONCERN. I'VE SEEN A LOT ABOUT THE COMMITMENTS THAT DR. MACALUSO HAS, UH, HAS LISTED. UH, I'VE SEEN A LOT ABOUT COMMITMENTS OF WE'RE NOT GONNA DO SUPPLEMENTAL PADS. WE HAVE THIS DISCUSSION ALMOST AT EVERY MEETING. UH, A DEVELOPER CAN STAND HERE AND TELL YOU, YEAH, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT ANYMORE. BUT UNLESS IT'S LEGALLY BINDING IN WRITING, IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. THEY CAN WALK OUTTA HERE AND, AND DO IT BEFORE THEY HIT THE PARKING LOT. SO HOW MANY OF THESE COMMITMENTS THAT DR. UH, MACALUSO LIST, UH, ESPECIALLY IN MY OPINION, ELIMINATING THE PAD SITES, THE SUPPLEMENTAL PAD SITES, AND THEN NOT, UH, ALLOWING, UH, 18 WHEELERS TO FUEL HOW MANY OF THOSE ARE ACTUALLY IN WRITING AND BINDING VERSUS YEAH, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT ANYMORE. 'CAUSE THAT MEANS NOTHING. DOES, DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF ANY OF THOSE WERE IN WRITING AND BINDING? YES. MISS, UH, COUNCIL MEMBER AL'S EMAILS BASED ON ONE FROM, UH, BUCKY'S REPRESENTATIVE, MR. BEARD WHO COMMITTED TO THOSE, BUT IT'S JUST AN EMAIL, CORRECT? YES. SO THAT'S NOT LEGALLY BINDING, THAT IS NOT ENFORCEABLE, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. IT'S JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CONTRACT WE ENTER INTO, THERE HAS TO BE [01:45:01] ALL THE RULES OF CONTRACT AND I WOULD HAVE TO APPROVE IT AND SUBMIT IT. SO WE CAN ALL FEEL REAL GOOD THAT THEY SAY THEY'RE NOT GONNA DO BAD SITES AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA FUEL 18 WHEELERS. BUT UNLESS SOMEBODY GETS THAT IN WRITING. AND, AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, TIAS, WE'VE NEVER CONSIDERED A ZONING, UH, REQUEST IN THE NINE YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE WHERE WE REQUIRED A TIA BEFORE WE CONSIDER THE ZONING REQUEST THAT COMES WITH PLANNING AND PLANNING. AND SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER RIGHT NOW. UH, YES, IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, IT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED, BUT IT REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT WE'RE ASKED TO, TO, UH, CONSIDERED TONIGHT. UH, SO, UH, JUST A, A LOT OF THINGS ARE, I THINK, BEING A LITTLE CONVOLUTED AND REALLY DON'T HAVE, I MEAN, I WOULD LOVE TO STAND UP HERE AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, GET THE PITCHFORKS AND SWORDS WITH YOU GUYS AND LET'S GO GET 'EM. BUT WE DIDN'T DO THIS, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T DO THIS. AND, UH, WE'RE MAKING THE BEST THAT WE CAN. I THINK THERE'S A VERY VOCAL GROUP HERE THAT CAN FOLLOW UP ON A LOT OF ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP, VERY WELL DONE, AND I THINK THEY SHOULD BE FOLLOWED UP ON, BUT THEY DON'T RELATE TO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE TONIGHT. SO, THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER KATES. I, I WOULD BE AGAINST, UH, THE CONTINUANCE ON THIS. OKAY. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER BYRD. UH, I LOVE GOING LAST. I GET TO GO LAST. OH, OKAY. SECOND TO THE LAST. WELL, THE GOOD NEWS IS, IS YOU GUYS HAVE PRETTY MUCH COVERED EVERYTHING. BUT YOU KNOW, AS A, AS A, UH, MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY AND LIVING IN, IN DOWNTOWN BERNIE, UM, I REALLY CAN'T DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP TO US TODAY. UM, IT'S JUST, UM, I'M A LITTLE SAD ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT WE'VE GOTTEN TO THE SPOT. UM, AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS ON THE AGENDA, WE KEEP REVERTING BACK TO JUST ALL THE, THE MISINFORMATION AND THE, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNS AND THE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE CAN'T MAKE, I DON'T THINK WE CAN MAKE BUCKY'S GO AWAY RIGHT NOW. UH, BUT, BUT WE, WE KEEP GETTING TO THAT POINT. SO, YOU KNOW, TRAFFIC, I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. UM, THE, UH, SAFETY I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT. BUT, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY THE, THE MOST CONSISTENT THING, OR WHAT TROUBLED ME THE MOST, UM, AND OUR CHAIR HAD RECOGNIZED OR QUESTIONED THIS EARLIER, IS THE DIFFERENCE IN ACREAGE ON THE ANNOUNCEMENT. ONE MORE ERROR, ONE MORE MISTAKE. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT CITY STAFF IS, WE'RE HUMAN. YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL MEMBERS OF, OF THE SAME COMMUNITY, BUT AT, AT SOME POINT IN TIME, THIS NEEDS TO STOP. WE NEED TO GET IT RIGHT AND RIGHT NOW'S NOT THE TIME TO BE MAKING ERRORS BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT GOOD. SO, SO GET IT RIGHT. AND, AND THIS IS WHAT HAS ME THINKING THAT COMMISSIONER HILLER IS, IS CORRECT IN PUMPING THE BRAKES. AND, UH, COMMISSIONER FRIAR, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE THEY GOT WRONG. AND I, AND I, I'D LIKE TO DIG INTO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I DON'T KNOW. SO IF, IF WE'VE GOTTEN TO WHERE WE ARE TODAY AND WE STILL HAVE ERRORS IN OUR PRESENTATION, IN WHAT WE'RE PRESENTING TO THE PUBLIC, THEN WE, WE AT LEAST OWE THEM OUR TIME TO, TO, TO, TO JUST TURN EVERYTHING OVER, TURN ALL THE ROCKS OVER. NOW, THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS ISN'T THE VENUE FOR 99% OF OUR GRIPES ON, ON BUCKIES. I THINK THERE'S OTHER VENUES FOR THAT. UM, YOU KNOW, THE SIGNS AND, AND SO FORTH. THIS IS, UH, THIS IS ABOUT ZONING AND, UH, AND I'M, I'M GUESSING IT'S BEING PRESENTED BY THE CITY, CORRECT? CITY'S THE APPLICANT. YEAH, THE CITY'S THE APPLICANT ON THIS. BUCKY'S ISN'T EVEN THE APPLICANT ON THE ZONING AND GOT, THEY CAN PUT A HOTEL THERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, UH, B2C THREE C, I MEAN, WE CAN, WE CAN PUT A USED CAR LOT THERE AND BECAUSE IT'S GOTTA BE ZONED AND IT'S, AND IT'S ON I 10. SO WE'VE GOTTA, WE GOTTA FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH IT THE BEST WE CAN WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT, WITH WHAT WE'VE BEEN SERVED. SO I WOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT COMMISSIONER FRIARS AND HILLIER'S, UH, DESIRE TO TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT IT. THANK YOU COMMISSIONER BYRD. UM, I DON'T THINK THE FOLKS HERE, NUMBER ONE, LEMME THANK YOU FOR, FOR COMING. I MEAN, THIS IS THE WAY THE PROCESS IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, RIGHT? IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE TRANSPARENT, SUPPOSED TO HAVE A CHANCE TO COMMENT ON WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY. ALL OF YOU CAME PREPARED, UH, TONIGHT. IT'S OBVIOUS TO ME THERE, THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF HOURS IN THE [01:50:01] AUDIENCE SPENT DOING WHAT WE SPENT. ALSO, UM, IF YOU SAW, THE ENTIRE PACKET THAT WE GOT FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING WAS 150 PLUS PAGES. AND I'LL GUARANTEE YOU THAT EVERY ONE OF THESE COMMISSIONERS WENT THROUGH EVERY SINGLE PAGE IN PREPARATION FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING. UM, I DID ON THE ZONING ISSUE. UM, COMMISSIONER KATES HAS TOUCHED ON SOMETHING, WHICH, WHICH I THINK IS, IS CRITICAL, AND THAT IS THE CITY'S PRESUMPTION THAT THIS WAS A CLERICAL ERROR AND A MISTAKE, AND THEREFORE THEY POSTED IT AS A RATIFICATION IS INCORRECT. I MEAN, NO ONE EVER ASKED COMMISSIONER KATES AND I, WHAT THE PRESUMPTION, WHAT THE INTENTION WAS. HE AND I, AND COMMISSIONER DUNNING AT THE TIME, WHO'S NOW IN FREDERICKSBURG, SERVED ON THE UDC SUBCOMMITTEE. AND AS COMMISSIONER KATE SAID, WE SPENT HUNDREDS OF HOURS, MANY MEETING TWICE A WEEK FOR MONTHS ON THE NEW UDC. WE WERE VERY DELIBERATE ABOUT NOT PUTTING ANY ZONING ON THE TEXT STOP PARCEL BECAUSE OF THE REASON MR. KATES SAID, UM, WE WANTED WHOEVER WAS GONNA GET THIS PARCEL TO COME BACK TO US. SO I'M WONDERING, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT PRESUMPTION OF RATIFICATION IS FALSE. AND IF SOMEONE HAD COME TO US AHEAD OF TIME AND ASKED US WHAT OUR RECOLLECTION WAS OF THE INTENTION OF THE UDC SUBCOMMITTEE, COMMISSIONER KATES, AND I SURELY WOULD'VE TOLD THEM. THE SECOND THING I WOULD SAY, AND I THINK MR. RIDGE IS RIGHT, THAT IT'S POSTED TWO DIFFERENT WAYS. I THINK IT WAS CORRECTLY POSTED BACK IN JULY, WHICH IS WHY I DIDN'T RAISE THE ISSUE. I THINK THAT WAS THE CORRECT REZONING TO BE POSTED. IT COMES BACK TO US NOW IN SEPTEMBER AS A A RATIFICATION, WHICH I THINK IS INCORRECT. AND I THINK AS COMMISSIONER HAS POINTED OUT, UM, THAT WASN'T THE INTENTION, THAT WE WERE VERY DELIBERATE ABOUT WHAT WE DID HERE, UM, BACK WHEN THIS WAS DONE IN 2021. I'M ALSO TROUBLED BY THE FACT THAT, THAT BUCKY'S IS NOT HERE, NOT A REPRESENTATIVE OF BUCKY'S IS HERE. UM, YOU KNOW, THIS MAY BE AN APPLICATION THE CITY BROUGHT FORWARD UNDER, UNDER THE MISTAKEN IMPRESSION THIS WAS A CLERICAL ERROR TO FIX. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE A COMMUNITY AND, AND BUCKY'S OWNS PROPERTY IN THIS COMMUNITY, LIKE ALL OF US DO. AND THE WAY YOU RESOLVE ISSUES LIKE THIS, DISAGREEMENTS LIKE THIS IN THE COMMUNITIES, EVERYBODY GETS TOGETHER AND TALKS ABOUT BUCKY'S SITTING HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT. UM, I SAW COUNCIL KELSO'S EMAIL, UM, BUCKY'S DECLINED TO PARTICIPATE IN HIS MEETING LAST WEEK, UH, RELYING, I GUESS INSTEAD UPON MEETINGS THAT THEY WERE A PART OF BACK IN 2020 AND 2021 IN THE HEIGHT OF CODI MIGHT REMIND YOU WHERE A WHOLE LOT OF FOLKS WE'RE NOW PARTICIPATING IN MEETINGS. THAT IS DISAPPOINTING TO ME. I, I FRANKLY FEEL LIKE BUCKYS HAS GIVEN US THE MIDDLE FINGER TONIGHT, AND THAT DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH ME. WE'VE ALSO HEARD A LOT FROM THE PUBLIC TONIGHT ABOUT THE SIGNED PERMIT ISSUED BACK IN 2018. AND AGAIN, ADMITTEDLY, WHILE A SIGNED PERMIT IS NOT WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THIS BODY, I WILL POINT OUT THAT SECTION TWO DASH FOUR L TWO OF THE UDC STATES THAT IF AN UNEXPIRED PERMIT, WHICH IS WHAT BUCKYS HAS IN TERMS OF THEIR SIGNED PERMIT, AN AN EXPIRED PERMIT WAS APPROVED PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE, IT SHALL EXPIRE TWO YEARS AFTER THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS ORDINANCE, UNLESS THE APPLICANT SUBMITS EVIDENCE SUFFICIENT TO SHOW THAT PROGRESS TOWARDS COMPLETION OF THE PROJECT WAS MADE PRIOR TO EXPIRATION. NOW, I THINK THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT, IF ANY SPECIFIC EVIDENCE BUCKY SUBMITTED TO THE CITY BETWEEN JULY 28TH, 2021 AND JULY 28TH, 2023, UNDER THIS SECTION I JUST QUOTED SUFFICIENT TO SHOW THAT PROPER, PROPER PROGRESS WAS MADE TOWARDS COMPLETION OF THEIR PROJECT. NOW, AGAIN, THIS IS NOT WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THIS BODY, BUT PERHAPS THE FREEDOM INFORMATION ACT REQUEST SUBMITTED TO THE CITY COULD FLESH ALL THIS OUT FOR US. WE'VE HEARD A LOT TONIGHT ABOUT VESTED RIGHTS, WHY BUCKYS CAN'T BE REQUIRED TO COMPLY WITH OUR CURRENT UDC. IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT THIS NEW PARCEL, WHATEVER IT'S ZONED, WHATEVER IT'S ZONED, WILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE NEW UDC. UM, AND EVERYTHING RELATED TO IT LIKE SIGNAGE, LIGHTING, WILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH OUR NEW DARK SKIES, NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR WATER RETENTION, DRAINAGE, ET CETERA. UM, BUT I'M ALSO REMINDED THAT, YOU KNOW, OVER THE LAST NINE PLUS YEARS, THIS PROJECT HAS MORPHED INTO SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IT WAS BACK IN 2016 WHEN THAT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED. UM, AND, AND MS. PATTON POINTED THAT OUT. UM, IT'S DIFFERENT. THIS IS A CHANGED PROJECT INSTEAD OF A FUELING STATION AND FOUR RETAIL PAD SITES. NOW WE HAVE A FUELING STATION IN A GIANT PARKING LOT. AND I JUST WANNA POINT OUT WHAT OUR NEW GTC SAYS ABOUT [01:55:01] VESTED RIGHTS IN SECTION TWO DASH FOUR POINT A 0.5. A PROJECT IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR VESTED RIGHTS IF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING ARE FOUND TO BE TRUE. AND ONE OF THE ITEMS IS SUBSECTION B, THE ORIGINAL PROJECT HAS BEEN COMPLETED OR CHANGED. UM, AND THE TEXAS VESTED RIGHT STATUTE SAYS MUCH THE SAME THING. IF YOU'RE CHANGING YOUR PROJECT, VESTED RIGHTS NO LONGER APPLIES. AND I'M WONDERING WHETHER ANY PART OF THIS PROJECT NOW IS ELIGIBLE FOR VESTED RIGHTS. UM, THIS IS CLEARLY A DIFFERENT PROJECT. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, ONE THING'S FOR SURE. I MEAN, GIVEN THE CHANGED NATURE OF THIS PROJECT AND THE REMOVAL OF THOSE FOUR RETAIL PAD SITES, THE CITY IS NO LONGER GETTING THE BENEFIT OF THE BARGAIN. IT STRUCK WITH BUCKY'S NINE PLUS YEARS AGO, THE 50% OF THE CITY'S SALES TAX TAKE TO BE PAID TO BUCKY'S OVER A PERIOD OF 20 YEARS WAS MEANT TO DO THIS. AND I'LL JUST QUOTE FROM THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT WAS MEANT TO QUOTE, BE A MATERIAL INDUCEMENT TO DEVELOPER TO PURCHASE THE PROPERTY AND DEVELOP THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROJECTS END QUOTE. THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROJECTS, BY THE WAY, BEING THOSE FOUR RETAIL PAD SITES, A PARKING LOT IN LIEU OF THOSE FOUR RETAIL PAD SITES CONTEMPLATED, CLEARLY CONTEMPLATED BY THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WILL YIELD ZERO SALES TAX REVENUE FOR THE CITY AND ONLY MINIMAL PROPERTY TAX REVENUE TO THE CITY EACH YEAR. THAT'S A VASTLY DIFFERENT PROJECT THAN WHAT THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT CONTEMPLATED NINE YEARS AGO. AND THAT CAUSES ME SOME CONCERN AS WELL. UM, THAT BEING SAID, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. COMMISSIONER HIGH, YOU'VE GOT A MOTION? YES. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A COUPLE COMMENTS IF THAT'S ALLOWABLE. ABSOLUTELY. YEP. UM, SO COMMISSIONER VINO OF COMMENT ABOUT TREATING APPLICANTS THE SAME AS WE ALWAYS HAVE IN JUST A FEW MOMENTS. I'M, I'M GUESSING MR. SPINELLI'S SOMEWHERE IN THE AUDIENCE, AND HE WAS HERE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO ASKING FOR A REZONING. UM, AND WE DIDN'T ALL COME TO AGREEMENT, OR I GUESS MAYBE WE DID COME TO AN AGREEMENT TO TABLE HIS REQUEST AND HE'S BACK TONIGHT. UM, AND I GUESS THIS MESSAGE TO THE CITY, UM, THAT'S WORKING WITH BUCKY'S AND CERTAINLY BUCKY'S WILL HEAR WHAT WE'VE SHARED TONIGHT AND WE'LL HEAR THE CONCERNS OF THE COMMUNITY MAYBE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A LONG TIME. AND SO I FEEL LIKE WE ARE TREATING, UM, EITHER THE CITY AS THE APPLICANT OR BUCKY'S AS THE ULTIMATE DEVELOPER. UM, UM, FAIRLY, UH, FOR MR. KATES AND NOT, NOT NOT AGREEING WITH ME. I I HAVE HIGHLY RESPECT. UM, OR MAYBE IT HURTS ME A LITTLE BIT THAT WE'RE NOT IN AGREEMENT. UM, WE DON'T GET TO COMMUNICATE PRIOR TO THESE MEETINGS. UM, IT'S NOT ALLOWABLE BY LAW, UM, TO COMMUNICATE ABOUT OUR POSITION AND FOR ME TO PERSUADE MR. CASE TO MAYBE LIKE, HERE'S MY TAKE. AND SO HE UNDERSTANDS AND KNOWS WHAT I'VE ONLY SHARED HERE TODAY. MY REASONING BEHIND TABLING THIS IS BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A ULTIMATE OR A FINAL DECISION. THIS WILL GO TO CITY COUNCIL FOR THE ULTIMATE FINAL DECISION. AND IF WE DON'T HAVE ALL OF OUR FACTS TOGETHER AND PRESENT THEM WITH A SOLID CASE OF WHY WE'RE MAKING OUR RECOMMENDATION, HISTORY HAS SHOWN, UM, I THINK YOU REFERENCED TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER AND THERE'S SOME DEVELOPMENTS WHERE, UM, WE LOOKED AT THINGS THAT WERE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER AND THAT REQUIRED FOR US TO LOOK AT A TIA, UM, OUTSIDE OF TOWN ON 46. THINGS WERE TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER. AND I'M REALIZING THAT YOU GOTTA LOOK AT SOME THINGS TOTALLY OUTTA ORDER SOMETIMES TO MAKE A DECISION. UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, UM, MY APOLOGIES FOR NOT COMMUNICATING WELL, UM, IN THIS CASE, BUT THAT'S THE PREMISE OR THE REASON BEHIND CAUSING THE PAUSE. IT'S NOT TO DELAY THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS, IT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO WHAT YOU ALL HAVE ASKED AND NOT BEING A RUBBER STAMP. IT'S TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE THOROUGH IN THE DECISION AND THAT WE DON'T JUST MAKE A DECISION IN SO FAR THE TWO HOURS THAT WE'VE BEEN HERE TONIGHT. AND WE USE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVALUATE ALL THE FACTS. WE USE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CITY TO PROVIDE SOME CLARITY ON THEIR REQUEST FOR THE ZONING AND MAYBE WORKING WITH, UH, THEIR DEVELOPER AS WELL TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT CAN ADDRESS THE CONCERNS WITHIN THIS ZONING REQUEST IN, I'VE [02:00:01] SEEN IT HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF IT AS WELL IN MANY CASES. AND SO THAT'S THE REASON FOR MY REQUEST FOR A PAUSE OR MY MOTION FOR A PAUSE. WITH THAT BEING SAID, COMMISSIONER KATES, YES, 90 DAYS MAY MAYBE A A, I DON'T WANNA CALL IT A NEGOTIATION, BUT AN EFFORT TO MAKE THAT DECISION QUICKER IS I WOULD MAKE A MOTION NOW TO TABLE THIS ITEM FOR 60 DAYS WITH THE HOPES THAT I COULD GET YOUR SUPPORT, UM, AND POTENTIALLY OTHER COMMISSIONERS SUPPORT TO TABLE IT AND ALLOW FOR US TO LOOK AT THE FACTS AND, AND SEE, UH, IF THERE'S A CHANCE TO MAKE A GREAT PRESENTATION TO CITY COUNCIL. OKAY, SO THE MOTION TO TABLE FOR SIX DAYS, I PRESUME, UNTIL OUR NOVEMBER MEETING THEN? CORRECT. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A SECOND? CAN I MAKE SOME, MR. FERAR WANTS TO MAKE SOME ABSOLUTELY. UM, IN TYPICAL FASHION, I AGREE WITH EVERYONE AND ALL THE COMMENTS THAT ARE MADE AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF, OF THE BRINGING THE MINDS TOGETHER. UM, BUT A COUPLE OF THINGS I JUST WANNA TOUCH ON AND THEN A QUESTION, UM, TRUST AND TRANSPARENCY. I DIDN'T HEAR TRANSPARENCY IN YOUR COMMENTS A LOT TONIGHT, BUT I KNOW THAT YOU WANT TRANSPARENCY AND SO DO WE. WE DON'T ONLY WANT IT, WE EXPECT IT AND WE SHOULD DEMAND IT. AND WE HAVE TO TRUST THE INFORMATION THAT WE'RE GETTING AND ORDER TO GIVE YOU GUYS THE BEST INFORMATION AND THE BEST OUTCOME. I'M GONNA GO WAY OUT ON A LIMB HERE AND I'M GONNA USE THE WORD SLOPPY. I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE THIS HAS BEEN A SLOPPY DEAL FOR A LONG TIME. I'M NOT WILLING TO BE PART OF SLOPPY MOVING FORWARD TO GET THIS TO CITY COUNCIL, AND I'M DEFINITELY IN AGREEMENT TO, TO TABLING THIS FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. UM, SO THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. MY QUESTION TO STAFF IS I CAN'T FIND IT IN ALL OF THE EMAILS AND DOCUMENTS OVER THE LAST TWO MONTHS, BUT I COULD HAVE SWORN THAT WE WERE GOING TO SEE A BUCKY'S PLAT COME FORWARD TONIGHT. IS THAT TRUE, NATHAN? UH, AS YOU KNOW, WE'RE BRINGING PLATS BEFORE YOU WHEN THEY'RE READY AND THEY'VE MET ALL THE, UH, UH, UDC REQUIREMENTS OR APPLICABLE CODE REQUIREMENTS. UH, WE'VE HAD, UH, SITE A, WE'VE HAD A PLAT FOR A FINAL PLAT FOR THAT FOR A WHILE. UH, AND IT'S BEEN IN AND OUTTA REVIEW MUCH LIKE A TRAFFIC STUDY HAS. UH, BUT THEY'RE JUST, IT'S NOT, UH, READY FOR YOU GUYS TO SEE YET. SO THAT'S WHY IT WASN'T BROUGHT FORWARD. SO THAT WAS ONLY FOR SITE A, SITE A, UH, WE HAVE, UH, AS YOU KNOW, SITE B IS UNDER A DIFFERENT PROCESS 'CAUSE THE NEW UDC HAS A DIFFERENT PROCESS. AND SO THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS AND, UH, YOU GUYS WILL SEE THAT, UH, AS APPLICABLE AFTER, UM, ALL THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE AND, AND ET CETERA IS, IS PLANNED FOR AND DESIGNED, ET CETERA. SO THERE'S NO CHANCE TO HAVE THE ZONING AND THE PLAT ALL AT THE SAME TIME SO WE COULD PIN 'EM DOWN. NO, MA'AM. NOT AT THIS POINT. OKAY. UM, CAN YOU ALSO DESCRIBE THE, JUST FOR CLARITY, AND IT WAS IN YOUR PRESENTATION, UM, BUT JUST FOR, FOR THE SAKE OF EDUCATION IN 2005, WHICH IS FAR BEFORE BUCKY'S EVER CAME INTO THE PICTURE, THIS PROPERTY WAS ZONED B2B TWO, CORRECT? YES. WHICH WOULD HAVE ALLOWED FOR A GAS STATION, CORRECT? REGARDLESS. CORRECT. REGARDLESS HOW MANY PUMPS, REGARDLESS WHETHER IT WAS CHEVRON, EXXON, OR BECKY'S QUICK TRIP YEAH. ET CETERA. YES, THAT'S CORRECT. SO IN ONE OF THE EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE THAT WE RECEIVED LATE LAST WEEK, I BELIEVE THAT WAS VERY SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED THAT IT DIDN'T MATTER THAT IT WAS BUCKY'S, WHETHER WE LIKED IT OR WE DON'T, IT DIDN'T MATTER THAT THAT PARCEL WAS ZONED FOR A GAS STATION REGARDLESS WHO IT WAS GONNA BE. SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHY THERE WAS NOT PUBLIC HEARINGS AND A LOT OF PUBLIC OUTREACH, CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. AS A PERMITTED USE, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO MOVE FORWARD WITHOUT THE, UH, PUBLIC OUTREACH EFFORTS THAT WE DO FOR SPECIAL U USE PERMITS OR REZONINGS OR THINGS OF THAT NATURE. OKAY. I JUST, I WANT YOU GUYS TO BE ABLE TO HEAR THAT. 'CAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE LEARNING THIS AS WELL AS WE'VE GONE ALONG. UM, SO THAT WASN'T HIDING FROM ANY OF US. I LIVED IN MANGER SPRINGS AT THE TIME THAT THIS HAPPENED IN 2015 AS WELL. UM, I KNEW ABOUT [02:05:01] IT. I WASN'T INVOLVED IN ANY CITY DEALINGS AT THAT TIME, SO I DIDN'T PAY AS MUCH ATTENTION. UM, BUT IT, IT WASN'T A SECRET, IT WASN'T UNDER THE TABLE. UM, IT WAS A PERMITTED USE OF THE PROPERTY. UM, NATHAN, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE SIGN HEIGHT AND SIZE HAD TO BE BROUGHT FORWARD? BECAUSE IT DIDN'T COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE, THE PERMITTED. RIGHT. AND WHAT WAS THE OTHER THING THAT WAS IN THAT EMAIL? WEREN'T THERE TWO? I DON'T, DON'T RECALL. GET A LOT OF EMAILS, SO I DON'T RECALL THE SPECIFIC ONE YOU'RE TALKING, I'M SORRY. AND I TRIED TO, I TRIED TO LOOK FOR IT A MINUTE AGO. DO Y'ALL REMEMBER? MM, I I WHICH EMAIL? ? YEAH. WELL, IT WAS, IT WAS A BLURP THAT SAID THAT THE, THE 2005 B TWO ZONING WAS ALREADY IN PLACE. THAT'S WHY THE GAS STATION WAS ALREADY ALLOWED. THE ONLY THINGS THAT HAD TO COME BEFORE CITY COUNCIL WAS THE SIGN. AND I THOUGHT THERE WAS ONE OTHER THING, BUT REGARDLESS, I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT OUT THERE FOR THE SAKE OF UNDERSTANDING. UM, I WAS IN HOPES TONIGHT THAT, UM, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DOWNGRADE THAT ZONING. UM, BECAUSE THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR DISTRICT, ACCORDING TO THE NEW UDC READS, THE PURPOSE OF THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT IS TO PRESERVE THE NATURAL LANDSCAPE. THE SCENIC HILL COUNTRY VIEWS THAT CHARACTERIZE I 10 IS IT PASSES THROUGH THE GARMENT AND INTO THE EDWARDS PLATEAU ECO REGION BY MINIMIZING THE VISUAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OF AUTO ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT ON THE NATURAL LANDSCAPE. OBVIOUSLY WE CAN'T CHANGE WHAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED, BUT WHAT CAN WE DO WITH THE TOOLS THAT WE HAVE NOW TO TRY TO ADHERE TO THIS? UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T THINK C3 DOES THAT, BUT WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT THE ONLY THING THAT WE CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IS WHAT CURRENT ZONING IS MOST EQUIVALENT TO BE TO CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. COMMISSIONER FRIER, JUST AS A POINT OF REFERENCE, THE SURPLUS PROPERTY, WHATEVER THIS IS, WHATEVER IT'S ULTIMATELY ZONED TO BE, WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE NEW SCENIC OVERLAY DISTRICT ALONG IH 10 BECAUSE IT HASN'T BEEN PLOTTED YET. AND SO IT'LL BE UNDER THE NEW UDC, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THE SCENIC OVERLAY DISTRICT IS A PART OF THE NEW UDC. I DON'T THINK A PARKING LOT FITS THAT DESCRIPTION EITHER. IT MAY NOT , BUT THAT'S NOT MY, IT MAY NOT, I CAN'T, I CAN'T CONTROL THAT. SO ANYWAYS, I JUST, JUST WANTED TO PUT THOSE TWO COUPLE LITTLE TIDBITS OUT THERE FOR THE SAKE OF UNDERSTANDING. CAN I ASK A QUESTION? OKAY. ARE YOU FINISHED COMMISSIONER FRYER? YES. BEFORE, BEFORE SHE SECONDS. AND WE CAN'T TALK ANYMORE. . THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. COMMISSIONER KATES. YEAH, JUST, I JUST WANT ONE, UH, LEGAL CLARIFICATION. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING IF A PROPERTY HAS ZONING, UNLESS A PROPERTY OWNER ASKS, YOU CANNOT DOWN ZONE LEGALLY THAT PROPERTY, IN OTHER WORDS, IF THEY'VE GOT RIGHTS. NO, WE CAN, YOU CAN, WE CAN DOWN ZONE , THE CITY CAN APPLY TO ZONE ANY PROPERTY IN THE SAME WAY THAT PROPERTY OWNER CAN. OKAY. BUT IT'S RARE BECAUSE THERE MAY BE SOME, UM, PROPERTY INTEREST WHERE THEY HAVE A LEGAL EXPECTATIONS AND INVESTMENT. SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH, EACH CASE SEPARATELY. HOWEVER, THE ABSOLUTELY THE CITY CAN APPLY FOR DOWNS ZONING OF ANY PROPERTY IN THE SAME WAY A PROPERTY OWNER CAN. OKAY, THANK YOU. I JUST WANT THAT CLARIFICATION. EVERYBODY STILL HAS TO BE NOTIFIED. OF COURSE, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ACCOUNT PROCESS. SO CAN WE OR CAN'T WE DOWNGRADE THE ZONING? WELL, LET ME, LEMME JUST SAY, BECAUSE I'VE HAD SOME EXPERIENCE WITH THIS. WHEN I WAS IN THE CITY COUNCIL, I WAS SUCCESSFULLY ABLE TO DOWN ZONE A TOPLESS BAR OUT OF WHERE THEY WERE AT JACKSON, KELLER, AND VANCE JACKSON IN MY DISTRICT AT THE TIME, IT BECAME A BRIDAL SHOP. SO I KNOW THIS CAN BE DONE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT'S BEFORE US TONIGHT THOUGH, , BUT I KNOW MR. MCCAMEY IS CORRECT AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW DUE PROCESS. YOU REMEMBER WHO REPRESENTED SAN ANTONIO IN THAT CASE? I THINK WE WON. I I DON'T, WE WON. WAS IT YOU? YES. MUST HAVE A BRILLIANT LITIGATION STRATEGY. YEAH, THANK YOU. I WASN'T EVEN EVER DEPOSED THAT. I DON'T THINK IT WAS. MUST HAVE BEEN SUMMARY JUDGMENT EVEN. IT WAS, IT WAS. OKAY. GREAT LAWYER. I KNEW YOU WERE A GREAT LAWYER. UM, SO ANYWAY, WE CAN, THAT EXISTS. THAT RIGHT EXISTS. UM, BUT THAT'S NOT BEFORE US THIS EVENING BEFORE. THERE'S A SECOND. I'D ALSO LIKE TO SAY, BECAUSE ALL OF YOU'RE HERE, AND I MENTIONED THIS AT MR. MATHIS HOUSE LAST WEEK, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I HOPE ANYWAY, YOU ALL HAVE SEEN HOW TRANSPARENT THIS COMMISSION ATTEMPTS TO BE. WE, WE WANNA LAY IT ALL OUT THERE. WE'VE DONE THAT THIS EVENING. WE ALWAYS DO THAT. FOR THOSE OF YOU, WE DON'T SEE US ALL THE TIME. THIS IS THE WAY WE DISCUSS. EVEN MR. KYLE WILL AGREE. I THINK THIS IS THE WAY WE DISCUSS THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT ARE FACING OUR COMMUNITY. AND JUST AS AN ASIDE, YOU KNOW, STATE LAW REQUIRES ANYTIME A ZONING CHANGE IS SUBMITTED BY AN APPLICANT, THE CITY, WHOMEVER, [02:10:01] THAT THE CITY MUST NOTIFY ALL PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN A 200 FEET, 200 FOOT RADIUS. WHEN WE ADOPTED THE NEW UDC, WE DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS SUFFICIENT. WE CHANGED IT EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE TO, WE CHANGED IT TO 500 FEET BECAUSE WE VIEW THE MORE CITIZEN INPUT, THE BETTER. AND SO I'M GLAD ALL YOU ALL CAME DOWN THIS EVENING. I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH. THE PRESENTATIONS, YOUR COMMENTS WERE AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL. VERY HIGH LEVEL. IT SHOWS THAT YOU ALL SPENT A LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THIS ISSUE, PUTTING YOUR THOUGHTS TOGETHER ON THIS ISSUE. IT WAS GREAT DISCOURSE. I APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMISSIONERS. I'VE SAID THEY APPRECIATE IT. DO YOU HAVE A SECOND? COMMISSIONER FRIAR SECOND. THE TABLE MOTION TO SIX DAYS UNTIL NOVEMBER. THERE BEING NO DISCUSSION ON A MOTION TO TABLE WILL REVEAL THE RESULTS, VOTE AND REVEAL THE RESULTS IF I CAN VOTE. THERE IT IS. WAIT. THERE WE GO. AND THE RESULTS ARE DRUM ROLL PLEASE. ALRIGHT. IT PASSED. SIX IN FAVOR, NOT OPPOSED. AND AGAIN, THE RECORD REFLECTS THAT COMMISSIONER KELLER ABSTAINED FROM ALL DISCUSSIONS, ALL VOTING, ET CETERA ON THIS MATTER BECAUSE OF THE CONFLICT. MR. CHAIRMAN, THANK YOU. UH, YES, MR. MR. FOR, UH, AS WE SPOKE FOR TRANSPARENCY, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS ACTION TONIGHT POSTPONING, UH, DOES NOT DELAY WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND PERMITS CAN, UH, IF THEY MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS BE ISSUED MOVING FORWARD. WE UNDERSTAND. THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING THIS EVENING. VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT. MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM, ITEM FIVE B. UM, AH, WAIT, WAIT. COMMISSIONER KATES HAS SUGGESTED WE TAKE A BREAK. SO LET'S TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK, THEN WE'LL RECONVENE HERE AT EIGHT 20 THIS EVENING. EIGHT 20 DECE. SO RECESS UNTIL EIGHT 20. I'M READY TO GO. THANK YOU, BOB. READY TO TALK IS OVER WHAT IT IS. WE'LL, UM, CALL US BACK IN SESSION AFTER OUR RECESS FOR OUR 10 MINUTE BREAK. AND THANK YOU FOR, UH, KEEPING US ON THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW BY RUNNING THAT 10 MINUTE TIMER FOR US. UM, SO WE WILL, LET'S JUMP BACK [4. CONSENT AGENDA: All items listed below within the consent agenda are considered routine by the Planning and Zoning Commission and may be enacted with one motion. There will be no separate discussion of items unless there is a Commission member or citizen request, in which event the item may be moved to the general order of business and considered in its normal sequence.] TO CONSENT FOR A SECOND. I MADE A COUPLE FOLKS NERVOUS. I MIGHT FORGET CONSENT. SO LET'S, LET'S GO BACK THERE TO CONSENT, WHICH IS SIMPLY TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 4TH, 2025. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA WITH THE MINUTES MADE BY COMMISSIONER FRIAR? SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BYRD? ANY DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT, THEN LET'S JUST VOTE AND WE'LL REVEAL THE RESULTS. UH, THAT MOTION'S APPROVED SEVEN IN FAVOR AND UNOPPOSED. AND I WILL POINT OUT THAT COMMISSIONER KELLER IS BACK WITH US NOW AFTER WE HAVING BEEN IN THE AUDIENCE FOR ALL THE ENTIRETY OF THE BUCKY'S DISCUSSION. UM, [B. HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER A PROPOSED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD) FOR A 6.46 ACRE TRACT OF LAND, LOCATED AT 727A JOHNS ROAD.] ITEM FIVE B IS TO HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AND CONSIDER PROPOSED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR A 6.46 ACRE TRACT OF LAND LOCATED AT 7 2 7 8 JOHNS ROAD. UM, TYLER, IS THIS YOURS? OKAY, COME BEFORE US PLEASE. OKAY. SORRY, I GUESS I'M IN CONTROL OF THE POWER. MAYBE, MAYBE NOT. IT IS NOT CHANGING. NO APOLOGIES, COMMISSIONERS. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THE PATIENCE. SO THIS EVENING WE ARE HERE TO DISCUSS, UH, A PROPOSAL FOR A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT. WE'LL OTHERWISE REFER TO THAT AS A PUD VERY LOVINGLY, OR A PUD AT 7 27 A JOHNS ROAD. SO I KNOW THIS IS NOT AN UNFAMILIAR PROPERTY, UH, TO THE COMMISSION, BUT JUST AS A QUICK REFRESHER OF THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION, THIS IS AT 7 27 A JOHNS ROAD. THE APPLICANT IS CARTER FELD HOFF, AND DANIEL WETZEL FROM CENTRAL LINE ENGINEERING AND CONSULTING. THE PROPERTY OWNER IS MR. DENNIS SPINELLI AND THE CURRENT LAND USE IS A HISTORIC STRUCTURE. UM, PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PROPERTY IS NOT CURRENTLY WITHIN CITY LIMITS. IT IS OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS AND IS PENDING ANNEXATION, UM, BASED ON POTENTIAL FEEDBACK FROM THIS PUD BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING. SO AGAIN, OUR CHARGE THIS EVENING IS TO CONSIDER PROPOSED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT FOR 6.46 ACRE TRACT OF LAND BRIEF PROJECT HISTORY ON THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY. UM, I KNOW THIS WILL FEEL LIKE A REFRESHER FOR EVERYONE HERE THIS EVENING, BUT, UH, IN ON FEBRUARY 3RD, THIS MEETING WAS SLATED TO OCCUR [02:15:01] AT THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. HOWEVER, THAT MEETING WAS CANCELED EVEN THOUGH SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS WERE NOTIFIED OF THE INTENT AT THAT TIME. INSTEAD, THIS ITEM CAME BEFORE P AND Z ON APRIL 7TH AS A DISCUSSION ITEM FOR THIS PROPERTY, WHICH THEN CULMINATED IN A SUBSEQUENT REZONING REQUEST ON JUNE 2ND. AND AT THAT TIME IT WAS A REQUEST TO REZONE THE PROPERTY FROM INTERIM HOLDING HOL TO A DUPLEX RESIDENTIAL OR R 3D ZONING DISTRICT WITHIN THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR, UH, OVERLAY. AND AT THAT TIME, THE REZONING REQUEST WAS FOR A 30 LOT DUPLEX SUBDIVISION BASED ON THE OUTCOME, OR PARDON ME, THE THE PUBLIC FEEDBACK WE RECEIVED DURING THAT MEETING. THAT REZONING REQUEST WAS WITHDRAWN THAT SAME MEETING THIS EVENING. INSTEAD, WE HAVE A NEW PROPOSAL FOR THAT SAME PROPERTY AND IT IS A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT REQUEST. SO LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT IS A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT. I KNOW WE DON'T RECEIVE MANY OF THESE APPLICATIONS HERE IN THE CITY. THE PURPOSE OF THEM IS THAT IT'S INTENDED FOR INFILL DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS AND DEVELOPMENT OF SITES WHICH ARE DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP BECAUSE OF THEIR SHAPE, THEIR SIZE, THEIR BUDDING DEVELOPMENT, POOR ACCESSIBILITY, UNIQUE TOPOGRAPHY OR OTHER FACTORS. THEY PROVIDE FLEXIBILITY IN THE PLANNING AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE PROPERTY, AND THEY ARE USED TO CONTRIBUTE TO A SENSE OF COMMUNITY AND A COHERENT LIVING STYLE. SO IN GENERAL, THIS MEANS THAT THERE ARE SOME FACTORS THAT AFFECT THIS PROPERTY THAT DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO FULLY COMPLY WITH A REGULAR OR A TYPICAL ZONING DISTRICT. AS WE, UH, AS WE IDENTIFIED R 3D WAS NOT A VIABLE OPTION, UH, FOR THIS PROPERTY. SO INSTEAD, THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT CONSIDERS THESE UNIQUE FACTORS AND STILL ALLOWS A COHESIVE POTENTIAL DESIGN OF THE PROPERTY WITH SOME VERY SPECIFIC DEVIATIONS FROM CODE STANDARDS. THOSE ARE HIGHLIGHTED FOR YOU ON THE SCREEN. SO FOR EXAMPLE, UH, THERE IS GENERALLY A TYPICAL REQUIREMENT OF CUL-DE-SAC, CUL-DE-SAC LENGTH, AND THE NUMBER OF UNITS THAT IT IS INTENDED TO SUPPORT. UM, WHAT WE SEE IN THIS PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT IS A SLIGHT DEVIATION FROM THAT SPECIFIC CUL-DE-SAC LENGTH. AND INSTEAD, UH, THE REASON FOR THAT DEVIATION IS THAT THEY DO NOT INTEND TO CONNECT THE SUBDIVISION TO THE SOUTH PER THE PREVIOUS COMMUNITY FEEDBACK IN PUBLIC MEETINGS. AGAIN, WE'LL GET FURTHER INTO THIS, BUT JUST TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE, THE DEVIATIONS AND WHY A PUD COULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TOOL FOR THIS COMMISSION TO EXERCISE. UM, PENDING YOUR DECISION THIS EVENING. ANOTHER DEVIATION FROM TYPICAL CODE IS THAT GENERALLY THERE ARE TWO PUBLIC ACCESS POINTS REQUIRED. INSTEAD, THE PUD PROPOSES ONE FULL PUBLIC ACCESS POINT. AND THAT IS BECAUSE AS AN ALTERNATIVE, THEY ARE PROPOSING A PRIMARY GATED ACCESS IN ADDITION TO A PROPOSED WIDENING OF EMERGENCY ACCESS PROPOSED, UH, AGAIN TO MEET THAT, THAT SAME SPIRIT OF THE TWO PUBLIC ACCESS POINTS THAT ARE TYPICALLY REQUIRED. AND LASTLY, GENERALLY THERE ARE VERY SPECIFIC GRIDDED LOT DESIGNS OR BLOCK STRUCTURE THAT THE UDC WOULD REQUIRE. INSTEAD, THIS, THIS PUD PROPOSES A MORE CURVE LINEAR DESIGN WITH A SINGLE CUL-DE-SAC. AND THE INTENTION OF THAT IS TO PRESERVE A HISTORIC STRUCTURE AS WELL AS PROMOTE GREEN SPACE WITHIN THE PROPERTY. OKAY. SO I KNOW AGAIN, WE'VE BRIEFLY VISITED THE CASE HISTORY FOR THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY. I WANNA HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN WHAT YOU SAW WITHIN THE FORMER R 3D REZONING REQUEST VERSUS WHAT IS BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING IN YOUR PACKET AND INCLUDED AS PART OF THIS PUD REQUEST. SO AGAIN, BASED ON THE COMMUNITY FEEDBACK IN THE PREVIOUS MEETING, THE APPLICANT IS OPEN TO PROHIBITING CUT THROUGH TRAFFIC TO THE VILLAS AT HAMPTON PLACE, NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE SOUTH. INSTEAD, IT WOULD TERMINATE IN A CUL-DE-SAC, WHICH RESULTS IN A UDC DEVIATION, BUT IT IS RESPONSIVE TO COMMUNITY FEEDBACK. SECONDLY, THEY PROPOSED TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF LAWS TO 29 DOWN FROM 30 IN THE PREVIOUS R 3D REZONING REQUEST. SO THOSE ARE THE MAJOR HIGHLIGHTS FOR YOU BETWEEN THE TWO. SO IN TERMS OF THE OVERARCHING PROCESS OF WHAT THIS PUD WOULD POTENTIALLY PROGRESS THROUGH, UM, BEYOND THIS EVENING, IS IT STILL SUBJECT TO ANNEXATION THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY THROUGH CITY COUNCIL ON A, A PARALLEL BUT SEPARATE PROCESS? THIS PUD WOULD THEN STILL GO BEFORE CITY COUNCIL PENDING YOUR RECOMMENDATION THIS EVENING. AND AGAIN, ALL OF THAT WOULD PRECEDE ANY KIND OF, UM, HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION APPLICATIONS, VARIANCE APPLICATIONS, [02:20:02] AS WELL AS PLATTING, UM, WHICH ARE ALL SUBJECT TO TO UDC REQUIREMENTS. LAST BUT NOT LEAST, PERMITS INCLUDING CONSTRUCTION PERMITS, BOTH HORIZONTAL AND VERTICAL, ARE ALL STILL SUBJECT TO CITY STANDARDS AND CODES AND THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL. AND THOSE ARE FUNCTIONALLY ADMINISTRATIVE AND HANDLED BY STAFF. SO A PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT, IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT IT'S SUBJECT TO THE EXACT SAME CRITERIA AS A REZONING REQUEST. INTERESTINGLY, ACCORDING TO OUR CODE, SO THIS EVENING, THE COMMISSION CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU IS NUMBER ONE, CAN CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. NUMBER TWO, WILL NOT PREVENT THE REASONABLE USE AND ENJOYMENT OF A NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. NUMBER THREE, THAT THE PROPERTY HAS ACCESS TO APPROPRIATE UTILITIES. NUMBER FOUR, WILL NOT INHIBIT THE PRESERVATION OR PROTECTION OF HISTORICAL OR CULTURAL PLACES. AND NUMBER FIVE, THAT IT MEETS A CITYWIDE NEED. SO LET'S EVALUATE EACH OF THESE FIVE CRITERIA INDIVIDUALLY BASED ON THE CONTENT THAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO US SO FAR. THE FIRST CRITERIA IS DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT IT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP IDENTIFIES THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY AS TRANSITIONAL RESIDENTIAL TO THE NORTH IMMEDIATELY IS ALSO TRANSITIONAL RESIDENTIAL TO THE EAST IS PUBLIC AND INSTITUTIONAL AND TRANSITIONAL RESIDENTIAL TO THE SOUTH NEIGHBORHOOD, RESIDENTIAL AND TO THE WEST AUTO ORIENTED COMMERCIAL. SO TRANSITIONAL RESIDENTIAL, RESIDENTIAL CATEGORIES OR THE DESIGNATION IN THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP. THOSE ARE AREAS THAT ARE DESIGNED FOR HIGHER DENSITY HOUSING WITH A MIX OF HOUSING TYPES DISTINCT FROM LOWER DENSITY NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL. THESE ARE AUTO ORIENTED WITH STREETS, DRIVEWAYS, PARKING, AND GARAGES AS DOMINANT FEATURES. THEY SERVE AS A BUFFER BETWEEN NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL AND MORE INTENSIVE NON-RESIDENTIAL USES. SO AGAIN, PERHAPS THE COMMISSION CAN ENVISION HOW THAT COULD, UM, ALIGN WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP DESIGNATION. BUT LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE SPECIFIC DETAILS OF THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS AND THEIR RESPECTIVE ZONING. SO TO THE NORTH WE HAVE A LOW DENSITY MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY IN R FOUR L AND IT IS CURRENTLY 171 UNITS IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH TO THE EAST. WE HAVE FAB ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TO THE SOUTH. AS WE ALL KNOW, WE HAVE THE VILLAS OF HAMPTON PLACE, WHICH IS ZONED R TWO M OR MODERATE DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. AND TO THE WEST WE HAVE A C3 COMMUNITY COMMERCIALLY ZONED PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT IS CURRENTLY VACANT IN TERMS OF LAND USE. THE THIRD CRITERIA IS DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPERTY HAS ACCESS TO APPROPRIATE UTILITIES AND INFRASTRUCTURE. SO THE CITY OF BERNIE CAN BE THE PROVIDER OF WATER, SEWER AND NATURAL GAS IF DESIRED BY THE APPLICANT UPON ANNEXATION. AND OUR UTILITIES DEPARTMENT HAS CONFIRMED THAT WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO SERVICE THIS PROPERTY. BASED ON THE PROPOSED USE. THE BANDERA ELECTRIC COMPANY WOULD WOULD SERVE AS THE ELECTRIC PROVIDER IN THIS CASE. THE FOURTH CRITERIA IS DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPOSAL WILL PRESERVE HISTORICAL AND CULTURAL PLACES. SO IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY, AGAIN, NOT CURRENTLY WITHIN CITY LIMITS, BUT IT IS THE SITE OF LEX SANITARIUM, WHICH IS A RECORDED TEXAS HISTORIC LANDMARK AND HAS ITS OWN GERMAN PIONEER AND AND MEDICAL HISTORY ASSOCIATED WITH IT. THE APPLICANT HAS EXPLICITLY EXPRESSED THAT THEY INTEND TO PRESERVE THE STRUCTURE AND RETAIN IT ON SITE AS A COMMUNITY FOCAL POINT AND ANY KIND OF MODIFICATIONS TO MOVE IT, TO MODIFY IT, UH, TO AFFECT IT IN ANY WAY WOULD REQUIRE THE APPROVAL OF THE TEXAS HISTORICAL COMMISSION AS WELL AS FOR OUR PURPOSES, THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION IN THE CITY OF BERNIE. SO THERE IS AN ADDED LAYER OF OVERSIGHT THERE AS WELL. CRITERIA FIVE IS DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THIS PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL MEETS A CITYWIDE NEED. THERE IS AN ATTRIBUTE THAT THIS COULD INCREASE THE HOUSING STOCK TO ADAPT TO THE RAPID GROWTH OF THIS CITY BY PROPOSING 29 DUPLEX UNITS. I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THESE WOULD BE INDIVIDUALLY PLATTED AND OWNER OCCUPIED. SO THESE ARE NOT PROPOSED RENTAL UNITS. SO THE OBJECTIVE WOULD BE TO APPEAL TO FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS, POTENTIALLY YOUNG FAMILIES AND OR RETIREES. THE TOTAL TRACT AREA, AS WE KNOW, IS 6.46 ACRES WITH A PROPOSED PRIVATE RIGHT OF WAY, DEDICATION OF 1.29 ACRES. THE COMBINED RESIDENTIAL LOT AREA OF 3.47 ACRES, AND THEN A COMMUNITY OPEN SPACE OF [02:25:01] 1.74 ACRES, WHICH ACTUALLY EXCEEDS THE, THE TYPICAL UUDC REQUIREMENT FOR OPEN SPACE FOR, UH, PROPERTY OF THIS SIZE AND DENSITY. HERE IS A CONCEPTUAL RENDERING, UM, SIMPLY FOR CONTEXT. AND NOW THAT WE'VE COVERED A LOT OF THE UDC CRITERIA ASSOCIATED WITH THE PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU CAN USE TO ARRIVE AT A DECISION. NOW WE WANTED TO PROVIDE YOU SOME ADDITIONAL PROJECT DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROPOSAL. UM, SOME OF THIS WON'T BE NEW TO YOU, BUT AGAIN, IT'LL JUST BE A REFRESHER, UH, BASED ON THE LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY. SO EVERYONE, KEEP IN MIND , THIS IS A DRAFT PROPOSAL, SO ANY KIND OF PLATTING, FUTURE PLATTING, INFRASTRUCTURAL IMPROVEMENTS, THE DESIGN, THE CONSTRUCTION, ALL OF THEM ARE SUBJECT TO FULL COMPLIANCE WITH CITY CODES, WITH ORDINANCES, WITH STANDARDS, WITH THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL. WE'RE SIMPLY HERE TONIGHT TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE ZONING TOOL OF A PLANNED, PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS PROPERTY. LET'S ALSO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SPECIFIC ENVIRONMENTAL AND ACCESS CONSTRAINTS THAT WILL BE ADDRESSED THROUGH ANY KIND OF FUTURE DEVELOPMENT PHASE, UH, LIKE PLATING, LIKE INFRASTRUCTURAL IMPROVEMENTS, BUT JUST TO PROVIDE YOU AWARENESS BEFORE ALL OF THOSE THINGS TRANSPIRE. SO THERE IS A DRAINAGE WAY PROTECTION ZONE THAT RUNS EAST TO WEST ACROSS THIS PROPERTY. IT'S APPROXIMATELY 110 FEET WIDE. THIS MEANS IT IS FUNCTIONALLY A NO DEVELOPMENT, NO BUILD ZONE, AND BOTH THE SIZE OF IT AS WELL AS THE PRECISE LOCATION OF IT WOULD BE VERIFIED DURING PLATTING. AGAIN, LATER IN THE POTENTIAL DEVELOPMENT PROCESS OF THIS SITE, THERE ARE ACCESS CONSTRAINTS FOR THIS PROPERTY AS WELL, AGAIN, BASED ON COMMUNITY FEEDBACK FROM THE PREVIOUS MEETING, PREVIOUS PUBLIC HEARING ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROPERTY. WHILE THE PROPERTY DOES HAVE ACCESS TO RIGHT OF WAY ON ITS SOUTHERN BOUNDARY VIA HAMPTON WAY VIA RECORDED PLAT, THE PUD WOULD RESTRICT THIS ACCESS AS A, AS A PROPOSED COMMUNITY COURTESY TO THE VILLAS AT HAMPTON WAY TO THE SOUTH, THERE IS A 25 FOOT WIDE PRIVATE CROSS ACCESS ROAD ALONG THE WESTERN BOUNDARY OF THIS PARCEL. AND THE APPLICANT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO SHOW A LEGAL USE OF THIS EASEMENT, UM, FOR PLATTING TO TO OCCUR. THE APPLICANT IS ALSO PLANNING TO ENGAGE THE BERNIE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT REGARDING A 26 FOOT WIDE EMERGENCY ACCESS EASEMENT TO THE EAST. SO TO TRY TO ZOOM BACK OUT AND, AND PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME OF THE DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH, WITH THIS CASE, WE'D BE REMISS IF WE DIDN'T ACKNOWLEDGE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT SPECIFIC TO THIS PUD APPLICATION. SO THERE WAS A BERNIE NEIGHBORHOOD DISCUSSION, UH, MEETING THAT WAS VIRTUALLY HOSTED ON JANUARY 21ST, 2025, SOCIALIZING THE POTENTIAL PROJECT ON THIS PROPERTY. AND THERE WERE THREE ATTENDEES PRESENT FOR THAT VIRTUAL MEETING FOR THIS PUD SPECIFICALLY, NEWSPAPER NOTICES AS WELL AS MAIL NOTIFICATIONS, UH, WERE DISSEMINATED ON AUGUST 28TH, 2025, THEY WERE SENT THE MAIL NOTIFICATION SPECIFICALLY REACHED 74, UH, PROPERTY OWNERS WITHIN 500 FEET OF THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY. OF THOSE 74 NOTICES, WE RECEIVED, UH, THREE RESPONSES. ACTUALLY SCRATCH THAT FOUR BECAUSE ONE HAS BEEN PUT ON, ON THE DIOCESE EVENING BEFORE YOU. SO FOUR RESPONSES WERE RECEIVED. UH, TWO IN FAVOR AND THEN ONE OPPOSED. IN ADDITION TO THE COMMENT PROVIDED BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING. AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, THERE WAS A PUBLIC NOTICE SIGN THAT WAS ADVERTISED ON THE PROPERTY AND POSTED ON AUGUST 23RD, 2025. SO AGAIN, TO REVISIT THE SPECIFIC DECISION CRITERIA FOR THIS PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT THIS EVENING, IT'S DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROPOSAL IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WE HAVE DETERMINED THAT TRADITIONAL, PARDON ME, TRANSITIONAL RESIDENTIAL IS APPROPRIATE FOR A HIGHER DENSITY PROPOSED HOUSING DESIGN. AND IT IS INTENDED TO SERVE AS A BUFFER BETWEEN OTHER TYPES OF LAND USE DESIGNATIONS. IT'S DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT IT WILL PREVENT THE REASONABLE USE AND ENJOYMENT OF A NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. THE COMMISSION CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT IS IN FACT A COMPATIBLE USE CONSIDERING THE SURROUNDING LAND USES THAT ARE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO IT ON ALL SIDES. WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT THE PROPERTY DOES HAVE ACCESS TO APPROPRIATE UTILITIES, WATER, SEWER, AND GAS IF DESIRED, THROUGH THE CITY OF BURN, AS WELL AS POTENTIAL ELECTRIC THROUGH BANDERA ELECTRIC. [02:30:01] AND IT WILL NOT INHIBIT THE PRESERVATION OR PROTECTION OF HISTORICAL OR CULTURAL PLACES. WE HAVE IDENTIFIED THAT THERE IS A TEXAS HISTORIC LANDMARK ON SITE ON THE PROPERTY. THE APPLICANT HAS EXPRESSED EXPLICIT INTENT TO PRESERVE THAT PROPERTY AND ANY ATTEMPT TO MODIFY IT OR MOVE IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO APPROVAL BY THE TEXAS HISTORIC LANDMARK, UH, ENTITY AS WELL AS THE HISTORIC LANDMARK COMMISSION HERE IN THE CITY OF BERNIE. AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, DETERMINING WHETHER IT MEETS A CITYWIDE NEED, UM, PERHAPS BY INCREASING THE HOUSING STOCK TO ADAPT TO THE RAPID GROWTH THAT OUR CITY IS EXPERIENCING. THERE ARE STIPULATIONS THAT STAFF HAS RECOMMENDED THAT WOULD COINCIDE WITH THIS RECOMMENDATION. IT'LL TAKE ME A MINUTE TO READ THROUGH THEM. SO I APPRECIATE ANY GRACE AND PATIENCE YOU CAN AFFORD ME WHILE WE LOOK AT THEM TOGETHER. SO THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION SHOULD HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING TO DETERMINE IF THE REQUEST MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF UDC TWO FIVE C FIVE, THE APPROVAL CRITERIA. WE JUST WENT OVER TOGETHER AND IF THE COMMISSION CHOOSES TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE INCLUSION OF THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS. UH, AND I I SHOULD ALSO, I'D BE REMISS IF I DIDN'T MENTION THAT MY COLLEAGUES FROM ENGINEERING, UM, GRACIOUSLY AND COMPREHENSIVELY PROVIDED THE SEVEN STIPULATIONS RECOMMENDED STIPULATIONS THAT YOU SEE THIS EVENING THAT COULD COINCIDE WITH YOUR DECISION. NUMBER ONE, THE PUD SHALL SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO THE PUD PLAN PACKET DATE STAMPED SEPTEMBER 2ND, 2025. NUMBER TWO, THAT AN EMERGENCY ACCESS EASEMENT SHALL BE APPROVED BY BISD THAT MEETS ALL CITY AND FIRE CODE REQUIREMENTS. NUMBER THREE, ALL PRIVATE STREETS SHALL BE DESIGNED AND CONSTRUCTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH UDC AND APPLICABLE CONSTRUCTION DETAILS FOR PUBLICLY DEDICATED STREETS AS DESCRIBED IN UDC 7.4 B GATED ENTRANCE LAYOUT TO COMPLY WITH REQUIREMENTS OF UDC 7.5 B AND THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL OF 2.9 0.1. ALL DEAD END ROADWAYS SHALL COMPLY WITH THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL, 2.1 0.1 STREET LAYOUTS, DRAINAGE FEATURES, UTILITIES, OR OTHER IMPROVEMENTS SHOWN HEREIN ARE CONCEPTUAL ONLY AND SHALL NOT BE CONSIDERED APPROVED FOR CONSTRUCTION. FINAL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION ARE SUBJECT TO FULL COMPLIANCE WITH ALL CITY CODES, ORDINANCES AND STANDARDS, AND THIS PUD SHALL BE NULL AND VOID IF ANY OF THESE CONDITIONS ARE NOT MET. ADDITIONALLY, THE PUD MUST COMPLY WITH EXPIRATION AND AMENDMENT REGULATIONS OUTLINED IN UDC TWO DASH FIVE. WITH THAT, HERE ARE SOME MOTIONS BEFORE YOU FOR CONSIDERATION THIS EVENING. MS. KANE, THANK YOU FOR THAT VERY THOROUGH AND DETAILED AND EXCELLENT PRESENTATION. UM, BEFORE I OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION. WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR MAINTAINING THAT DPZ SECTION? I MEAN, WHEN THAT STARTS TO GROW, HOPEFULLY IT'LL GET RAIN, IT'LL GROW. WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING THAT MODE MAINTAINED? SO IT'S NOT AN EYESORE. UM, OBVIOUSLY IF IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD, MR. CARLTON, THIS MAY BE MORE ADDRESSED TO YOU THAN MS. KANE. IF IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD, CITY'S NOT GONNA GO IN THERE AND DO THIS. SO WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS AND HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT THIS DOESN'T BECOME A PROBLEM THAT PEOPLE CALL THE CITY AND SAY, HEY LOOK, THIS NEEDS TO BE MOWED. MR. CARROLL, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS? AGAIN, WE'RE VERY PRELIMINARY IN THE STAGE, BUT I WOULD, I WOULD ASSUME IS THAT WOULD BE A PUBLIC DRAINAGE EASEMENT THAT GOES THROUGH THERE. IT'D BE THE HOA WOULD OWN THE PROPERTY, BUT THEN IT WOULD BE A PUBLIC DRAINAGE EASEMENT. AND THAT WOULD GIVE US, NOW WE, AS THE CITY MOWING, THESE TYPE OF AREAS, WE KIND OF ARE A ONCE OR TWICE A YEAR SHREDDING TYPE OPERATION TO MAKE SURE NEW BUSHES AND TREES DON'T GROW, WHICH AFFECT DRAINAGE. UM, NOT NECESSARILY A FINISHED GRASS MOWING OPERATION, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. SO WE WOULD DO IT THEN, LIKE WE DO THE NUMBER NINE? CORRECT. OKAY. DON'T THEY ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THEY GATE IT? UM, SO YEAH, THE STREETS WOULD BE, THEY'RE LOOKING AT DOING PRIVATE STREETS, BUT THAT DRAINAGE ACTUALLY IS, WE'D CALL IT PUBLIC WATER 'CAUSE IT COMES OFF THE INTERSTATE AND EVEN LAND FURTHER UPSTREAM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE INTERSTATE. SO WE WOULD CLASSIFY THAT AS PUBLIC DRAINAGE. ANYTHING ELSE? COMMISSIONER BIRD? NO, SIR. OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING? COMMISSIONER LER? YES. JUST LOOKING AT THE DRAFT LAYOUT PLAN, UM, IT LOOKS LIKE ALL INGRESS EGRESS, EVEN EMERGENCY ACCESS HYPOTHETICALLY THROUGH BISD IS ALL ON THE NORTH END OF THE PROPERTY. IS THERE ANY RISK THAT THE DRAINAGE PROTECTION ZONE BECOMES IMPASSABLE AT ANY POINT THROUGH AN EVENT? SO AGAIN, FOLLOWING OUR, [02:35:01] OUR CODE REQUIREMENTS OF SOME OF THE STIPULATIONS WE REQUESTED, THE CITY OF BURN WOULD RE REQUIRE THAT DRAINAGE STRUCTURE TO BE DESIGNED FOR THE A HUNDRED YEAR EVENT. AND BY THE FACT THAT IT'S A DRAINAGE WAY PROTECTION ZONE AND IT'S A LOCAL STREET CROSSING, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT SPANS OVER THE DPZ. SO IT'D BE MORE OF A BRIDGE OR ARCH STRUCTURE INSTEAD OF A PIPE OR BOX STRUCTURE BECAUSE IT HAS TO SPAN OVER THE DRAINAGE, JOY PROTECTION ZONE TO PROTECT THE NATURAL STREAM THERE. UM, AGAIN, THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM, WE KNOCK ON WOOD, WE AND BERNIE HAVEN'T HAD A HUNDRED YEAR STORM IN QUITE A WHILE. OUR NEIGHBORS UP NORTH HAD A THOUSAND YEAR STORM LAST MONTH. SO WE CAN'T DESIGN FOR EVERYTHING. UH, I GUESS I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT IN REGARDS TO ALL DRIVEWAYS, IN AND OUT, ESPECIALLY DURING A SAFETY EVENT, COULD MAKE IT IMPASSABLE TO GET TO THE SOUTH END OF THE DEVELOPMENT OR A MAJOR FIRE. THE, THE WAY IT'S DRAWN OUT, YES. OKAY. AND MAYBE IT'S A QUESTION FOR THE DEVELOPER, BUT IS THAT HYPOTHETICALLY EASY TO MOVE SMITH LANE TO A DIFFERENT SIDE OF THE DPZ? I WOULD'VE TO DEFER TO THAT, YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. JEFF, SORRY BEING SO ROUGH ON YOU TONIGHT. I'VE GOT ONE OTHER QUESTION REAL QUICK, MR. BIRD. YEAH, JUST 1, 1, 1 OTHER QUICK QUESTION. SO WHEN THIS CAME TO US, UH, LAST TIME AND THE, THE RESIDENTS FROM HAMPTON COVE IS THAT, UH, WHEN THEY PRESENTED THEIR ARGUMENT ABOUT A, THE THOROUGHFARE GOING THROUGH THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, DID ANYBODY SPEAK TO THEM ABOUT MAKING THAT THE EMERGENCY ACCESS SO THAT IT WOULDN'T BE USED EXCEPT FOR IN THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY AND THEN EVERYBODY KINDA WINS AGAIN? I WOULD PREFER TO THE APPLICANT ON THAT. OKAY. UM, MS, PLEASE COME FORWARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. DANIEL WETZEL, UH, 1 0 1 WOODS OF BURN. UM, WE DID CONSIDER THAT AND THE HOA UH, INDICATED THAT ANY ACCESS OF ANY TYPE TO THE SOUTH, UH, WOULD NOT BE, UM, ACCEPTABLE TO THEM. AND SO THAT'S HOW WE ARRIVED AT THIS. UH, THERE WAS ONE, I NEED TO MAKE ONE MINOR CLARIFICATION THAT, THAT THE ACCESS EASEMENT ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY IS ACTUALLY A 30 FOOT WIDE ACCESS EASEMENT AND IT ALLOWS ONE SINGLE 25 FOOT WIDE ACCESS POINT TO THE PROPERTY. AND SO ON THE SCREEN, YOU CAN SEE THIS POINT HERE WHERE THAT LITTLE BOX IS, THAT'S OUR 25 FOOT WIDE ACCESS POINT TO THE ACCESS EASEMENT. THE ACCESS EASEMENT ITSELF IS ACTUALLY 30 FEET WIDE THAT RUNS FROM, UH, JOHNS ROAD ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE HOTEL AND THEN GOES OUT TO I 10. BUT OUR ACCESS POINT BASED ON THE EASEMENT AGREEMENT, UM, THAT WAS EXECUTED, I BELIEVE, OR EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, ALLOWS FOR ONE SINGLE 25 POINT ACCESS. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE LAYOUT WE DO. UM, AND DESIGNING FOR THAT A HUNDRED YEAR STORM IS, IS THE MOST, UH, CONSERVATIVE WE CAN BE TO ALLOW THAT EMERGENCY ACCESS ACROSS THERE TO, UH, ADDRESS COMMISSIONER ERS QUESTION. THANK YOU MR. BIRD. STILL LOOK PERPLEXED. YOU'RE THINKING OF SOMETHING I KNOW. NO, I'M, LISTEN, NO QUESTION. I HAVE, I HAVE AN ERIC . OH, SORRY TO HEAR THAT. UH, LET ME FOLLOW UP, UM, JUST MOMENTARILY. UH, MR. CARROLL, WE HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR WITH BRENTWOOD, DON'T WE, WHERE WE'VE GOT A GATE JUST FOR EMERGENCY ACCESS ONLY BETWEEN TWO NEIGHBORHOODS, NO REAL ACCESS BACK AND FORTH. WOULD YOU ELABORATE ON THAT? YES. THERE'S MULTIPLE LOCATIONS IN TOWN, UH, BENWOOD TO CHAMPION HEIGHTS. THERE'S ACTUALLY FROM CHAMPION TO WOODS OF BURNEY, THERE'S A GATE THERE AS WELL BETWEEN THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND THEN REGENT PARK TO, UH, JUST FORGOT THE OTHER NEIGHBORHOOD TO THE SOUTH OF IT, BUT WE HAVE MULTIPLE GATES BETWEEN NEIGHBORHOODS FOR EMERGENCY ACCESS. SO WOULD THAT BE A GOOD IDEA HERE TO HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT? OR ALTERNATIVELY, IF THERE'S A MASSIVE FLOOD AND THE DRAINAGE WAY IS BLOCKED AND YOU CANNOT GET TO THE CUL-DE-SAC EITHER FROM THE EASEMENT, THE 25 FOOT ACCESS POINT THAT MR. WETZEL JUST REFERENCED, OR THE BISD EMERGENCY ACCESS POINT, UM, COULDN'T YOU THEN MOVE THE 25 FOOT ACCESS ACCESS POINT DOWN LOWER AND YOU'LL HAVE TWO ACCESS POINTS IN EITHER CASE AVAILABLE TO ACCESS ALL THE HOMES IN THE POD IN AN EMERGENCY? AGAIN, OUR CITY CO-OWNER O ONLY REQUIRES TO THE A HUNDRED YEAR DRAIN EVENT THAT THEY DESIGN. UM, BUT YES, THAT SOUNDS, THAT WOULD BE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT PROPERTY DOESN'T GO ALL THE WAY DOWN. THERE'S KIND OF THE LINE, RIGHT? UM, AT SOME POINT I BELIEVE. UM, BUT YES, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S DEFINITELY POSSIBLE. AND I KNOW THE LOT COUNT JUST FROM PAST CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR FIRE MARSHAL, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE LESS THAN 30 HOMES ALLOWS THEM TO KEEP THE ONE POINT OF ACCESS. UM, BUT I KNOW [02:40:01] EVENTUALLY IF THEY GO TO CERTAIN BUILDING HEIGHTS, THEY COULD HAVE TO GO TO THE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS FOR A FIRE CODE. OKAY. I'M JUST CONCERNED THERE'S GONNA BE 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, ABOUT A DOZEN HOMES THAT COULD BE CUT OFF IN THE EVENT OF A FLOOD EVENT THAT WE CAN'T GET ACCESS TO THE WAY IT'S LAID OUT NOW. WHEREAS IF YOU MOVE THAT ACCESS POINT FURTHER SOUTH, THEN YOU'VE GOT ACCESS POINTS SORT OF ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE PROJECT THAT YOU CAN GET TO IN AN EMERGENCY. YES, IT, AGAIN, WE GO THROUGH MOST OF OUR AREA OF, OF TOWN. I MEAN, LOOK AT FROM THE FIRE STATION, THE POLICE STATION, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE MANY OTHER DRAINAGE STRUCTURES TO GET TO THAT MANY OF THEM. WE'VE ONLY BEEN DOING THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS, BUT THERE WE HAVE MANY STRUCTURES THAT ARE NOT, TXDOT DOES NOT DESIGN TO THE A HUNDRED YEAR STORM EVENT. MOST OF OUR TDOT STRUCTURES ARE 25 OR 50 YEAR STORM EVENTS. UM, BUT YES, DEFINITELY ANYTHING THAT WE COULD DO TO HELP, I WOULD DEFINITELY BE IN SUPPORT OF. OKAY, THANK YOU. FISHER, KATES, YOU HAD YEAH, A COUPLE OF, A COUPLE OF POINTS, BUT ONE POINT, AND WE HAD DISCUSSED THIS, UH, LAST TIME YOU WERE BEFORE THIS, THE, UH, ACCESS POINT, THE, THE CUL-DE-SAC WHERE DIDN'T WANT, UH, ACCESS INTO THE HAMPTON, UM, TALKED ABOUT HAVING AN ACTUAL DEED RESTRICTION TO PRE PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING. BECAUSE I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE CUL-DE-SAC THAT'S EXISTING WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, A LOT OF THOSE NEIGHBORS SINK, THEY'RE PROTECTED BECAUSE IT IS A CUL-DE-SAC WHEN IN FACT YOU CAN JUST, UH, PULL OFF THE END OF THAT AND GO, UH, WITH ANOTHER STREET, UH, IF YOU WANT TO. SEEMS LIKE YOU COULD DO THE SAME THING, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVEN'T INITIALLY PLANNED THIS WAY, WANTS TO PREVENT AT SOME POINT CONNECTING THOSE TWO CUL-DE-SACS. WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING ONE STEP FURTHER THAN THAT. COMMISSIONER KATES, WE HAVE PROPOSED TO FILE A FIVE FOOT NON-ACCESS EASEMENT ALONG THE SOUTH PROPERTY LINE CONTINGENT UPON THE APPROVAL BY P AND Z OF THE ZONING. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT. YES, SIR. IS, IS DOING OKAY. AND THEN, UH, YA DIDN'T WANNA SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY ON OF MY TIME OF GOING THROUGH ALL THAT AND THEN HAVE TO UNWIND IT IN THE EVENT WE DIDN'T GET APPROVED. SO, AND THEN, UH, AS FAR AS THAT, UH, DRAINAGE PROTECTION ZONE, AS I RECALL GOING OUT THERE, THIS, THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THAT'S ON, ON A MAP MORE THAN ON THE GROUND. IS THAT CORRECT? OR IS THAT, OR IS THAT, UH, MR. CAROL? YEAH. YES, DEFINITELY OUR DRAINAGE WAY PROTECTION ZONES. AGAIN, WE START OUR CALCULATIONS AT 25 ACRES AND THAT THERE'S JUST BARELY FROM MEMORY, THERE'S JUST BARELY MORE THAN 25 ACRES OF WATER THAT DRAINS HERE. BUT, UH, THE WATERSHED GROUP THAT PUT TOGETHER THE CODE PICK 25 ACRES, BUT THERE ARE SOME TIMES THAT SOME OF OUR 25 ACRE DRAINAGE AREAS DON'T LOOK VERY DEFINED CHANNEL. YEAH. SO I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S A, A CREEK RUNNING THROUGH THERE OR WELL-DEFINED. SO I, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S AS BIG A CONCERN AS IT MIGHT BE IN ANOTHER LOCATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, AT THIS POINT, LET ME OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, MR. WETZEL, YOU'RE FIRST UP. SO CAN MAKE ONE COMMENT JUST ABOUT THAT. YES, GO RIGHT AHEAD. AND I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME CONCERN ABOUT ACCESSING ACROSS THAT AND, UH, MR. CARROLL MADE A, MADE A REALLY GOOD POINT THAT JOGGED MY MEMORY. THIS IS NEAR THE TOP OF A, OF A DRAINAGE BASIN. THERE'S, THERE'S ONLY ABOUT 27 28 ACRES I THINK THAT DRAIN THROUGH HERE. THEY ALL COME UNDER I 10. UM, AND THEN ACROSS. AND SO BEING AT THE, AT, AT THE VERY, VERY HIGH END OF A, OF A, OF A DRAINAGE BASIN AND DESIGNING THAT, THAT CROSSING FOR A HUNDRED YEAR LESSENS SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS FROM, FROM MY STANDPOINT AS AN ENGINEER. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD MR. WETZEL AS PART OF THE PUBLIC HEARING? I JUST HAVE ONE THING. THIRD TIME'S A CHARM. RIGHT. ALRIGHT, THERE YOU GO. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, THAT MEANS MR. RIGGS KIRK, COME FORWARD IF YOU WILL. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. THANK YOU. TIM OR SIR? NO, TIM'S FINE. IT'S NOT, IT WORKS A CASUAL, IT'S NOT A CASUAL OCCASION. I'M YOUR FRIEND. EXCUSE ME. CALL ME TIM. UM, I LIVE AT 5 37 JOHNS ROAD. I ALSO HAVE A HOME IN, UH, HAMPTON BEND AT ONE 30 HAMPTON BEND. I'VE OWNED THAT FOR ABOUT 15 YEARS. IT'S A RENTAL. UM, KUDOS TO ALL THE WORK THAT'S BEEN DONE. I CAN'T DISAGREE WITH, UM, HOW THIS HAS BEEN PROPOSED. MY CONCERN HERE TONIGHT IS, UM, ABOUT THE CONTINUAL GAINING, UH, ADDING TO TRAFFIC ON JOHNS ROAD. WE HAVE THE BLUFF VIEW APARTMENTS THAT WERE JUST COMPLETED, THAT ARE DOWN THERE ON THAT, UH, DEAD END THAT ARE FORCED DOWN THIS WAY. AND, UH, NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT ANOTHER 29 UNITS. UM, I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT AT SOME POINT THAT, UH, THERE'S A PLAN TO EXPAND ACCESS TO JOHNS ROAD TO, UH, MAKE IT LESS DANGEROUS. I'VE LOST TRACK OF HOW MANY TIMES I'VE HAD TO DO AN EMERGENCY MANEUVER TO KEEP SOMEBODY FROM CLIMBING IN THE BACK OF MY TRUCK FROM, THEY'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION AS I'M TRYING TO TURN INTO MY DRIVEWAY ON 5 37. [02:45:01] MY WIFE HAS TOLD ME SEVERAL TIMES THAT SHE'S HAD TO ABANDON HER, TURN INTO THE DRIVEWAY TO KEEP GOING AND THEN TURN AT A, FIND SOMEWHERE SAFER TO TURN AND THEN CIRCLE AROUND AND COME BACK INTO OUR PROPERTY. SO JUST FOR THAT REASON ALONE, UM, I AM HERE TO SAY I, AND I'M THE ONE GUY, THE THE ONE THAT, UH, CHECKED NO AND MAILED IT BACK. THAT WAS ME. UM, SO I'M, I'M HERE TO SAY, UM, WHATEVER I CAN DO TO PERSUADE YOU, UM, I'D LIKE TO SEE THIS SET ASIDE, TABLED, CANCELED, WHATEVER THE TERM IS. UM, WE JUST HAVE SO MUCH TRAFFIC ON JOHNS ROAD AS IT IS, AND UNTIL WE CAN GET THAT, UM, WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD IS A PROPOSAL TO WIDEN IT AND PUT IT IN A TURNING LANE AND, AND MAKE THINGS MORE ACCESSIBLE, I DON'T THINK WE NEED ANY MORE, UM, NEW RESIDENTS USING JOHNS ROAD AS AN EGRESS. UM, SO THAT'S WHAT I HAD TO SAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. MS. CAROL, WOULD YOU RESPOND, 'CAUSE I KNOW JOHN'S ROAD WAS PART OF THE BOND PACKAGE AS I RECALL. WHAT ARE THE PLANS FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO JOHN'S ROAD? SO WE HAVE A, A COUPLE DIFFERENT PROJECTS IDENTIFIED IN THE CITY'S CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN. UM, CIP. SO IN THE CURRENT BOND PACKAGE, WE ARE LOOKING AT INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS AT JOHNS SCHOOL STREET. WE'VE BEEN DESIGNING INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS THERE AS IT COMES WITH MOST OF OUR CITY PROJECTS. UM, RIGHT AWAY ACQUISITION IS OUR MAJOR PROBLEM. AND SO WE ACTUALLY JUST COUNCIL A PREVIOUS COUNCIL MEETING, GOT TWO OF THE CORNERS OF THAT INTERSECTION. WE HAD SOME ADDITIONAL RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO PURCHASE FROM THE LANDOWNERS. UM, SO WE'RE MOVING FORWARD KIND OF THROUGH THAT DESIGN. WE HAVE DONE SOME SCHEMATICS OF, AS MENTIONED TO KIND OF A CONVERSION FROM A TWO LANE TO THREE LANE PROJECT. RIGHT NOW, IT'S NOT IN OUR FIVE YEAR CIP PROGRAM, BUT IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING WITH THE COUNCIL'S, UH, IDEAS. WE CAN LOOK AT MOVING THAT AT A DIFFERENT TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. I MEAN THAT JOHNS ROAD IS NOT A STATE ROAD, RIGHT? IT'S A IT'S A CITY ROAD. IT, IT'S A CITY ROAD THAT YES, THAT WE INHERITED FROM THE COUNTY, BUT YES, IT'S A CITY ROAD TODAY. OKAY. COULD WE LOOK AT REDUCING THE SPEED LIMIT? SO I UNDERSTAND, I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE MR. RIGGS LIVES AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. WHEN YOU GO STRAIGHT TOWARDS, UH, THE OLD FIBER, THE NEW ADMIN BUILDING FOR BISD AND ACTUALLY TOWARDS CITY HALL, UM, IT'S A STRAIGHT SHOT AND THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS THAT GO PRETTY QUICK DOWN THAT STRETCH AND HE'S TRYING TO TURN RIGHT INTO HIS DRIVEWAY. SO WE, WE ALWAYS CAN LOOK AT SPEED LIMITS. THERE'S ACTUALLY A DEFINED PROCESS THROUGH THE STATE. UM, UNFORTUNATELY THE WAY THE STATE RULE WORKS IS WE HAVE TO GO DO A SPEED STUDY AND THEN WE HAVE TO DEFINE WHAT THE 85 PERCENTILE OF THE TRAFFIC DRIVING DOWN THE STREET IS. AND IF THE RESULTS OF OUR STUDY COULD MAKE US ACTUALLY RAISE THE SPEED LIMIT IF WE SEE THAT THE 85 PERCENTILE OF TRAFFIC IS GOING AT A HIGHER THAN THE POSTED SPEED. UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S A DEFINED PROCESS THROUGH THE, THE STATE FOR ESTABLISHING SPEED ZONES. BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD LOOK AT AND WE DO, UM, JOHNS ROAD IS ONE OF THE STREETS THAT WE DO OUR COUNTS ON. WE HAVE AN ANNUAL STREET COUNTING PROGRAM, KINDA PUT THE BLACK RUBBER HOSES OUT ON THE STREET. IT COUNTS CARS. WE CAN ACTUALLY GO BACK AND PULL, UH, SPEED VOLUME FROM THAT DATA. OR WE COULD ALSO HAVE, UH, BERNIE PD PUT THEIR LITTLE SPEED TRAILER OUT TO MONITOR SPEED. UM, BUT ONCE WE DO THE ACTUAL SPEED STUDY, IT OPENS UP SOME ADDITIONAL UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES SOMETIMES. SO SPEEDING HAS ITS PRIVILEGES. YES, IT GOES BACK TO OUR CONVERSATIONS AND CITIZENS COMMITTEE THAT SOMETIMES THE DESIGN SPEED OF A ROAD OR PEOPLE WILL NATURALLY DRIVE THE COMFORTABLE SPEED OF THAT ROADWAY. AND SO LONG STRAIGHT ROADS, IT'S VERY EASY FOR PEOPLE TO GO FASTER. AND SO THAT'S WHY SOME OF OUR RULES, UM, FOR DEAD ENDS OR OTHER THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT HELP MAINTAIN, TRYING TO MAKE, NOT PREVENT LONG STRAIGHT ROADS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. UM, OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. CARROLL OR LET'S SEE, STAFF COMMISSIONER FRIAR. WHAT HAPPENS IF A PUD IS APPROVED AND THE STIPULATIONS THAT YOU LISTED CANNOT BE MET? THEN WHAT HAPPENS? UH, WELL, THANKFULLY WE DID HAVE A STIPULATION THAT CONTEMPLATED THAT, THAT INDICATED THIS PUD SHALL BE NULL AND VOID IF ANY OF THESE CONDITIONS ARE NOT MET. SO IT JUST GOES AWAY. MM-HMM . AND THE PROPERTY THEN HAS NO ZONING, NO, NOTHING IS, I'LL DEFER TO MY FEARLESS LEADER, BUT THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. YEAH. THE ZONING STAYS, BUT THE ACTUAL PLAN IS WHAT EXPIRES. SO THEY'D HAVE TO COME IN AND GET A NEW PLAN. SO WHAT ZONING IS ESTABLISHED WITH THE PUD? IT WOULD BE P PD THAT'S CLEAR AS MUD. SO WHAT EXPIRES? WELL, LET ME, LEMME BACK UP FOR A SECOND. NO, WHAT'S EXPIRING? LET ME, LET ME GO AHEAD. WELL, MR. CRANE, LET BACK UP FOR A SECOND. MY ERROR, MY MISTAKE. MY BAD. WE'RE STILL A PUBLIC HEARING. [02:50:01] OH, SORRY. SO I, I SHOULDN'T HAVE CALLED ON YOU. I, I, I'D LIKE IT WHEN YOU SPEAK, BUT I SHOULDN'T HAVE CALLED ON YOU ANYWAY. SO CAN WE CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING? I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY ELSE SIGN UP TO SPEAK, BUT IF YOU WANNA COME BEFORE US DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING. YES, SIR. PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND, UH, SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS. MY NAME IS RAMIRO GUERRERO. I AM THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, UH, FOR BERNIE, ISD. AND, UH, I'D LIKE TO, I'D LIKE TO ADDRESS A COUPLE OF THINGS, UH, WITH THIS, UH, WITH THIS, UH, ZONING. WE, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT EARLIER ABOUT, UH, TRUST AND TRANSPARENCY, THINGS LIKE THAT. WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE APPLICATION, IT ACTUALLY STATES THAT, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS ALSO BEEN IN DISCUSSIONS WITH BERNIE, ISD, UH, TO OBTAIN THE 26 FOOT EMERGENCY ACCESS EASEMENT THROUGH THE PROPERTY EAST, UH, OF THE SUBJECT TRACK. THIS EASEMENT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO ENSURE SAFETY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT. AND, UH, WE HAVE NOT HAD THOSE DISCUSSIONS, UH, THROUGH, UH, THE DEVELOPER AND BISD NOW, NOT TO SAY THAT THAT, UH, THAT THAT WE ARE AGAINST IT OR FOR IT OR, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN PROVIDED ANYTHING. AND SO THIS IS NOT A DECISION THAT I CAN MAKE. THIS IS NOT A DECISION THAT THAT, UH, UH, UH, THE SITUATION IS GOING TO HELP. WHAT, WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT AS WE, AS, AS I SAW EARLIER, YOU ALL HAVE A VERY, UH, HEAVY RESPONSIBILITY THROUGH ZONING, DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT. UH, OUR BOARD OF TRUSTEES HAS A HEAVY RESPONSIBILITY AS WELL. AND, UH, I AM, I APPRECIATE THE STIPULATIONS THAT WERE PUT IN, AND I TOO WOULD LIKE AN ANSWER TO, UH, IF THESE STIPULATIONS ARE NOT MET, UH, ONE OR NUMBER TWO BEING THE APPROVAL BY BISD, WHAT HAPPENS THEN? AND, UH, TO SAY THAT IT'S JUST AN EGRESS FOR, FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT. WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER THINGS. RIGHT NOW, WE LIVE IN A TERRIBLE WORLD THAT WE HAVE TO THINK THIS WAY, BUT OUR SAFETY AND SECURITY FOR OUR KIDS AND OUR STAFF IS PARAMOUNT. AND TO ALLOW SOMETHING THAT, UH, TAKES AWAY OR ADDS A, UH, A A WAY TO GET ONTO OUR CAMPUS OR THINGS LIKE THAT, WE REALLY HAVE TO LOOK AT IT VERY CLOSELY BECAUSE, UH, THAT WEIGHT IS ON OUR BOARD OF TRUSTEES AND THEY TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY. AND IN SAYING THAT, UH, THE FLOOD, THE, THE FLOODING THAT WOULD COME OFF, I, I DEFINITELY, UH, APPRECIATE THE CITY AND HOW IT'S LOOKED AT A LOT OF THE DIFFERENT WAYS AND HOW, UH, THE FLOODING WOULDN'T AFFECT, UH, OUR SCHOOL. BUT THERE AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING. I, I KNOW THAT MAYBE IT'S TOO PRELIMINARY FOR US TO LOOK AT IT, BUT WE TALK TO PEOPLE, UH, UH, IN DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS, THINGS LIKE THAT AT EVERY STAGE. AND WE HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING HERE. AND WE HAVE TO, UH, WE HAVE TO, TO LOOK AT THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IS HOW IS THE DEVELOPMENT GOING TO PROTECT, UH, OUR KIDS. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S WHILE IT'S BEING DEVELOPED, WHILE THESE THINGS ARE ARE GOING ON, THE OTHER THING THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT IS KIDS ARE KIDS AND THEY LIVE HERE, AND THE SCHOOL IS THERE. WE REQUIRE ALL OF OUR KIDS TO COME IN THROUGH THE FRONT. IT WOULD BE SO EASY FOR THE KIDS IN THIS DEVELOPMENT TO JUST SAY, I'LL JUST CLIMB THAT FENCE. I'LL JUMP OVER THIS. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO THINK OF. AND, UH, I APPRECIATE, UH, EVERYONE'S TIME AND, UH, AND, AND, AND HEARING HERE, UH, ON, ON THIS MATTER. BUT AGAIN, UM, IT IS, IT IS, UM, IT IS A GOOD QUESTION TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENS IF, UH, THESE STIPULATIONS AREN'T MET. WHICH FOR US, IT WOULD BE THE APPROVAL BY OUR, OUR BOARD OF TRUSTEES. OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING THAT WITH US. UM, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS AN ISSUE OF GREAT IMPORT TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. UM, ANYONE ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? YES, MR. WETZEL, COME BACK AND YOU MAY RESPOND TO THAT. SO, PROVIDED A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY, WE DID MEET WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT LAST YEAR AND THEY INDICATED, UH, ALONG WITH THEIR ENGINEERING TEAM, AND THEY DID INDICATE AN OPENNESS TO CONSIDER THAT EASEMENT. BUT GIVEN THE, UM, CHALLENGES WE'VE HAD IN FRONT OF P AND Z GIVEN WE'RE HERE FOR THE THIRD TIME, UH, WE WERE ASKED NOT TO CONTINUE ANY OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS UNTIL WE HAD SOMETHING SOLID THAT WE COULD TAKE TO THE SCHOOL TO BE ACTIONABLE. AND SO IF WE DO, IF WE ARE SUCCESSFUL IN, IN GAINING Y'ALL'S APPROVAL TONIGHT ON THE PUD, WE'LL IMMEDIATELY BEGIN ENGAGING WITH THE SCHOOL. UM, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN EXISTING 12 [02:55:01] FOOT WIDE ACCESS EASEMENT THROUGH THE SCHOOL'S PROPERTY. UM, THAT WAS GRANTED EARLY TWO THOUSANDS LONG BEFORE THE SCHOOL WAS THERE. AND OUR INTENTION IS TO, TO FOLLOW THAT ALIGNMENT AND CONNECT TO THEIR EXISTING, UH, EMERGENCY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS ACTUALLY A LARGE HAMMERHEAD NEAR THE BACK OF THE SCHOOL. UH, BUT WE ECHO THE SAME CONCERNS THAT MR. GUERRERO, UH, HAS ABOUT SCHOOL SAFETY AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THAT'S WHY THAT, THAT THAT ACCESS WOULD ONLY BE EMERGENCY ACCESS. IT WOULD BE A GATED WITH A KNOX BOX THAT ONLY THE, THE EMERGENCY SERVICES COULD ACCESS. SO WHO AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT DID YOU MEET WITH A YEAR AGO? I'D HAVE TO GET MY NOTES TO TELL YOU WHO IT WAS. UH, MET WITH THEIR ENGINEERS, UM, AND, UH, SOMEBODY FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT'S OFFICE THERE AT THE, UH, THE ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING. MR. GROWER, WHAT POSITION DO YOU HOLD WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT? WOULD YOU COME BACK HERE PLEASE? I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS AND I DID NOT HAVE A MEETING WITH, WITH, UH, WITH OUR ENGINEERS OR ANYBODY FROM THE SUPERINTENDENT'S OFFICE. IS IT POSSIBLE HE COULD HAVE MET? I MEAN, WE'RE GETTING TWO DIFFERENT STORIES HERE, WHICH, WHICH TROUBLES ME. THAT COULD, THAT COULD BE POSSIBLE. I, I, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT IT'S NOT POSSIBLE. I, I GUESS, I GUESS FOR, FOR US, WE'RE HERE TODAY JUST MUCH OF, OF HOW, UH, UH, I'VE, I'VE BEEN AT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ALREADY FOR THREE YEARS AND, UH, WE, THE FIRST TIME THIS CAME UP WAS FOR US, WAS IN, UH, I BELIEVE IT WAS JUNE 2ND WHEN WE MET HERE. SURE. AND, UH, SO, UH, LIKE I SAID, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE SAYING WE'RE WE'RE NOT GONNA APPROVE IT, WE'RE, IT, IT'D BE, IT'D BE OKAY FOR US TO SEE THESE THINGS TO, TO, YOU KNOW, JUST LET US KNOW. LET US ON OUR END, WE CAN ONLY SEE THE PHYSICAL PART OF IT. OUR BOARD OF TRUSTEES, THEY HAVE A UNIQUE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS TO WHERE IT, IT IS SOLELY BASED ON THE PROTECTION OF OUR STUDENTS AND OUR STAFF AND ALSO OUR COMMUNITY. SO, UH, WHETHER THEY, WHETHER HE MET WITH SOMEONE ELSE, I'M NOT SURE IF HE DID OR, OR THAT, THAT I, I DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION. BUT WHAT I DO HAVE IS THAT IT'S TODAY AND, AND WE, WE WOULD LOVE TO, TO, TO, TO MEET, UH, FOR INFORMATION. IT'S, IT'S, I'M NOT SURE, UH, THE COST OR WHATEVER IT IS. WE, WE DON'T CHARGE TO MEET. AND, UH, WE, UH, WE, AGAIN, IT HAS A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS ON OUR FAST GROWING SCHOOL. WE HAVE, THIS SCHOOL IS, IS ACTUALLY VERY, VERY QUICKLY, UH, FILLING UP. WE HAVE, WE'RE, WE'RE AT CAPACITY. WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S GOING TO AFFECT A LOT OF OUR KIDS AND, AND LIKE ANY OTHER SCHOOL, WE, WE, UH, WE TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY. AND, UM, AGAIN, THERE'S NO, IF, IF, IF HE MET WITH SOMEONE ELSE THAT THAT'S FINE. BUT NOW IT'S, TODAY WE HAVE A SUPERINTENDENT, I ASKED HER TODAY, SHE HAS NOT HAD ANY COMMUNICATIONS. UH, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE I'VE BEEN THERE THREE YEARS AND, AND UH, I HAVE NOT HEARD IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY ELSE COULD HAVE MET WITH, WITH THEM. I'M, I'M NOT SURE. OKAY. THANK YOU. UH, MR. WETZEL, MR. LOOKED HIS NOTES. THANK GOD FOR TECHNOLOGY. RIGHT. I WAS ABLE TO LOOK IT UP REAL QUICK. UH, WE, WE COMMUNICATED WITH, UH, WITH MS. KRAFT, UH, AND SHE CONNECTED US WITH MARK STAHL AT BERNIE ISD, UH, WHO THEN COORDINATED A MEETING IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR. I DON'T HAVE THAT EXACT DATE, BUT I CAN GET IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. UM, ANYONE ELSE WANNA SPEAK, UH, DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS ITEM? PLEASE COME FORWARD IF NOT. YES. YES MA'AM. PLEASE COME FORWARD. STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD PLEASE. SO MY NAME IS AARON GRAVES, VETE 1 1 2 HAMPTON WAY. UM, I DIDN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING PREPARED. I, YOU KNOW, I WASN'T PLANNING ON SAYING ANYTHING. UM, I JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT AS SPEAKING FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, I THINK WE REALLY LIKED THE IDEA OF THAT FIVE FOOT NON-ACCESS EASEMENT. I THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA. ON PAPER, THIS LOOKS WONDERFUL AND I THINK THAT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. IT JUST KIND OF SEEMS LIKE THERE'S STILL SO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS INVOLVING BISD, WHICH IS SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S MANY CONCERNS ON THAT END. SO I'M JUST HERE TO VOICE THAT. WE'RE STILL VERY CONCERNED THAT HAMPTON WAY WILL STILL BE PULLED INTO THE END RESULT OF, YOU KNOW, THIS KIND OF, UH, DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY'RE WANTING. SO THAT'S REALLY IT. I THINK WE'RE JUST STILL KIND OF CONCERNED. WE REALLY LIKE THAT FIVE FOOT ACCESS THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A MIDDLE GROUND FOR US. UM, I THINK IF WE END UP BEING A GATED EMERGENCY ACCESS, I FEEL LIKE DOWN THE LINE THAT COULD BE ABUSED OR, YOU KNOW, WHOEVER [03:00:01] ENDS UP OWNING THAT PROPERTY DOWN THE LINE CAN COME BACK AND SAY LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD HELP US IN THE LONG RUN. LET'S OPEN THIS GATE TO ALLOW MORE ACCESS. I JUST FEEL LIKE IT KIND OF, IT'S TOO MUCH OF A GRAY AREA FOR US TO APPROVE THAT RIGHT NOW. SO ON PAPER I THINK WE REALLY LIKE THIS, BUT I JUST FEEL LIKE THERE'S STILL SO MUCH OF A CONVERSATION THERE TO HAVE. SO THAT'S REALLY IT. OKAY, THANK YOU MS. GRACE FOR SPEAKING UP. MR. MUNOZ, ARE YOU STILL THE HOA PRESIDENT? YES. OKAY. WELL COME FORWARD. UM, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON BEHALF OF YOUR ASSOCIATION? WELCOME, UH, HERE WE ARE AGAIN, RIGHT? UM, TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THINGS BUT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. SO, UM, MY OPINION WITH THE NEW DRAFT IS REALLY AWESOME BECAUSE IT TAKES US OUTTA THE EQUATION, WHICH IS WHAT WE NEED FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOOD TO STAY HEALTHY AND TO THRIVE. HOWEVER, WITH US COMING UP HERE AGAIN, AND I WAS HOPING THAT THIS WOULD GO SMOOTH, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE AGAIN. THEY STILL HAVEN'T TALKED TO BERNIE ISD. THEY WERE HOPING TO GET APPROVAL FIRST AND THEN THEY'LL CHASE THAT IDEA. I DON'T LIKE THE WAY THAT IT'S NOT BEING STRUCTURED AND IT'S NOT YOU GUYS, IT'S THE PLANNING THAT'S GOING ON IN THE BACKGROUND. WE'VE HAD BERNIE ISD HERE TWICE AND BOTH TIMES THEY'RE LIKE, WE HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING FROM ANYBODY. NOBODY HAS CONSULTED US. THERE WAS ONE INITIAL CONVERSATION ABOUT IT AND THEN THAT WAS IT. BUT THEY STILL DON'T HAVE A RESOLUTION, BUT ON HOW THEY PLAN ON MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS AND NO COMMITMENTS FROM BERNIE, ISD. SO AGAIN, EVERYTHING IS RIGHT BACK UP IN THE AIR AND IT MAKES ME NERVOUS BECAUSE I THOUGHT TONIGHT WE'RE LIKE, WE'RE FINALLY GONNA HAVE A SOLUTION. BUT WE DON'T HAVE A REAL ONE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY COMMITMENT AND I DON'T LIKE THAT. I DON'T, I DON'T OPERATE LIKE THAT. I'M VERY STRUCTURED AND THIS IS FALLING APART. OKAY, WELL THANK YOU FOR THOSE THOUGHTS. ANYONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO COME FORWARD DURING THE PUBLIC HEARING YOU SPEAK? YES MA'AM. BRENDA ALEXANDER AND ADDRESS IS 2 2 6 HAMPTON RUN WEST ALSO ON THE HOA BOARD. AND I JUST WANTED TO AGAIN, UM, YOU KNOW, CONFIRM EVERYTHING THAT ERIC SAID THAT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD CAN'T HANDLE THAT TRAFFIC AND I APPRECIATE Y'ALL, YOU KNOW, IT BEING WITHDRAWN AND THEN PUTTING THAT FIVE FOOT EASEMENT FOR US. BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT NO MATTER WHAT, THEY CAN'T COME BACK AND CHANGE THAT EASEMENT OR CHANGE THEIR PLANS AFTER IT'S ALREADY ZONED SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THAT ACCESS POINT AT ANY TIME. SO THAT'S OUR MAIN CONCERN. OKAY. THANK YOU MS. ALEXANDER. ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT THEN AT THIS POINT I'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MOVE TO COMMISSION DISCUSSION. ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSIONERS, MR. KELLER? SURE. UM, I APPRECIATE THE WILLINGNESS TO CONSIDER THE PUD AND COME BACK AFTER, LIKE YOU SAID, YOUR THIRD TIME, UH, THE APPLICANT TO DO THIS. AS MR. MUNOZ STATED, THE QUESTION STILL REMAINS ABOUT ACCESS THOUGH, IN MY OPINION. UM, AND I, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS OF THIS, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT'S LOGICAL TO HAVE THAT COMMITMENT FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT PRIOR TO MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS. I KNOW THAT THIS WOULD ALL BE REMOVED IF THEY DON'T GET THAT, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THAT SHOULD BE WORKING IN CONJUNCTION WITH OR HASHED OUT PRIOR TO. UM, THE OTHER THING THAT I, YOU KNOW, I, I KEEP GOING BACK TO WITH THIS AND I'M NOT SURE AS OUR COMMISSION WHAT OUR ROLE IS, BUT IT'S ODD TO ME GETTING A, A NOTE OR A LETTER FROM THE DEVELOPER THAT SOLD THEM THE PROPERTY STATING THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO USE THAT ROADWAY WHEN THEY'RE SAYING THAT THEY DO HAVE ACCESS TO USE THAT ROADWAY IS SOMEWHAT CONCERNING. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT OUR ROLE IS IN ANALYZING THAT, BUT LEGALLY SPEAKING, BUT IT BECOMES A CONCERN FOR ME AS WELL. UM, AND I OF COURSE HAD THE QUESTION ABOUT WHERE THOSE DISCUSSIONS WERE CURRENTLY AT WITH BERNIE, ISD. AND THEN IF THIS WERE TO BE APPROVED TONIGHT, I WOULD SAY THAT I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER BULLET POINT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDED, WHICH IS, UH, THAT'S BEEN MENTIONED, BUT THAT THEY WILL PRODUCE THAT EASEMENT THAT SHOWS THEIR LEGAL USE OF IT SHOULD BE ADDED TO THAT IF IT DOES GET APPROVED. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE? NO, SIR. ALRIGHT. APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY COMMENTS? MR. FRIAR? I'M GONNA ASK MY QUESTION AGAIN. , I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IF THESE STIPULATIONS CAN'T BE MET. I'LL TRY TO ANSWER [03:05:01] IT. IF THE PLANNING UNIT DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT GO FORWARD AS APPROVED, THEN THE ZONING ON THE PROPERTY REMAINS THE UNDERLYING ZONING, WHATEVER THAT IS, UH, THAT DOESN'T CHANGE, BUT THE ZONING WILL BE THE PUD WELL, THERE, WHEN THERE'S A PUD THERE'S ALWAYS STILL UNDERLYING ZONING ON THE PROPERTY. SO DO WE KNOW WHAT THAT IS? THE ORIGINAL PRO ZONING ON THE PROPERTY BEFORE THE P'S CREATED? SO WHAT IS THE CURRENT ZONING ON THIS PARCEL? IT HAS NOT BEEN ANNEXED YET. SO ZONING HAS NOT BEEN ASSIGNED. IT WOULD BE A HOLDING ZONE. OH, OKAY. OH, IT'S, SO THEY'VE GOTTA BE ANNEXED FIRST. SO THIS IS ANOTHER ONE OF THESE DEALS WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO PUT SOMETHING ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY BEFORE WE ACTUALLY HAVE IT WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS. WELL, IF YOU RECALL, THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO YOUR CONCERNS RELATED TO SPENCER RANCH. RIGHT. AND WANTING TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION FIRST BEFORE ANNEXATION AND PROPERTY. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S BEFORE YOU TODAY. EXACTLY. APPRECIATE THAT. THAT'S GOOD. ACTUALLY, I THINK THE ORDER OF THINGS IS IMPORTANT. UM, WE WANNA BE SURE WE GET THE ORDER CORRECT. MR. FRIAR, DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? COULD I, COULD I ADD SOMETHING, MR. OH YES, MR. MCKINNEY. WELL, THERE'S NOTHING TO KEEP YOU AS PART OF YOUR DISCUSSIONS ON THIS, TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THE UNDERLYING ZONING SHOULD BE. IF IT WERE ANNEXED AS WELL, THAT WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN AT SOME POINT. OKAY. CAN WE DO THAT TONIGHT? EVEN THOUGH IT HASN'T BEEN POSTED THAT WAY? I'D SUGGEST YOU DO IT AT SOME FUTURE DATE. OKAY. BUT IN CONJUNCTION. BUT YOU HAVE TIME TO DO THAT BEFORE? YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO ONE OTHER, ONE OTHER CLARIFYING QUESTION ON THE DRAFT SCHEMATIC. IT SHOWS ONLY 23 LOTS, BUT LOTS THREE AND 17 AREN'T BUILDABLE 'CAUSE THEY'RE IN THE DPZ, BUT THERE'S 29 DUPLEX UNITS. SO HOW ARE WE GETTING THAT MANY UNITS ON THESE LOTS? I UNFORTUNATELY COULDN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION ONLY TO SAY THAT AGAIN, THIS IS PURELY A DRAFT PROPOSAL AT THIS TIME FOR CONCEPTUAL PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT INTENDED TO PROVIDE ANY SPECIFICS BEYOND HELPING YOU INTERPRET THE PUD BEFORE YOU THIS EVENING. OKAY. COMMISSIONER HOLLER. WELL, I THINK SOME OF THE, ONE OF THE LOTS IS COMMUNITY SPACE, RIGHT? AND THERE'S SOUTH. OH YEAH. SO THERE'S THREE AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT'S COMMUNITY SPACE. SO THERE'S FOUR LOTS WHERE, SO THERE WOULD NOT BE ANY DEVELOPMENT THERE. SO HOW ARE THEY GETTING 29 UNITS ON? THERE IS MY QUESTION. MR. WHISTLE. WE'VE GOT A QUESTION THAT MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER. YES, THERE'S A CERTAIN NUMBER OF LOTS. LOT NUMBER ONE IS, UH, COMMUNITY SPACE LOT. THAT'S WHERE WE INTEND TO MOVE THAT. UH, HISTORIC HOME LOT 10 IS ALSO COMMUNITY SPACE. AND UH, THEN ANYTHING WITHIN THE DPZ WOULD NOT BE BUILT. AND BEING A DRAFT, WE'VE GOT A NUMBERING ERROR. YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE LOTS ONE AND TWO OVER HERE, UM, AND LOTS ONE HERE. BUT THAT MAY ALSO VERY WELL BE BASED ON THE FACT THAT THIS HAS A LOT AND BLOCK LAYOUT, UH, AS WAS REQUIRED. UM, AND I KNOW WE GOT SOME COMMENTS VERY LATE RIGHT UP ON THE DEADLINE AND WE ONLY HAD A FEW HOURS TO ADDRESS 'EM. SO THERE MAY VERY WELL BE A COUPLE SCRIBNER ERRORS, UH, IN SOME OF OUR NUMBERING AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, BUT THE INTENTION IS TO STAY UNDER THAT 30 LOTS FOR FIRE, UH, AND EMERGENCY ACCESS REASONS. SO DOES 29 DUPLEX UNITS MEAN 29 LIVABLE DWELLINGS OR IS THAT NO, MA'AM. 29 MA'AM. 29 LOTS. UM, WHAT WE'RE GONNA END UP WITH IS APPROXIMATELY 14 STRUCTURES, WHICH IS ABOUT 28 LIVING UNITS. LIVING UNITS. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? COMMISSIONER FERAR, ONE OTHER THING. UM, CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT THE ACTUAL LEGAL VEHICLE IS THAT IF THIS WAS APPROVED, THAT THAT ACCESS EASEMENT TO HAMPTON WAY CANNOT BE OPENED? WHAT, WHAT IS THE LEGAL VEHICLE? WE, WE WOULD FILE A NON-ACCESS EASEMENT WITH THE COUNTY CLERK PRIOR TO SUBMITTING THE PLAT. SO WHEN WE SUBMIT THE PLAT, IT WOULD SHOW THAT EASEMENT AS RECORDED WITH A RECORDING NUMBER. AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION PURPOSES, HAMPTON WAY NEIGHBORHOOD AS THE BENEFICIARY OF THE EASEMENT COULD ENFORCE THAT ONCE IT'S RECORDED. OKAY. SO WE WOULDN'T APPROVE THE PLATEAU THAT WAS DONE. AND THAT'S, THAT WAS OUR PROPOSAL. COMMISSIONER FRIAR, IS THAT WE WOULD NOT BRING THE PLAT BACK WITHOUT [03:10:01] HAVING THAT NON-ACCESS EASEMENT RECORDED. OKAY. PERFECT. THANK YOU. AND COMMISSIONER KELLER, TO ADDRESS YOUR ISSUE ON THE ACCESS EASEMENT, WE PROVIDED THAT ACCESS EASEMENT, UH, RECORDED COPY TO THE CITY. UM, AND IT IS A PERPETUAL ACCESS EASEMENT. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER? HOTTER QUESTION. UM, IT WAS PRESENTED TO US TONIGHT THAT THESE ARE INDIVIDUALLY OWNED AND WOULD ACCOMMODATE FHA AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING. HOW DO, HOW DO WE ALREADY DETERMINE THAT AT THIS STAGE OF THE DEVELOPMENT, THEY WOULD BE INDIVIDUALLY PLATTED UNITS WITH A PARTY WALL SIMILAR TO A TOWN HOME OR DUPLEX. THEY'D BE ATTACHED. IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'LL BE AFFORDABLE. AFFORDABLE IS A RELATIVE TERM. RELATIVE TERM. YES SIR. JUST CHECKING. ALRIGHT. AND ONE COMMENT. THERE WAS SOMETHING I WAS MISSING. . YEAH. MIGHT BE THE FIRST IN BERNIE. I'M NOT SURE THIS VEHICLE, THERE'S RECENT. OKAY, THANK YOU. I DO HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION IN YOUR SCHEMATIC, AND I REALIZE IT'S JUST PRELIMINARY, BUT IT SHOWS A THREE STORY STRUCTURE. YES. WOULD, I GUESS THE ZONING THAT IS ATTACHED WOULD DETERMINE THE HEIGHT WE ARE BELOW THE HEIGHT, UH, LIMIT OF THE ZONING AND THE ZONING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. THE UNDER UNDERLYING THAT WE'D BE COMING BACK FOR IS THE R 3D, SAME AS LAST TIME, BUT THIS TIME WITH THE PUD TO ELIMINATE THAT SECOND ACCESS POINT, UM, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO THE R 3D WOULD EVENTUALLY BE OUR INTENTION TO BE THE UNDERLYING ZONING. OKAY. AND, AND GIVEN SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT UNANSWERED QUESTIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I, I MAY NOT HAVE MADE THIS CLEAR. UM, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF, UH, EXPENSE IN DESIGN AND ANSWERING SOME OF THESE ACCESS QUESTIONS, ENGAGING WITH BERNIE ISD, GETTING THAT EASEMENT SURVEYED, DOCUMENTED, UH, TO A POINT THAT'S FILEABLE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ALL OF THOSE THINGS IN THE STANDARD ORDER, THE WAY WE DO MOST OF THESE THINGS, WHEN, WHEN, WHEN WE APPROACH A PROJECT, THOSE ALL COME AFTER WE HAVE THE ZONING APPROVED BECAUSE THE ZONING IS GONNA INFORM WHAT WE CAN AND CANNOT DO ON THE PROPERTY. AND SO ENGAGING WITH BERNIE ISD AND SPENDING A WHOLE LOT OF THEIR TIME AND RESOURCES PRIOR TO HAVING AN APPROVAL ON THE ZONING AND AN IDEA OF WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA DO IS SHOOTING IN THE WIND FOR EVERYBODY. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO AHEAD. COMMISSIONER LER AND THEN COMMISSIONER SENIO. I, I THINK, UM, FOR ME, KNOWING THAT THERE'S A LOT OF WORK THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE DONE, WE, WE APPROVE THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AND THEN THAT ALLOWS FOR THERE TO BE CONFIDENT DISCUSSIONS WITH THE, WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. IT GIVES THEM MORE CONFIDENCE IN, UH, DEFINITION, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, OR, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE KIND OF APPROVED THE FIRST STEP. THERE'S ALSO LANGUAGE IN THE P THAT STATES THAT IF ALL THESE STIPULATIONS AREN'T MET, THEN IT GOES AWAY. UM, SO, AND ONE OF THOSE BEING ACCESS TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. SO MY LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE IS FAIRLY HIGH THAT THE NEXT TIME WE SEE THIS WILL BE, UM, AN ACTUAL PLAT THAT SHOWS THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT AND DEVELOPER HAVE COME TO AN AGREEMENT. HERE'S THE EXACT ACCESS, UM, HERE'S THE CLEANED UP VERSION OF LOTS. HERE'S REALLY WHAT EVERYTHING IS LOOKING LIKE. UM, WITH MORE CERTAINTY THERE'S HIGH, HIGH, LIKE, HIGH LIKELIHOOD THAT THOSE CONVERSATIONS DON'T COME TOGETHER WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. AND THEN THIS GOES AWAY AS IF WE HAD NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE. CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. CITY STAFF, ANYBODY. IF I, IF I'M MISSING SOMETHING, I THINK THAT PRETTY WELL SUMMARIZES THE OPINION THAT MR. MCCAIN HAS GIVEN US. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. COMMISSIONER SENIO, I WAS JUST GONNA ADD THAT IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THE BIG STICKLER LAST TIME WAS THE ACCESS THROUGH HAMPTON PLACE. AND I THINK THEY'VE ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED THAT THAT'S NOT IN THEIR PLANS. UH, THE OTHER ONE WAS SHOW US A PLAN WHERE YOU CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN WITH ONE ACCESS POINT. RIGHT. AND I THINK THEY'VE COME BACK WITH THAT. UM, SO TO COMMISSIONER HIGHLAND'S POINT, I, I THINK THAT THEY'VE MET WHAT WE ASKED FOR FROM LAST TIME AND NOW WE'RE JUST SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE APPROVING YOU TO CONTINUE YOUR EX UH, EXPIRATION OF THIS PROJECT. CORRECT. ANYTHING ELSE, MR. KATES? UH, FIRST I WANNA THANK YOU GUYS FOR, YOU HAVE PUT A LOT OF WORK IN THIS AND I DO FEEL LIKE YOU'VE ADDRESSED THE CONCERNS OF NOT ONLY THIS COMMISSION BUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND SO THANK YOU. UH, I DO WANT, UH, CLARIFICATION, UM, FOR A PUD, DOES THE ZONING HAVE TO MATCH THE, THE PUD USE? UH, IN OTHER WORDS, WOULD IT HAVE TO BE, UH, R 3D FOR [03:15:01] THEM TO BE ABLE TO BUILD DUPLEXES UNDER A PUD? NOT NECESSARILY. IT, IT SHOULD BE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COMPLETELY MATCH IT, NO, BECAUSE THE PUD IS MORE FLEXIBLE THAN THE PERMITTED USES UNDER THE ZONING UNDERLYING ZONING. I THINK ALL OF OUR CONCERNS WOULD BE IF THIS, IF THEY DIDN'T GET THE DEAL WITH THE SCHOOL, IF THIS WENT AWAY, NOW WE'VE GOT, UH, DUPLEX ZONING ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY WITH NO PUD, UH, I THINK THAT'S ONE REASON TO STIPULATION OF THAT FIVE FOOT EASEMENT BE FILED BEFORE ANYTHING HAPPENS BECAUSE THAT PUTS A PROTECTION THERE REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS. THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT, UH, A NEW BUYER COULDN'T COME IN THERE AND CHANGE THAT. AM I CORRECT ON THAT? UH, ATTORNEYS, YES. OKAY. YES. AND I, THAT'S WHY UPON BEFORE ANNEXATION, THE UNDERLYING ZONING SHOULD BE DECIDED WHAT IT SHOULD BE OR AT SOME POINT, BUT I, IT ALSO THE, UH, THAT THAT FIVE FOOT EASEMENT NEEDS TO BE FILED IN GOOD FAITH TOO, SO THAT IF THIS DIDN'T COME TOGETHER, SOME WOULDN'T COME, COULDN'T COME IN THERE AND, AND THEY'VE ALREADY GOT THE ZONING NOW AND OPEN THIS THING UP. SO THAT WOULD BE MY CONCERN IF THAT I DON'T, DO YOU THINK YOU, YOUR GROUP WOULD, HAD HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT? NO, SIR. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO THAT. UH, COMMISSIONER KATES. AND WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS, IS, IS GETTING ALL THOSE QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND BECAUSE UNWINDING AND ANNEXATION IS QUITE INVOLVED AND HAS SOME ADDITIONAL STIPULATIONS AROUND IT, WE, WE WANT TO GET ALL THOSE QUESTIONS ANSWERED BEFORE WE ACTUALLY ANNEX. AND SO BEFORE WE GO AND FILE THAT EASEMENT, BEFORE WE GET ANNEXATION, WE ARE GONNA ANSWER ALL THESE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP BY THE PUBLIC, BY THE COMMISSION, AND BY STAFF. UM, THAT WE, WE, WE KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK AHEAD OF US, BUT GETTING THE APPROVAL ON, ON THE PUD GIVES THE, GIVES THE OWNER, MR. SPINELLI, WHO COULDN'T BE WITH US TONIGHT. UM, A IT'S A LESS RISKY MOVE TO MOVE FORWARD INTO DESIGN AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS AND, AND ENGAGING WITH BISD AND THINGS LIKE THAT, RATHER THAN SAYING, OKAY, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A ZONING APPROVED. LET'S GO TALK TO BISD, LET'S GO DESIGN THIS ROAD, LET'S GO DESIGN THIS BRIDGE. THAT'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF EXPENSE THAT COULD JUST DISAPPEAR. WELL, I, UH, AGAIN, I APPLAUD YOU GUYS. I THINK YOU'VE DONE A GREAT JOB OF, UH, TRYING TO SATISFY ALL PARTIES CONCERNED. I KNOW YOU'VE GOT YOUR WORK CUT OUT FOR YOU WITH ALL THE NEGOTIATIONS, BUT MY ONLY, UH, I'M VERY MUCH IN, UH, UH, SUPPORT OF THIS WITH A STIPULATION THAT THAT FIVE FOOT EASEMENT BE, UH, FILED AND, AND, AND THAT'D BE PROTECTED IN PERPETUITY IN CASE THE PUD GOES AWAY. THE HAMPTONS ARE PROTECTED. ALRIGHT. SO THAT WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL STIPULATION THAT THE FIVE FOOT NON-ACCESS EASEMENT BE RECORDED IN ORDER FOR THE PUD TO BE EFFECTIVE. YES, SIR. MR. KELLER, YOU HAD ANOTHER STIPULATION. I THOUGHT HE, HE KIND OF ADDRESSED IT, BUT IT WAS JUST PROVIDING THAT EASEMENT THAT THEY DO IN FACT HAVE ACCESS. OKAY. THE PROOF OF THE ACCESS, CORRECT. BUT HE, HE SAID HE'S PROVIDED THAT, UM, IT'S JUST ODD THAT WHATEVER THIS LETTER IS FROM THE ORIGINAL MICHAEL SCHO BRUN THAT SAYS WE, WE OFFERED THEM A MILLION DOLLARS TO GIVE US A SECOND POINT OF ACCESS AND THEY SAID THEY WEREN'T INTERESTED. WOW. SO THEY, THEY, THEY HAVE ZERO INTEREST. THEY'RE, THEY'RE A DEVELOPER, UH, PROPERTY OWNER, ASSET MANAGER OUTTA SAN ANTONIO AND WE HAD MULTIPLE DISCUSSIONS AND THEY WENT, THEY WENT NOWHERE. SO, AND THAT'S AC IT'S ACTUALLY A RECIPROCAL ACCESS EASEMENT. UM, AND AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, WE HAVE PROVIDED THAT TO, OKAY, LEMME ASK THIS QUESTION, MS. OK. HAVE YOU REVIEWED THEIR ACCESS EASEMENT DOWN THIS, THIS PRIVATE ROAD? NO SIR. IT MIGHT BE WISE TO HAVE ANOTHER STIPULATION THAT SAYS THAT IN THE, IN THE OPINION OF THE CITY ATTORNEY, UH, THEY HAVE THAT. RIGHT. UM, I'M SURE YOU WOULDN'T DISAGREE WITH THAT. YOU, YOU SAY YOU'VE GOT IT ANYWAY. SO I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE AN INDEPENDENT LEGAL MIND OF MR. MCKINNEY'S, UH, STATURE REVIEW THAT SO THAT WE'RE SURE THAT THEY'VE GOT IT. YEAH. 'CAUSE I MEAN, 'CAUSE WE'RE VERY RELUCTANT AS A BODY TO GIVE THESE THINGS WITHOUT THESE CONDITIONS ALREADY HAVING BEEN MET. I GET IT. AND IT'S MONEY TO YOU. I GET THAT ALSO, BUT, UH, TO DO THESE THINGS AHEAD OF TIME, BUT YOU KNOW, WE WANNA BE CAREFUL TO PROTECT THE CITIZENS OF BERNIE HAMPTON WAY. UM, AND SO I'D SUGGEST WE MAKE THAT A STIPULATION NUMBER NINE, THAT THE PROOF BE PROVIDED TO THE CITY ATTORNEY WHO THEN AGREES THAT IN FACT THEY DO HAVE THAT RIGHT TO USE THAT ROAD. WE WOULD WELCOME THAT RUBY REVIEW. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, THAT'D BE NINE STIPULATIONS THEN AS OPPOSED TO SEVEN. ARE THERE ANY OTHERS? OKAY. IS THERE A MOTION THEN? UM, WITH RESPECT TO THIS ITEM, I GOT A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER KATES, UH, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BYRD AND COMMISSIONER KATES TO CONFIRM YOUR MOTION IS TO, UM, MOVE THAT [03:20:01] THE PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION ACCEPT THE FINDINGS AND RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT PUD FOR 6.46 ACRE TRACT OF LAND LOCATED 7 2 7 8 JOHNS ROAD, SUBJECT TO THE NINE STIPULATIONS. NOW SEVEN STIPULATIONS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF. THE TWO STIPULATIONS RECOMMENDED BY THE P AND Z, WHICH IS THE FIVE FOOT NINE ACCESS EASEMENT MUST BE RECORDED AND THERE MUST BE PROOF SUFFICIENT TO SATISFY MR. MCCAMEY THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THAT 25 FOOT WIDE PRIVATE ROAD DOWN FROM JOHN'S ROAD. OH, COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER. UH, YOU PROBABLY COULD HAVE, BUT IT'S GETTING LATE SO WHO KNOWS WHAT I WOULD SAY. ALRIGHT, SO WE GOT A MOTION TO SECOND ALL JUST VOTE ACCORDING TO YOUR PREFERENCE AND WE'LL REVIEW THE RESULTS. OKAY. PASSED UNANIMOUSLY. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY YOU'VE GOTTA GET TOGETHER THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. YOU GUYS NEED TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE. UM, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GO VISIT WITH MR. GUERRERO THIS EVENING, GET HIS NUMBER AND CALL HIM TOMORROW MORNING. OKAY. MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ITEM. [C. CONSIDER A REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO CHAPTER 2.11.10(A), LEFT TURN LANES, OF THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 109 AMMANN ROAD (KCAD 310823 AND 11864).] ITEM FIVE C IS TO CONSIDER REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO CHAPTER 2.1 10 SUBSECTION, A LEFT TURN LANES OF THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1 0 9 AMMOND ROAD. AND MR. MR. CARROLL BACK BEFORE US AGAIN. EVENING AGAIN. GOOD EVENING. SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS PROPERTY, SEVERAL, I CAN'T REMEMBER HOW FAR BACK TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, SEVERAL MONTHS BACK. UM, SO IT'S A PROPERTY OUT ON AMMAN ROAD. UH, IT'S JUST OUT JUST ON THE EDGE OF THE ETJ. IF YOU CAN SEE THE LINE. THE RED IS THE ETJ LIMITS. SO THE YELLOW AREA IS THE CITY LIMITS LINE. SO IT'S AMMAN ROAD, JUST EAST OF RIVER ROAD, HIGHWAY 46. SO IT'S IN THE ETJ, BUT IT IS OUTSIDE OUR CITY LIMITS. UM, AND IT'S ACTUALLY WITHIN THE FIVE MILE OF CAMP BULLIS AREA. SO IT'S ONE OF THOSE BY STATE LAW. THEY ARE NOT ELIGIBLE TO BE, BE RE REMOVED THEMSELVES FROM OUR ETJ. UM, IT'S AN UNDEVELOPED SITE. UM, OUT THERE, THE BRIDGE, BERNIE IS THE OWNER. IT'S ABOUT 18 ACRES. THERE'S A COUPLE DIFFERENT PARCELS. IT IS OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS, SO IT HAS NO ZONING. IT'S A VACANT AND THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO A CHURCH THERE. IT WOULD ACCESS AMMAN ROAD, WHICH AMMAN ROAD IS A COUNTY MAINTAINED ROAD. IT IS NOT CITY MAINTAINED. AGAIN, AGAIN OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS. THAT'S POSTED AT 45 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT. IT'S A RURAL STREET SECTION, SO THAT MEANS IT DOESN'T, YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURE, IT DOESN'T HAVE CURBS. DOESN'T HAVE SIDEWALKS. UM, IT IS A STREET THAT IS IDENTIFIED ON BOTH THE CITY AND THE COUNTY'S MAJOR THOROUGHFARE PLANS. IT'S APPROXIMATELY 22 FOOT WIDE, UM, TYPICAL VEHICLES PER DAY ON. AGAIN, IT'S NOT IN CITY LIMITS, SO WE DON'T COUNT IT. I MENTIONED EARLIER WE HAVE OUR ANNUAL COUNTING PROGRAM. WE DON'T COUNT IT, IT'S NOT IN CITY LIMITS. TECH STOP DID COUNT IT SEVERAL YEARS BACK AND ON A TUESDAY AND IT HAD 1900 CARS PER DAY. AND AS PART OF THE APPLICANT'S TIA, THEY COUNTED IT, UH, BACK IN FEBRUARY. AND IT HAD ABOUT JUST SHY OF 1800, UH, CARS PER DAY ON THAT SUNDAY. AGAIN, 900, THEY WERE ABLE TO BREAK IT DOWN EASTBOUND AND WESTBOUND. SO KIND OF AN EQUAL MIX EASTBOUND AND WESTBOUND ON THAT PARTICULAR SUNDAY. UM, AS MENTIONED, IT'S ON THE CITY AND THE COUNTY THOROUGHFARE PLANS. YOU CAN SEE THE LITTLE STARS AS THE APPROXIMATE SITE. SO ON THE CITY'S MAJOR THOROUGHFARE PLAN THAT WAS UPDATED A COUPLE YEARS AGO, IT IS A COLLECTOR ROAD. AND ON THE COUNTY'S MAJOR THOROUGHFARE PLAN, UM, THE COUNTY ACTUALLY DOES HAVE A HANDFUL OF ROADS THAT ARE CLASSIFIED AS MAJOR COLLECTORS. AND EMON ROAD IS ONE OF THOSE. UM, SO AGAIN, ON BOTH CITY AND COUNTY MAJOR THOROUGHFARE PLANS IN THE APPLICANT'S TIA, UM, THEY'RE PROPOSING APPROXIMATELY 54,000 SQUARE FOOT CHURCH. UM, THE SUNDAY IS THE PEAK TRAVEL DAY FOR CHURCHES, UM, IN OUR TRAFFIC STUDY. UM, SO THAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT 559 TOTAL CARS IN THE PEAK HOUR. AND THAT'S BROKEN UP CLOSE TO 50, 52, 69 IN 2 91 OUT. UM, BECAUSE THE PARTICULAR LOCATION OF THE SITE, UM, THEY PROVIDED THEIR, UH, PROJECTED TRIP DISTRIBUTION. AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PICTURE. UM, STAFF KIND OF AGREED WITH, OBVIOUSLY IT'S EAST OF BERNIE, SO THEY'RE SAYING THAT 95% OF THE TRAFFIC IS GONNA BE COMING FROM BERNIE TO THE CHURCH AND 5% WOULD BE KIND OF COMING THE BACK ROADS FROM FAIR OAKS ON AMMOND ROAD. UH, THAT SEEMED, UH, TO MAKE SENSE WITH US. AND SO THEN YOU LOOK AT THAT 269 IN AND 291 OUT USING THOSE TRIP DISTRIBUTIONS AND IT COMES INTO THESE PROPOSED TRAFFIC VOLUMES. SO IT'D BE 256 AND THIS IS IN THE PEAK HOUR. IT'D BE 256 CARS MAKING A RIGHT TURN IN AND 13 VEHICLES MAKING A LEFT TURN IN. AND THAT PEAK HOUR AND THEN THE, THE OUTS 2 76 AND 15. UH, WE AS THE CITY HAT, WE, WE PAY ATTENTION MORE TO THE ENDS THAN THE OUTS 'CAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT THE IMPACT OF THE PUBLIC ROADWAY ITSELF. SO JUST SOME QUICK BACKGROUND ON CITY CODE AND THOROUGHFARE PLANS. UM, IF YOU MENTIONED THIS TONIGHT EARLIER TOO, BUT THE, IN 2019 WE HAD THE KENDALL COUNTY, BERNIE FAIR OAKS TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE, UM, THAT A COUPLE OF YOU WERE A PART OF. UM, IN 21, BASICALLY THE [03:25:01] ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL AND THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE WERE ADOPTED. UM, IN 2022, THE CITIZENS COMMITTEE ISSUED THEIR FINAL REPORT COUNTY AT CROSSROAD 2022 CITIZENS PLAN FOR TRANSPORTATION IN KENDALL COUNTY. AND AFTER THAT FINAL REPORT CAME OUT, WE ACTUALLY WENT BACK AND UPDATED SOME OF OUR ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL. AND OUR MAJOR THOROUGHFARE PLAN, UH, IS PART OF THOSE COMMENTS AND THE YEARS WORTH OF WORK THAT WE DID IN THE CITIZEN COMMITTEE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID IS WE UPDATED OUR, UH, KIND OF FOLLOWING THE WIDE NODE NARROW ROAD CONCEPT, UM, THAT WHERE A TWO LANE ROAD, A THREE LANE ROAD CAN ACTUALLY CARRY QUITE A BIT OF TRAFFIC. IT'S THE INTERSECTIONS THAT ARE CAUSING THE CONGESTION. AND SO WE UPDATED OUR STREET THOROUGHFARE PLANS. WE ACTUALLY TOOK SOME OF OUR ROADS FROM FOUR LANES AND DROPPED 'EM TO THREE LANES. UM, AND SOME OTHER TWEAKS TO OUR THOROUGHFARE PLAN TO MINIMIZE PAVEMENT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME AT INTERSECTIONS OR DRIVEWAYS TO INCREASE TURN LANES OR ON INTERSECTIONS OR AT DRIVEWAYS. SO OUR CITY CODE AS IT IS TODAY, IS LEFT TURN LANES ON OUR ARTERIALS AND COLLECTORS. LEFT TURN LANES ARE REQUIRED WHEN TURN MOVEMENTS ARE FIVE VEHICLES OR MORE. UM, SO I MENTIONED EARLIER THE, UH, TIA THEY PROVIDED HAD 13 THIRTEENS MORE THAN FIVE. SO BY OUR CODE, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO A LEFT TURN LANE. UM, OUR CODE IS A VERY SIMPLE CODE THAT THAT FIVE IS THE MAGIC NUMBER. UH, IT'S EITHER ABOVE OR LESS THAN THAT. AND THEN WHEN YOU TRIGGER THAT, THEN WE HAVE PROVIDE SOME DETAILS ON HOW THE TURN LANE IS SUPPOSED TO BE LENGTH AND DECELERATION LANE THERE. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY, UH, THE APPLICANT IS HERE TONIGHT AND WE'LL TALK A LITTLE MORE. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN LITTLE PRESENTATION. UH, CHURCHES ARE A VERY UNIQUE LAND USE. UM, SOME OF THEM ARE ONLY SOME DAYS, MOST OF THEM ARE THAT WE SEE WE, THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE, THERE ARE SATURDAYS AND THERE ARE SOME CHURCHES THAT HAVE ASPECTS OF SUNDAY SERVICES AND SCHOOLS. SUNDAY SERVICES AND SCHOOLS AND MOTHER'S DAY OUTS ARE ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT PROGRAMS. SO IT'S INTERESTING WHEN WE DO CHURCHES IN GENERAL ON WHEN THE PEAK TRAFFIC USE IS. UM, BUT MOST OF THEM ARE SUNDAYS HERE IN BURNEY. UM, SO THAT MAKES SENSE WITH WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT. AS I MENTIONED, THIS IS A COUNTY ROAD, IT'S NOT A CITY ROAD. SO THIS PLATTING PROCESS WILL REALLY BE THE ONLY TIME, UH, THAT WE SEE THIS PROJECT FROM THAT POINT ON. ALL BUILDING PERMITS AND ANY FUTURE, UH, DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE THROUGH THE COUNTY AS PART OF THEIR PERMITTING PROCESS. UM, SO REALLY I'M GONNA LET THE APPLICANT PROVIDE THEIR LITTLE PRESENTATION, BUT FOR TONIGHT, REALLY WE HAVE MOTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION THAT YOU IMPROVE THE VARIANCE TO NOT DO THE LEFT TURN LANE OR YOU DENY THE VARIANCE. BUT I'LL LET THE APPLICANT, UH, DO THEIR PRESENTATION. THANK YOU MR. CARROLL. YEP. UM, THE APPLICANT MAY COME FORWARD NOW. MR. KILLEN. HELLO. GOOD EVENING. UH, MY NAME IS ROB KILLEN. I'M AN ATTORNEY OF THE LAW FIRM OF KILLEN GRIFFIN IN FAIRMONT. OUR ADDRESS IS 1 0 1 0 1 REUNION PLACE IN SAN ANTONIO. I KNOW YOU'VE HAD A LONG E THREE CASES AND HERE WE ARE, IT'S ALMOST 10 O'CLOCK. SO I WILL TRY TO KEEP MY COMMENTS BRIEF. UH, MR. CARROLL DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF LAYING OUT, UH, THE ISSUES. WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS, IS I'M HERE, I'M JUST A LAWYER. SO WE'VE GOT AN ENGINEER ENGINEER HERE, UH, MATTHEW MATNEY WITH KIMLEY HORN. KIMLEY-HORN IS ONE OF THE TOP TRAFFIC ENGINEERING FIRMS IN THE STATE OF TEXAS. UH, MATTHEW BE HERE, CAN ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. WE ALSO HAVE PASTOR PATRICK HERE WHO CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE OPERATIONS. WE DO HAVE A, A BRIEF PRESENTATION AND SO WE'LL GO THROUGH IT. UH, AS, AS MR. CARROLL SAID, HERE WE ARE. WE ARE ON, UH, ALMOND ROAD. UH, WE ARE AT THE EDGE OF THE ETJ. AND, UM, IF WE WERE JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER EAST, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE WE'D BE OUT IN THE COUNTY . IF WE WEREN'T WITHIN FIVE MILES OF CAMP BULLS, WE COULD PULL OUT THE ETJ AND WE WOULDN'T BE HERE. AND IF THIS WERE TWO YEARS AGO BEFORE THE, UH, THRESHOLD OF FIVE TRIPS WERE ESTABLISHED, WE WOULDN'T BE HERE. SO IT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WE ARE HERE, UH, TONIGHT. BUT, UH, THE LEFT TURN LANE AS, AS WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT, REALLY ISN'T WARRANTED IN THIS CASE AND WILL REALLY HAVE AN IMPACT OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON A CHURCH. NOW, THE MOST INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT THE, THE THRESHOLD IS FIVE TRIPS. IF WE PRODUCE 50 TRIPS, A HUNDRED TRIPS, OR IN OUR CASE 13 TRIPS, IT'S THE SAME. AND SO THE THRESHOLD REALLY DOESN'T CONSIDER THE UNIQUE ASPECT OF A CHURCH. IN THIS CASE, WE DON'T HAVE A SCHOOL. WE'RE NOT OPERATING ON SATURDAYS. WE'RE THERE ON SUNDAY MORNINGS, 9:00 AM 11:00 AM THE PASTORAL TALK ABOUT THEIR SERVICES. AND THE CHURCH IS ALREADY OPERATING, THEY'RE OPERATING ON HERF RIGHT NOW. SO THEY HAVE A PRETTY GOOD SENSE OF THE TRAFFIC PATTERNS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF THERE. THIS WOULD BE THEIR NEW PERMANENT HOME ON MOND. BUT IN OUR CASE, SIX AND A HALF DAYS OUTTA THE WEEK, THERE'S PRACTICALLY NO TRAFFIC BEING PRODUCED. NOW, LIKE I SAID, I'M JUST A LAWYER. I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, BUT I HAPPEN TO LIVE CLOSE HERE. SO SUNDAY MORNING, YESTERDAY I DROVE OVER HERE, DROVE UP AND DOWN ALMOND ROAD AT 9:00 AM UH, [03:30:01] WHICH IS WHEN THE SERVICES WOULD START. AND THEN I JUST PARKED AND I LOOKED AT THE CARS. AND EVEN THOUGH I'M IN, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, I CAN COUNT, I SAW TWO CARS GOING EAST AND ONE CAR GOING WEST. AND ABOUT A 25 MINUTE PERIOD, AGAIN, THAT'S NOT ENGINEERING, THAT'S JUST ME SITTING IN MY CAR LOOKING AT BASICALLY NO TRAFFIC ON A SUNDAY MORNING. 'CAUSE THERE'S ONLY TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE ON A SUNDAY MORNING, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO CHURCH OR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SLEEPING IN. AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE SLEEPING IN THIS, UH, SUNDAY MORNING YESTERDAY. UH, WHICH DOESN'T SURPRISE ME WITH THE RAIN BEING WHAT IT'S, UH, SO HERE'S A PROPERTY. IT'S ABOUT 18 ACRES. IT'S AN ETJ. I'M GONNA LET THE PASTOR COME UP AND TALK ABOUT CHURCH OPERATIONS IN, IN JUST A MINUTE. BUT LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE OPERATING OUTTA HERF. IF THEY HAD TO SPEND THE MONEY ON THE TURN LANE. THIS IS A NONPROFIT. IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S, YOU KNOW, GOING TO SOMEONE'S BOTTOM LINE. THIS IS MONEY THAT COMES OUT OF THEIR MINISTRY THAT THEY CAN'T APPLY TO THE MINISTRY SPINNING ON ETERNALLY. IT REALLY DOESN'T MAKE A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE. UH, AGAIN, WE'RE ASKING FOR THE VARIANCE FROM 2.1, 1.10 A OF THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL, WHICH AGAIN, IS ONLY A 2-YEAR-OLD REQUIREMENT. UH, WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO IS, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS AND PASTOR WILL TALK ABOUT THIS, IS WE'RE GONNA HAVE OFF-DUTY KENDALL COUNTY DEPUTY SHERIFFS OUT THERE ON ALMOND DIRECTING TRAFFIC. SO WE'LL HAVE THOSE OFFICERS OUT THERE TO MITIGATE ANY TRAFFIC IMPACT. UH, HE SAW PICTURES OF THE ROAD, UH, I'LL LEAVE IT TO THE ENGINEERS TO TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC SAFETY. MATT CAN ADDRESS THAT. BUT, UM, I DID WANNA MENTION THIS FROM A REGULATORY STANDPOINT. THE COUNTY AND THE COUNTY SENT YOU A LETTER, I'M GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND. IT'S IN YOUR PACKET. UH, THE COUNTY DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO MANDATE THIS TURN LANE. SO IF WE'RE JUST, IF WE'RE OUT, IF WE'RE OUT OF THE TETJ, THE COUNTY DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT LEFT TURN LANE, EVEN THOUGH THEY SENT YOU A LETTER ASKING YOU TO REQUIRE THAT LEFT TURN LANE. AND TXDOT DOESN'T REQUIRE THAT LEFT TURN LANE UNTIL YOU GET TO 15 TRIPS. AND WE'RE AT 13 TRIPS. SO TXDOT DOESN'T REQUIRE, THE COUNTY DOESN'T REQUIREMENT, AND THE CITY, AGAIN, HAS A RELATIVELY NEW REQUIREMENT FOR, THAT'S PRETTY AGNOSTIC TO THE TYPE OF USE THAT ANYTIME YOU HIT THAT FIVE NUMBER THAT YOU REQUIRE IT. SO THAT'S REALLY FROM A JURISDICTIONAL STANDPOINT. LAST PIECE BEFORE I TURN IT OVER TO THE ENGINEER AND TO THE PASTOR IS I WANNA ADDRESS THIS LETTER THAT THE COUNTY SENT. THE COUNTY ENGINEER SENT YOU ALL, AND I TAKE ISSUE WITH A COUPLE POINTS THAT THEY MADE. ONE, THE COUNTY FREELY ADMITS THAT THEY DON'T REQUIRE THE LEFT TURN LANE, CAN'T REQUIRE THAT LEFT TURN LANE. BUT THEN THEY CHALLENGE THE CONCEPT THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THESE, UH, KENDALL COUNTY DEPUTY SHERIFFS OUT THERE DIRECTING TRAFFIC. AND THEIR POSITION AS THE COUNTY'S POSITION IS THAT HAVING THOSE DEPUTIES OUT THERE MAKES TRAFFIC WORKS. THESE ARE PEOPLE, THESE ARE PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE TRAINED TO TRACK TRAFFIC AS PART OF THEIR DUTIES. WE SEE CHURCHES USE OFF-DUTY OFFICERS ALL OF THE TIME ALL THROUGHOUT THE AREA. I CAN'T SEE HOW HAVING AN OFF-DUTY, UH, DEPUTY SHERIFF IS GONNA MAKE TRAFFIC WORK. SO I TAKE ISSUE WITH THE COUNTY'S POSITION ON THAT. AND THEN THE OTHER POINT THAT THEY MAKE, THEY RAISE ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY. WE DIDN'T COME HERE TONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY. IT'S A LEGAL STANDARD. MR. MCCAIN, YOU CAN ADDRESS THAT. SO WE'RE NOT GONNA ARGUE ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY. THE COUNTY MAKES A POINT IN THEIR LETTER THAT THE ROUGHLY PROPORTIONATE DETERMINATION FOR THIS PROPERTY IS $2.2 MILLION. SO THE CHURCH SHOULD BE COUGHING UP UP TO TWO AND A HALF, $2.2 MILLION IN TRAFFIC MITIGATION. BUT THAT REALLY, AGAIN, WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE LEGAL, UH, ARGUMENTS OF ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY, WHICH IS US CONSTITUTION, TEXAS CONSTITUTION RULINGS BY THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT, THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DO WITH ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY, AS YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU ALSO SIT AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, IS THAT YOU DO AN INDIVIDUALIZED DETERMINATION. YOU DON'T JUST SAY, WELL, HERE'S WHAT YOUR COST SHOULD BE. A CHURCH IS DIFFERENT THAN A CONVENIENCE STORE, THAN A RESTAURANT, THAN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX, THAN AN OFFICE BUILDING THAT ALL COULD LOCATE THEORETICALLY ON THIS PROPERTY. A CHURCH IS DIFFERENT. AND JUST SAYING THAT, WELL, THE CHURCH'S OBLIGATION COULD BE UP TO 2.2 MILLION, DOESN'T REPRESENT OR REFLECT AN INDIVIDUALIZED DETERMINATION. THE OTHER PIECE OF IT IS THAT YOU LOOK AT EACH REQUIRED IMPROVEMENT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS AND CONSIDER EACH IMPROVEMENT, IN THIS CASE, THE TURN LANE SEPARATE FROM EACH OF THE OTHER REQUIRED IMPROVEMENTS. SO THE COUNTY RAISED THAT, AND I DON'T WANT TO BE A DISTRACTOR IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE COUNTY'S, UH, LETTER, AGAIN, WE VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE WITH THE COUNTY'S POSITION ON THAT. WE THINK THIS MAKES SENSE. WE THINK THAT IT'S GONNA BE SAFE. AND I WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE ENGINEERS. WE'LL BE READY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS AT THE END OF OUR PRESENTATION. MR. MATNEY, GOOD EVENING. UM, MATTHEW MATNEY WITH KIMLEY HORN. UM, AND I'M ALSO AT 1 0 1, UH, REUNION PLACE [03:35:01] DRIVE. UM, I'LL JUST MENTION TWO POINTS. I THINK JEFF COVERED THE TIA ANALYSIS PRETTY WELL, UM, AND THOROUGHLY. ONE THING TO MENTION IS 95% OF THE TRIPS THAT WE ANALYZED IN OUR TAA IN APRIL SHOW, UM, COMING FROM THE WEST, GOING EASTBOUND. AND WE RECOMMENDED A RIGHT TURN LANE TO BE INSTALLED IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE TRIPS FOR THAT PEAK HOUR SUNDAY MORNING. UM, THE 13 TRIPS COMING FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION, WHICH TRIGGERS THE LEFT TURN LANES, THE ONLY THING THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR VARIANCE ON. AND THAT COMES OUT TO ABOUT A VEHICLE EVERY FIVE MINUTES, JUST UNDER FIVE MINUTES, FOUR AND A HALF MINUTES. UM, AND SO IT'S BECAUSE OF THAT ANALYSIS THAT WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THE LEFT TURN LANE FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT. WE DON'T FIND THAT IT'S, UM, DETRIMENTAL TO SAFETY, UM, OR QUEUING WOULD CAUSE ANY ADDITIONAL QUEUING ISSUES ALONG THE ROAD. UM, BUT IT'S BECAUSE OF THE, THE FIVE TRIP THRESHOLD THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AND ASKING FOR A VARIANCE. UM, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE I'LL MENTION, WHENEVER WE LOOKED AT WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO INSTALL THE LEFT TURN LANE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APPROXIMATELY 700 LINEAR FEET OF, UM, ADDITIONAL PAVEMENT AND RETRIP, WHICH WOULD IMPACT, UM, SOME DRIVEWAYS ACROSS THE STREET AND CULVERT CROSSINGS THAT WE DON'T FIND NECESSARY. SO IT'S MORE THAN JUST THE IMPACT OF THE CHURCH, BUT ALSO THE IMPACT TO, TO NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES IF WE WERE TO INSTALL THAT LANE. UM, SO I'M HAPPY TO ADDRESS ANY OTHER QUESTIONS THAT Y'ALL MIGHT HAVE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO AT LEAST MAKE THOSE POINTS CLEAR. SO MR. MATNEY, THE CHURCH IS PUTTING IN THE RIGHT DESAL LANE YOU'RE RECOMMENDING? YES, SIR. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. MATNEY? TRAFFIC ENGINEER? ALRIGHT, UM, REVEREND PATRICK, ARE YOU NEXT? HELLO EVERYBODY. MY NAME IS JARED PATRICK. I USUALLY HAVE 35 MINUTES ON SUNDAYS. I'LL KEEP THIS TO THREE, BUT I'VE LIVED IN BERNIE FOR 12 YEARS WITH MY, UM, THREE KIDS AND WIFE. WE ABSOLUTELY LOVE BERNIE. I WAS ON STAFF AT CREEK CREEK FOR SEVEN YEARS. WE WERE SENT OUT TO START THE BRIDGE FELLOWSHIP FIVE YEARS AGO YESTERDAY. IT'S BEEN THE GREATEST JOY OF MY LIFE. IT'S BEEN THE HARDEST THING OF MY LIFE. BUT, UM, WE REALLY DO CARE ABOUT A COUPLE THINGS VERY, VERY DEEPLY. UH, FIRST WE WANNA LOVE OUR COMMUNITY WITH THE LOVE OF CHRIST. UH, WE REALLY DO SEE THAT WE WANNA REACH PEOPLE WHO ARE FAR FROM GOD AND BRING THEM INTO A GROWING, VIBRANT RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS. AND WE WANNA PARTNER WITH SOME VERY SPECIAL ORGANIZATIONS IN OUR COMMUNITY, UH, WHO SERVE THE MOST VULNERABLE IN THE AREA OF HUNGER AND FOSTERING FAMILIES. AND AS A LEAD PASTOR, I NOT ONLY PREACH AND LEAD THROUGH VISION, BUT I ALSO WITH OUR ELDERS ENSURE STEWARDSHIP OF ALL THAT GOD HAS ENTRUSTED TO US THROUGH THE GENEROUS, VOLUNTARY DONATIONS OF OUR MEMBERS. AND THROUGH THIS BUILDING PROJECT, I'VE SEEN SO MANY OF OUR PEOPLE, UM, GREAT BRIDGE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SACRIFICIALLY GIVEN TO THIS PROJECT FOR OUR PERMANENT HOME AND HUB. AND I REALLY WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT AFRAID TO SPEND RESOURCES AT ALL ON WHAT'S NECESSARY TO BUILD OUR PERMANENT HOME. IT'S NOT OUR FEAR. UM, WE SIMPLY WANNA BE HONEST AND HONESTLY SAY THAT WE, WE REALLY SPENT ALL OF THE MONEY THAT'S TRULY NECESSARY, UH, FOR THIS FACILITY. WE'VE BEEN TOLD THIS IS THE ROAD WORK AND ANYTHING WOULD BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 500 AND $750,000, DESPITE THE FACT THAT TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS SHOWS US EVEN WITH TEXTILE, IT MAY NOT BE NECESSARY. UM, SO ALL I JUST WANNA DO IS JUST SIMPLY ASK YOU, UH, HELP US STEWARD WELL THE RESOURCES THAT'S BEEN GIVEN TO US, UH, BASED ON WHAT WE FOUND IN THE TIA. UM, BUT GRATEFUL FOR YOU GUYS. THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE LATE. THANK YOU. AND CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR FIFTH YEAR ANNIVERSARY YESTERDAY. THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THAT'S AWESOME. PRAISE GOD FOR THAT. MR. COLLINS, I BELIEVE IS THE NEXT ONE WHO SIGNED UP TO SPEAK ON THIS. HOW ARE YOU? JONATHAN COLLINS? I SERVE AS AN ELDER AT THE BRIDGE. I'M REALLY GLAD THAT MR. MCCAMEY DOESN'T GET TO VOTE TONIGHT BECAUSE HE WAS MY LITTLE LEAGUE COACH AND I'M CONFIDENT I MADE HIM MAD A FEW TIMES BACK IN THE DAY. IT WAS LIKE 35 YEARS AGO. HE 11 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME. WOW. . UM, BUT NO, UH, THE, THE MAIN POINTS I WANNA MAKE TONIGHT IS THAT THIS IS NOT, UH, A NEW CHURCH. IT'S AN EXISTING CHURCH. WE, WE WE'RE IN, UH, HER ELEMENTARY RIGHT NOW. WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR FOUR OUT OF OUR FIVE YEARS. WE WERE IN BERNIE HIGH SCHOOL FOR ONE OF THOSE YEARS. UM, WE'RE, WE'RE APPROXIMATELY 1.3 MILES AWAY AT HEAR F RIGHT NOW FROM WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA BE. SO THIS IS NOT NEW TRAFFIC TO A NEW AREA. UM, WE'VE ALREADY HAD CIRCULATION IN THIS AREA INSIDE ESPERANZA. YOU'VE GOT A ONE WAY IN ONE WAY OUT. WE'VE NEVER HAD A SINGLE COMPLAINT ON TRAFFIC YET BEING AN ESPERANZA. UM, WE'VE NEVER ACTUALLY HAD TO UTILIZE ANY OFFICERS. WE HAVE TWO, UH, THAT SERVE AT OUR CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY, BUT WE'VE NEVER HAD TO USE THEM FROM A TRAFFIC PERSPECTIVE, [03:40:01] UH, ON THE TRAFFIC CONTROL PLAN. THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE'RE, WE'RE SAYING OUT THERE. LIKE, WE CARE EVEN MORE THAN I WOULD SAY YOU GUYS DO ABOUT THE SAFETY OF OUR MEMBERS. AND SO IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, THEY'RE SAFE AND THAT WE CAN HAVE A GOOD STEADY TRAFFIC FLOW, WE DESIRE TO DO IT. SO, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT RUNNING AWAY FROM ANYTHING LIKE THAT. THAT'S WHY THEY'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU WE'RE DOING A RIGHT DIESEL LANE. WE'VE GOT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT IS GONNA COME FROM THE WEST. THAT RIGHT DESAL LANE RIGHT NOW, I BELIEVE IS ABOUT 470 FEET. SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST A, A MINOR DESAL LANE ALREADY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE SPENDING SIGNIFICANT FUNDS ON TRAFFIC ALREADY, UH, WHEN WE WERE AT BERNIE HIGH SCHOOL. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE ONLY USE THE NORTH ENTRANCE AT BERNIE HIGH SCHOOL, UH, WHICH IS RIGHT THERE OFF OF SER UH, EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM UNDERSTANDS THE TRAFFIC THAT IS ON ESSA ROAD. UM, IT IS MORE SIGNIFICANT THAN AMMAN ROAD. WE HAVE NEVER HAD A SINGLE ACCIDENT OR COMPLAINT, UM, FROM ANYBODY IN THAT AREA EITHER. WE WERE THERE FOR OVER A YEAR, SO WE HAD ABOUT 45 TO 50 SERVICES, UH, RUNNING, UH, AT BERNIE HIGH SCHOOL. UM, SO JUST A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR, AND HAPPY TO ALSO ANSWER QUESTIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU MR. COLLINS. ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT FROM ANY COMMISSIONERS? ALL RIGHT, COMMISSIONER, DISCUSSION? COMMISSIONER HARLEY? NO, I WAS HOLDING BACK JUST TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANYBODY ELSE THAT HAD ANYTHING TO SAY, FIRST TEAM EXPERIENCE THAT I'D WANT TO SHARE, UM, AS I DISCLOSE THEM, A MEMBER AT THE BRIDGE. AND SO I GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO DRIVE UP AND DOWN ESPERANZA WAY, UH, ALMOST EVERY WEEK. NOT, UH, YOU KNOW, DON'T, DON'T QUOTE ME, YOU WON'T GO INTO THAT FREQUENTLY, FREQUENTLY. MAYBE YOU GO THIS SUNDAY FOR SURE, BUT, YOU KNOW, I HADN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE TONIGHT. LIKE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC UP AND DOWN ESPERANZA, IT'S NEVER CROSSED MY MIND THAT IT'S BURDENSOME. USUALLY WHEN I TAKE A LEFT TURN INTO ESPERANZA, THERE'S THREE CARS STACKED NOW THIS PAST FRIDAY. AND AS YOU ALL KNOW, I LIKE TO GO GET SOME PRACTICAL OBSERVATIONS. I GO OUT AND LOOK AT WHAT THINGS LOOK LIKE DURING A, A PEAK TIME. UM, AT EIGHT 10 FRIDAY, THIS PAST FRIDAY, I WAS EXTREMELY SURPRISED AT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON HAMMOND ROAD. UM, I FOUND A SPOT TO PULL OVER AND IT WAS JUST CARS BOTH WAYS. UM, THAT WASN'T, THAT WAS ON FRIDAY, NOT AS A RESULT OF CHURCH. AND THEN WE HAVE MR. KILLEN'S, UM, OBSERVATIONS FROM SUNDAY, ALBEIT A RAINY DAY. UM, I, I PRESUME THAT MOST TRAFFIC, OR I KNOW THE MOST TRAFFIC WILL BE GOING WEST TO EAST. UM, IN FACT, I'VE HAD FRIENDS OF MINE TELL ME I LIVE IN FAIR OAKS AND IT'S PERCEIVED THAT THEY WILL GET ON I 10 GO THROUGH BERNIE TO TAKE MOND MOND ROAD RATHER THAN TAKE 33 51 TO MOND ROAD, WHICH IS WHAT THE LEFT TURN LANE WOULD BE USED FOR. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, I FEEL, I FEEL COMFORTABLE THROUGH MY FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE AND THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC ON ESPERANZA WAY. AND THEN FROM MY OBSERVATIONS ON FRIDAY, THERE'S GONNA NEED TO BE MODIFICATIONS MADE TO AMIT AT SOME POINT. NOT BECAUSE OF A CHURCH GOING IN, BUT BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC THAT IS, THAT IS UP AND DOWN THAT, THAT ROAD FOR DAY-TO-DAY USE, NOT SUNDAY USE. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER BYRD? YEAH, IT'S, I USED TO OWN PROPERTY ON ROLLING ACRES AND MOND, AND YOU GET A LOT OF FAR OAKS TRAFFIC COMING THROUGH ROLLING ACRES, WHICH BRINGS YOU THROUGH THE EQUESTRIAN SIDE OF, OF FAIR OAKS. UM, AND YOU KNOW, AS, AS, AS SOMEBODY WHO'S DEVELOPED AND, AND BUILT COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, UM, I JUST ASKED MYSELF, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IT ONLY TAKES ONE, ONE ACCIDENT, ONE FATALITY TO SAY, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE VALUE ENGINEERED THE TILE FLOOR AND NOT THE TURNING LANE, YOU KNOW, OUT OF THE PROJECT. UM, BUT THE THING ABOUT EMON ROAD IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S STILL SO MUCH PRIVATE, YOU KNOW, LARGE PROPERTIES IN THERE THAT ARE GONNA GET SOLD OFF BY THE GRANDKIDS MM-HMM . UM, AND ARE, AND ARE GONNA BE DEVELOPED BECAUSE THAT'S JUST WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING. I MEAN, IT'S A GREAT STREET. UM, I'VE DRIVEN IT A A A THOUSAND TIMES. I'M CONCERNED WITH THE ELEVATIONS WHEN YOU'RE HEADING WEST ON EDMOND ROAD. 'CAUSE YOU GET A LOT OF HIGH GROUND AND LOW GROUND AND YOU, AND UNFORTUNATELY WHEN I WENT OUT THERE, I DIDN'T GO ALL THE WAY DOWN AND COME BACK TO SEE WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE IF I'M A HIGH SCHOOL KID DOING 70, WHICH THEY DO, UM, OUT OF FAIR OAKS HEADING WEST ON MOND ROAD. I, I WASN'T SURE, UM, WHAT THE APPROACH WAS TO WHERE THE TURN IN [03:45:01] WOULD BE TO THE, TO THE CHURCH. UM, BUT IT, IT DOES, IT WORRIES ME. IT, IT CONCERNS ME THAT IF, IF WE'RE GONNA VALUE ENGINEER SOMETHING THAT IT, IT SHOULDN'T BE THE SAFETY OF OUR NEIGHBORS AND, AND OUR CONGREGATION. IT AS MUCH AS I WANT TO SAY YES. UM, BECAUSE I, I, UH, I I LOVE WHAT YOU GUYS ARE, WHAT, WHAT'S GOING ON THERE? UM, IT, IT JUST, IT JUST WORRIES ME. OKAY. GOOD COMMENTS. ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO ADD? UM, WE'RE ALSO NOT PLANNING JUST FOR TODAY, WE'RE PLANNING FOR THE NEXT 10 TO 20 YEARS, AND I GUARANTEE YOU THAT AREA'S GONNA EXPLODE. MM-HMM . OKAY. ALL I GOT. ALRIGHT. MR. KELLER. I, I AGREE. I THINK THE AREA IS CERTAINLY GOING TO EXPLODE AND CONTINUE TO DO SO. UM, YOU KNOW, MY, I GUESS MY THOUGHT WOULD BE THAT TO ASK, TO ASK THEM TO BEAR THE BURDEN OF, OR THAT FINANCIAL BURDEN ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR ONE DAY A WEEK, IT SEEMS KIND OF OUTLANDISH TO ME, ESPECIALLY WITH THE INVESTMENT THEY'VE MADE IN THE STUDIES. AND IF IT, IF IT IS FIVE CARS OR WHATEVER IT IS, TURNING LEFT THERE ON SUNDAYS, I TO MAKE THAT INVESTMENT IN THAT INFRASTRUCTURE SEEMS UNFAIR IN MY OPINION. AND IF THERE'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE DEVELOPMENT OUT OUT THERE, WHICH UNDOUBTEDLY WILL HAPPEN, THEN, UH, TO COMMISSIONER ER'S POINT, I THINK THAT SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN WITH AMEN TO WIDEN AND ALLEVIATE THOSE CONCERNS. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE? COMMISSIONER FRIAR? SO I, I, I ECHO BOTH OF YOUR SENTIMENTS AND YOU GENTLEMEN MADE A VERY COMPELLING ARGUMENT. AND MY MIND THOUGH, I FEEL LIKE AS I'M LISTENING TO YOU TALK, IF I TAKE THE CHURCH OUT OF IT, IF IT'S, IF IT WASN'T A CHURCH, 'CAUSE THAT'S A LITTLE HARDER TO, YOU KNOW, PULL AT YOUR HEARTSTRINGS A LITTLE BIT. BUT IF IT WASN'T A CHURCH, HOW WOULD I FEEL ABOUT IT THEN? AND I, I AM A MOTHER OF THREE YOUNG ADULTS THAT ALL GRADUATED FROM CHAMPION HIGH SCHOOL AND THEY HAD LOTS AND LOTS OF FRIENDS THAT LIVED IN FAIR OAKS. AND I'M TELLING YOU, THERE ARE LOTS OF TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS BY OUR YOUNG, CRAZY DRIVERS ON MOND ROAD AND THEY DRIVE EXTREMELY FAST. UM, I KNOW THERE IS A DEVELOPMENT THAT IS COMING. IT'S NOT A LARGE, UM, RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT, BUT IT IS A DEVELOPMENT COMING OUT THERE. AND I KNOW THERE'S LIKELY MANY MORE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF LAND THAT'S AVAILABLE OUT THAT DIRECTION. UM, WE ONLY GET ONE CHANCE TO MAKE THIS RIGHT. WE ONLY GET ONE CHANCE TO FIX A PORTION OF A ROAD WHEN ALL THE REST OF OUR ROADS ARE SUCH A MESS ANYWAYS. AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S EVER GONNA BE A DAY SCHOOL OR IF THERE'S EVER GONNA BE, UM, YOU KNOW, TEEN NIGHTS ON WEDNESDAYS THAT ARE GONNA COINCIDE WITH TRAFFIC OF AFTER AFTERSCHOOL FOOTBALL PRACTICES AND ALL THESE THINGS. I I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO ANTICIPATE THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE THAN JUST SUNDAY MORNING ACTIVITY IN THIS. SO I'M, I'M HESITANT TO, TO SAY NO, BUT I AGREE WITH MR. KELLER THAT ONE DAY A WEEK IS A HUGE INVESTMENT, BUT I THINK IT, IN, IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS, 10 TO 15 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD OR MORE, CERTAINLY YOUR DESIRES TO EXPAND YOUR TO CAMPUS WOULD EXIST TO MORE THAN JUST SUNDAYS. AND MAYBE THAT WOULD BE THE OPPORTUNITY THEN TO ADD A TURN LANE. WHAT WOULD THIS, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? WELL, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M THINKING. THIS IS, THIS IS A TOUGH ISSUE. THIS IS A, YOU KNOW, YOU BALANCE ONE DAY A WEEK FOR A CHURCH VERSUS THE COMMENTS THAT COMMISSIONER BIRD HAS MADE VERSUS THE MONEY SPENT FOR ONE DAY A WEEK. I MEAN, DO YOU ALL HAVE MIDWEEK SERVICES CURRENTLY? REVEREND PATRICK, UH, LIGHTEN US ON, I MEAN, ADVENT SERVICES, LENT SERVICES. DO YOU GUYS DO ANYTHING DURING THE WEEK? NO, SIR. UH, WE HAVE SUNDAY MORNING SERVICES. WE HAVE STUDENT MINISTRY ON WEDNESDAY NIGHTS, UH, THAT WE HAVE AT OUR WAREHOUSE RIGHT NOW. UM, BUT OTHER THAN SUNDAY MORNINGS, WE REALLY DON'T, DON'T HAVE ANYTHING NOR ANY DESIRE FOR A, A DAYCARE OR SCHOOL. SO NO MOTHER'S DAY OUT PROGRAMS ON, ON THE WAY NO DAY SCHOOL PROGRAMS, SIR. ON THE WAY, SIR, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, DRIVING DOWN THERE ON SUNDAY MORNING, AND I AGREE WITH MR. BIRD, I'VE SEEN KIDS GO REALLY FAST, LIKE I'VE GONE FASTER THAN I SHOULD TOO. UM, ALONG THAT STRETCH, EVEN THOUGH IT IS SOMEWHAT HILLY, UM, THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FUN, RIGHT, BILL? UM, BUT YOU KNOW, SUNDAY MORNING YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF KIDS DRIVING FAST ON SUNDAY MORNING AT NINE O'CLOCK THEY'RE [03:50:01] GONNA BE HOME SLEEPING OR THEY'RE GONNA BE IN CHURCH WITH THEIR PARENTS. I THINK THEY'RE GONNA BE IN CHURCH WITH US. NO, THAT WOULD BE GOOD . UM, BUT IF WE GET BEYOND THAT TO ACTIVITIES DURING THE WEEK, I'D BE INTERESTED IN WHAT MR. MCKINNEY WOULD'VE TO SAY ABOUT ADDING A STIPULATION THAT SAYS THAT THEY DO ANYTHING. MOTHER'S DAY OUT DAY SCHOOL, A CONSISTENT WEEKNIGHT SERVICE THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AND, AND REDO A TRAFFIC STUDY. AND IF THE TRAFFIC STUDY AT THAT POINT, UM, SAYS THEY GET 15 VEHICLES, YOU KNOW, TO MEET THE TXDOT STANDARD. I KNOW OURS IS FIVE, JEFF, I GET THAT. BUT IF THEY MEET THAT, THEN THEY GOTTA PUT IT IN. I, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A SAFETY CONCERN. UH, WE'RE BALANCING THAT AGAINST THIS EXPENSE FOR A ONE DAY A WEEK, SUNDAY MORNING TYPE DEAL. BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK OUT DOWN THE ROAD AND IF THIS ACTIVITY INCREASES, WHICH I SUSPECT YOU'LL WANT IT TO INCREASE AS YOU WANT TO GROW, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME PRECAUTIONS TAKEN AND SOME MEASURES TAKEN TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ON THAT, ALONG THAT STRETCHER SAFE, JUST LIKE THE RIGHT DESAL LANE IS BEING PUT IN AT SOME POINT, I THINK A LEFT DESAL LANE'S GONNA BE WARRANTED. HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THAT? I THINK IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND, UH, SO WITH THE, WHAT THE BUILDING WE'RE PUTTING ON OUR MOND ROAD PROPERTY IS AS LARGE AS IT CAN BE. WE'RE NOT PUTTING ANYTHING ELSE. THERE'S NO ANYTHING ELSE TO PUT ON HAMMOND ROAD OR ON THAT, THAT PROPERTY. SO, UM, THAT TOTAL NUMBER OF CARS THAT WAS LOOKED AT FOR SUNDAY MORNING WAS THE MAX CAPACITY THAT OUR CHURCH COULD EVER HAVE TO BEGIN WITH. SO EVEN A, A MOTHER'S DAY OUT WOULD NEVER HAVE THAT NUMBER OF CARS OR ANYTHING ON A, ON A WEEKDAY. UM, SO WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT SUNDAY MORNINGS THERE ARE, IS ANY CHURCH'S MAX CAPACITY BY TOTAL NUMBER OF CARS. OKAY. MR. COLLINS, YOU WANNA ADD SOMETHING? YEAH, I'M GONNA ADD ONE THING. SO WHEN WE ORIGINALLY PURCHASED THE PROPERTY BEFORE WE DID IT, WE MET WITH THE NEIGHBORS IN THE AREA AND WE AGREED TO A HUNDRED FOOT BUFFER ON EVERY SINGLE SIDE. UM, WE HAD TO GET THAT JUST TO BE ABLE TO BUILD THE CHURCH. AND SO WE HAD ALL THAT SIGNED AND DOCUMENTED. SO I, THAT, THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF THE REASON THAT WE CAN'T EXPAND THIS. WE'RE A PLANTING CHURCH TO BEGIN WITH. WE WERE PLANTED BY CURRY CREEK. CURRY CREEK WAS PLANTED BY FIRST BAPTIST. UM, SO WHEN WE WE'RE BUILDING WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE IN, AND SO AFTER THAT WE'LL BE PLANTING ANOTHER CHURCH SOMEWHERE ELSE. OKAY. UM, SO EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE ON ANY DESIGN WORK, UH, IT, IT CAN'T GET BIGGER. MR. KIMMY, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT REQUIRING A NEW TIA IF ACTIVITY INCREASES TO SOME LEVEL, SOME THRESHOLD, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE BUILT IN A MECHANISM FOR THAT TO MONITOR OR ENFORCE, UH, EXCEPT AT THE POINT OF APPROVAL. SO I'D HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT SOME MORE. IT BASICALLY YOU'D BE GIVING A, UH, A TIME LIMIT ON YOUR, ON YOUR VARIANCE APPROVAL AND IT'D HAVE TO BE RENEWED OR INSPECTED OR VIEWED OR NEW TIA EVERY SO OFTEN. CAN WE DO THAT? UH, IS THERE ANY TRUST? I, I DON'T KNOW. WE, IF WE'RE NOT, WE DON'T HAVE THAT BUILT IN AS A MECHANISM. HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT. FOR EXAMPLE, IT WOULD BE, LET'S SAY VARIANCE FOR TWO YEARS AND THEN THEY'D HAVE TO REAPPLY. THAT'S PRETTY COSTLY TO REAPPLY. DO A TIA, WHAT DOES THE TIA COST MR. MATNEY, WHAT MUCH DID THE CHURCH PAY YOU? TIA , LET'S GET IT OUT THERE. DID YOU GIVE 10% BACK? I'M BE CURIOUS. I'M JUST I'M JUST CURIOUS WHAT, WHAT, WHAT'S THE COST OF THIS? I'M NOT DONE THAT YET. YEAH, I THINK IF WE WERE JUST TO UPDATE THE TIA, IT WOULD BE A MINIMAL COST. IT'D BE A FRACTION OF THE FULL TIA THAT WE'VE DONE TO DATE. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WHAT SINGLE DIGITS IN THE THOUSANDS OR YEAH, FIVE FIGURES. WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT? RIGHT? FEW THOUSAND. FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS. YEAH. OKAY. NOT, NOT ON A MAJOR EXPENSE. UM, YOU DID THAT DOCUMENT, YOU KNOW, A PRACTICAL APPLICATION. I'M TRYING TO THINK OF ROADS THAT ARE SIMILAR. MM-HMM . UPPER BALCONES, SCENIC LOOP, CASCADE CAVERNS. NAME, NAME, A TURN LANE BILL. DO Y'ALL HAVE A TURN LANE GOING LEFT INTO Y'ALL'S ON ANY OF THOSE? THERE ISN'T, NO. NOT TO. YOU DON'T LEFT INTO MARK OR WERE YOU TURN LEFT TO GO TO MARK MOTORS. IS THERE A TURN, MIDDLE TURN LANE THERE? NO, THERE'S NOT, THERE'S A PARTICULAR AREA ON CASCADE CAVERNS THAT HAS, DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER ROAD COMING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES DIRECTING TRAFFIC EVERY SINGLE WEEKDAY? UM, THAT I'M NOT AWARE OF AN ACCIDENT ALONG WITH RESIDENTIAL GROWTH IN RECENT YEARS IT'S BEEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN ADDED. SO WHEN WE START TO LOOK AT HAMMOND ROAD, THERE IS ANOTHER CHURCH OUT THERE AS A CASE STUDY AND A PROOF POINT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ATTENDANCE IS FOR THAT CHURCH, BUT THIS [03:55:01] IS A, A MORE OF A RURAL AREA THAN CASCADE MIGHT BE COMPARABLE TO UPPER BALCONES. UM, JUST TRYING TO ESTABLISH SOME BASELINE OF COMPARABLE AREAS. CHRISTOPHER SENIO, YOU'VE GOT A COMMENT. I DO. UM, I WAS GONNA START BY JUST SAYING I'M SURPRISED THAT THE LEFT TURN LANE IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE LEGAL AND ENGINEERING FEES, BUT THAT ASIDE, , UM, I KNOW IT'S, I KNOW IT'S A, IT'S AN, IT'S A, UH, IT'S UM, IT'S A, UM, EXPENSIVE PROPOSITION. BUT THAT ASIDE TO COMMISSIONER BYRD'S POINT, UM, I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO LOOK OUT 10, 15 YEARS, RIGHT? UM, THERE'S A LOT OF PROPERTIES ON THERE. IT SEEMS TO BE A POPULAR CORRIDOR FOR CHURCHES. I THINK THERE'S AT LEAST TWO, MAYBE THREE, I DON'T KNOW. UM, BUT UM, JUST LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD, UM, NOW 13 CARS ON A SUNDAY BECOMES 130 CARS ON A SUNDAY. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S GONNA HAPPEN, BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT COULD HAPPEN. AND WHATEVER WE APPROVE OR DON'T APPROVE, UM, OBVIOUSLY IT BECOMES, YOU KNOW, PRECEDENTS AND THE NEXT APPLICANT WOULD HAVE TO MEET THE RESTRICTIONS OR THE REQUIREMENTS. UM, OR WE JUST HAVE TO APPROVE IT, RIGHT? BECAUSE WE APPROVE THIS. OKAY. IS THERE A, UH, LOOK, COMMISSIONER CASE, YOU HAVEN'T SAID ANYTHING. I WANT TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS. YEAH, I, I THINK, UH, THE, A COUPLE OF THINGS AS I'M SITTING HERE LISTENING TO THIS, I'M HEARING A LOT OF, WHAT IF IN 10 OR 15 YEARS A LOT OF THESE OTHER PROPERTIES DEVELOP, UM, THEY'RE BRINGING THE TRAFFIC. THE CHURCH ISN'T, UH, SO IN 10 OR 15 YEARS, IF THOSE PROPERTIES ALL DEVELOP AND ALL THAT TRAFFIC COMES IN, UH, TDOT THE COUNTY, SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE TO EXPAND ALMOND ROAD TO KEEP IT SAFE. A UH, THE CHURCH IS GONNA HAVE SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES, UH, THERE'S A LOT OF CHURCHES, UH, THERE'S A BIG CHURCH RIGHT AT UH, UH, THE RIM THAT, UH, THEY'VE GOT A LOT OF SHERIFF DEPUTIES OUT THERE EVERY SUNDAY. AND THAT'S NO ISSUE. AND, UM, SO I, BUT, BUT I THINK WHERE MIND BUYING GOES IS TO THESE BIG A HUNDRED, 200 ACRE DEVELOPMENTS THAT COME INTO US ONE 5,000 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT AT A TIME AND SAY, OH NO, WE HAVE NO IMPACT ON TRAFFIC. OH NO, WE HAVE NO IMPACT ON TRAFFIC. AND THEY SKATE. THEY, THEY'RE NEVER RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING. AND WE'VE GOT A, UH, UH, LEGITIMATE TIA HERE THAT SAYS ON SUNDAY WE'RE GONNA HAVE 15 TRIPS. UM, SO I, I THINK, UH, BLAH BLAH, I ABSOLUTELY RESPECT THE, THE SAFETY, THE UH, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, JUST ONE ACCIDENT, IT'S ALL IT'S GONNA TAKE. BUT, UH, THE FACT THAT THERE'S GONNA BE, UH, LAW ENFORCEMENT OUT THERE, UH, THE FACT THAT IF GROWTH IS COMING LIKE THAT IN 10 OR 15 YEARS, THAT'S NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY. THAT'S THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT BRING IT. UM, I DON'T THINK THIS IS AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST AT ALL. ESPECIALLY FOR ONE SUNDAY TALKING ABOUT SITTING THE PRESIDENT. IF ANOTHER CHURCH COMES IN HERE THAT'S MEETING ONE SUNDAY A WEEK, I SAY WE COULD USE THE SAME PRECEDENT IF A BUSINESS COMES IN HERE AND SAYS, WAIT A MINUTE, THEY HAD 14 TRIPS AND YOU LET THEM OFF. AND IT'S LIKE, YEAH, BUT YOU'VE GOT 'EM THERE SIX DAYS A WEEK. SO THAT'S NOT SITTING THE PRECEDENT IN MY OPINION. SO I CAN, I CAN CERTAINLY SUPPORT THE UH, THE WAIVER ON THIS. LET ME ASK, IS THERE A, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS FOR SPENCER RANCH, WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING TEXTILE APPROVAL OF FLASHING YELLOW SIGNS, WARNING PEOPLE THAT THERE'S AN INTERSECTION AHEAD, THAT THERE'S A TURNOFF. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY HERE, THAT EXPENSE OF INSTALLATION EAST WESTBOUND EMON ROADS CAN BE FAR LESS THAN THE EXPENSE OF A LEFT TURN LANE? IS THAT SOMETHING THE CHURCH WOULD BE WILLING TO FRONT JUST TO WARN PEOPLE ON A STANDARD BASIS? 'CAUSE YOU GUYS ARE GONNA GROW, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE ACTIVITIES DURING THE WEEK. UM, AND MY GUESS IS DURING THE WEEK YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES THERE ALL THE TIME. I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT SUNDAY MORNING FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT COMMISSIONER CATES HAS SHARED. I'M WORRIED ABOUT FUTURE GROWTH A MOTHER'S DAY OUT A DAY SCHOOL, SOMETHING WHERE THERE'S NOT GONNA BE SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES ON A VERY BUSY ROAD THAT'S GONNA GET BUSIER AND HAVING SOMETHING THAT FLASHES FROM BOTH DIRECTIONS TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, CHURCH AHEAD OR WHATEVER IT IS, JUST TO WARN PEOPLE TO SLOW DOWN. IS THAT SOMETHING YOU DON'T BE WILLING TO ENTERTAIN? ABSOLUTELY. I THINK WE WOULD ENTERTAIN, YES SIR. ANSWER YES. UH, MR. MCCA, CAN WE MAKE THAT A STIPULATION TO THE VARIANCE? I DON'T KNOW HOW ABOUT THEY GO ABOUT GETTING APPROVALS, BUT I GUESS YOU COULD. THAT'S [04:00:01] MOND ROADS IN THE COUNTY. IT'S NOT A STATE CONTROLLED HIGHWAY. RIGHT. UH, BUT THERE ARE MR. CAROL. OH, THERE YOU MANUALS RIP MY MIND. I MEAN THE TRAFFIC UNIFORM TRAFFIC MANUALS. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WOULD BE ALLOWED. SO YOU'RE, THE TERM IS THE ADVANCE WARNING? BEACON IS OUR NERDY ENGINEERING TERM. UM, BUT WE ARE REVIEWING CONSTRUCTION PLANS NOW AS PART OF THE PROJECT. THE THE, THEY DO HAVE SOME PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS. THE THE RIGHT DESAL LANE, THEY'VE TURNED THEIR PLANS IN. WE'VE DONE OUR FIRST ROUND REVIEW. UH, THERE'S THE TURN LANE, THERE'S GONNA BE SOME BORDER ORDER STREET IMPROVEMENTS. SO WE WILL HAVE A CONSTRUCTION SET OF PLANS THAT'LL BE AS PART OF THE PLAT. UM, SO IT'LL JUST BE SOMETHING OF ADDING THAT BEACON LOCATIONS INTO THAT CONTROL. WHAT ABOUT THE U-M-T-C-D AND USE OF THOSE WARNING SIG SIGNALS? THERE ARE, WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT. THAT'S A GREAT POINT. BUT IF THERE ARE, THERE ARE SOME, AS IT'S MENTIONED A COUPLE TIMES THERE'S BEEN SOME, THERE'S SOME UPS AND DOWNS ON THE ROAD, THERE'S SOME VERTICAL SITE DISTANCE. SO I THINK WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO FALL INTO SOME OF THE SITE DISTANCE ISSUES. OKAY. THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO WAS MY INITIAL THOUGHT. SO THEY'VE GOTTA COME TO US WITH A PLAT, CORRECT. RIGHT. 'CAUSE IT'S IN THE ETJ. CORRECT. SO AS PART OF THAT, IF THIS GETS VARIANCE GETS APPROVED TODAY, I WOULD EXPECT TO SEE SOME OF THESE NERDY NAME THINGS YOU CALL DEVICES ADVANCED WARNING DEVICES IN THAT PLAT SUBMITTAL. IT'D BE PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS FOR THE PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO BE APPROVED AS PART OF THE PLATTING PROCESS? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I LIKE THAT IDEA. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU FOR SUGGESTING MR. CAMIAN. AS FAR AS TIMING THOUGH, CONSTRUCTION PLANS ARE AFTER THE PLAT PRELIMINARY PLATING. RIGHT. SO THEY WOULDN'T BE REQUIRED AT THE NEXT CONSIDERATION BY THE PNC. IT'S THE WAY WE KIND OF HAVE IT NOW, IT'S KIND OF A, A A A PROCESS TO, AT THE SAME TIME WITH THE, THE UPDATED PLATTING PROCESS, KINDA THE PLAT MOVES THROUGH AND THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS MOVE THROUGH. OKAY. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF YOU WERE GONNA SEE THAT WHEN YOU SAW THE PLAT. THEY COULD CERTAINLY PUT THAT ON THE PLA THOUGH, RIGHT? MR. KILLEN, YOU COULD ADD, ADD IT AS A NOTE TO THE PLA, PLEASE. YES. YES. OKAY. I LIKE THAT. UH, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? CHRISTOPHER FRIAR, IF THEY OUTGROW THE FACILITY, THEY MOVE ON SOMEWHERE ELSE TO BUILD SOMETHING BIGGER AND THAT PROPERTY SELLS. IS THE NEW BUYER REQUIRED TO DO A NEW TIA? NO, UH, MR. MATNEY? YEAH. SO LIKELY IF THEY SOLD, THEY WOULD HAVE TO, THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING SOME SORT OF CHANGE THE PROPERTY, WHICH WILL REQUIRE A PERMIT. UM, SO I GUESS IT DEPENDS, RIGHT? IT DEPENDS. IF, IF IT'S STRICTLY GOING TO THE COUNTY AND THEN THE COUNTY WOULD REQUIRE A NEW TIA, UM, AND THEN AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE REEVALUATED, BUT THERE, THERE WOULD BE MECHANISMS IN PLACE TO HAVE TO PROVIDE AN UPDATED ANALYSIS FROM, FOR ALL ENGINEERING, RIGHT? TRAFFIC, DRAINAGE, EVERYTHING RELATED TO WHATEVER THE FUTURE USE MAY BE IF THEY SOLD IT. SO POTENTIALLY, YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YES. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM ANY COMMISSIONER? MR. DO WE HAVE A LIST OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE NEED TO, THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO ADHERE TO WHEN, UH, CONSIDERING A VARIANCE? DO WE HAVE THAT LIST WITH US, MR. CAROL? UM, IS THERE LIKE A LIST OF THINGS WE'RE SUPPOSED TO CONSIDER WHEN WE CONSIDER A VARIANCE REQUEST LIKE THIS? HOW YOU CAN IMPROVE? YEAH. BECAUSE THERE'S SOME CRITERIA, AND I WOULD IMAGINE THAT PUBLIC SAFETY WOULD BE INCLUDED IN ONE OF THOSE. YES. I DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT IN HERE. I KNOW WHEN WE HAVE, WE, THE LAST VARIANCE I WAS PART OF WAS A FLOODPLAIN. AND FLOODPLAIN HAVE SOME VERY SPECIFIC, SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, BUT THERE ARE ANOTHER PORTION, NATHAN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER. I DON'T HAVE THOSE MEMORIZED THOSE. SORRY, I DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT IN THE PRESENTATION. NO, I DON'T REMEMBER. WELL 'CAUSE I KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS IS THAT WE CAN'T, WE DON'T WANT TO CREATE ANY DETRIMENTAL SITUATIONS FOR THE NEIGHBORS THAT ARE THERE NOW. MM-HMM . OR FOR THE, THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE THERE NOW. AND I, AND I DON'T WANT TO BEAT THIS THING TO DEATH, BUT GUYS, WE, WE GET ONE CHANCE AT THIS. AND, UH, TO ME, WHETHER IT'S SUNDAY MORNING, ONE CAR, TWOS CARS, I MEAN, THEY CALL 'EM ACCIDENTS FOR A REASON. YOU DON'T PLAN 'EM, YOU CAN'T ENGINEER 'EM. YOU CAN'T SAY, WHAT IF WE DO IT ON THIS DAY INSTEAD OF THAT DAY. IT'S ACCIDENTS. AND I FEEL VERY STRONGLY THAT, UH, THAT I WOULD, IF I WAS GONNA ERR, I WOULD ERR ON THE SIDE OF SAFETY. OKAY. BUT AGAIN, THE COMMITMENT TO HAVE OFFICERS THERE ON SUNDAY MORNING, IS THAT A EVERY SUNDAY MORNING, JUST LIKE OAK HILLS? YES, SIR. WE'VE HAD, UH, SHERIFF'S OFFICERS SINCE DAY ONE. UH, WE HAD ONE OFFICER AT THE BEGINNING AND NOW WE'VE HAD TWO OFFICERS EVERY SUNDAY FOR ALMOST FOUR AND A HALF YEARS. AND SO WE WOULD JUST CONTINUE THAT WITH OUR TRAFFIC, UH, PLAN OF OFFICERS ON SUNDAY MORNINGS. OKAY. SO LET ME ASK A QUESTION. YES. UH, [04:05:01] OFFICERS OUT THERE HOLDS UP THE WESTBOUND TRAFFIC, THE 13 CARS. 'CAUSE THERE'S ONLY 13 OF THEM HOLDS THEM UP SO THAT ALL THE WESTBOUND TRAFFIC CAN TURN IN AND KID COMES FLYING OVER DOWN THE STREET INTO THOSE 13 CARS. I DON'T THINK AN, I DON'T THINK AN OFFICER, AND WHEN I, WHEN I GO TO OAK HILLS, IT'S, I'M APPRECIATIVE THAT THE OFFICERS ARE OUT THERE, BUT IT'S SOMETIMES YOU GOTTA DO A LITTLE BRAKE CHECK MM-HMM . AND HIT YOUR BLINKERS AND CHECK YOUR MIRRORS. 'CAUSE PEOPLE COME FLYING THROUGH THERE AND IT, IT GETS TRICKY. I'M, I'M NOT SAYING THAT. I MEAN, IT, IT CERTAINLY HELPS AND I'M GRATEFUL TO IT AND I'M ALSO VERY GRATEFUL FOR THE, THE RIGHT DESAL LANE, UM, WHICH I THINK IS CRITICAL. MM-HMM . BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST GETTING ONE SHOT AT THIS AND, AND WITH IT BEING A PUBLIC, A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE, UH, AND I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. NO, YOU'VE EXPRESSED CONCERNS VERY WELL. I MEAN, I, I THINK WE'RE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY. THAT'S ONE. I KNOW YOU ARE, WE ARE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY. AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, I FOND A SAYING THIS REASONABLE MINDS CAN DIFFER. UM, AND CERTAINLY, UH, COMMISSIONER BURT'S POSITION IS REASONABLE. UM, IS THERE A MOTION THIS EVENING ON THIS ITEM? COMMISSIONER KATES, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE VARIANCE. OKAY. UM, WITH THE EXPECTATION PERHAPS THAT THEY'RE GONNA COME TO US WITH A PLA WITH WARNING. THERE'RE SIGNS THAT MR. CARROLL SPOKE ABOUT IT IS THAT A, IS AN EXPECTATION. ENFORCEABLE . WE'VE REALLY TEXT MR. MCCAMEY THIS EVENING, I'LL TELL YOU, MAKE IT A CONDITION OF THE VARIANCE THAT THEY ADDRESS THAT ISSUE IN THE PLA. WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO DO THAT? CONSIDER THAT. WELL, I, I WOULD BE, EXCEPT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE OVERHEAD BIG YELLOW FLASHING SIGN? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A POLE SIGN? ARE WE, I MEAN, I'M TALKING ABOUT A POLE SIGN ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD ON BOTH SIDES, POINT AND WEST. I MEAN, I JUST DON'T WANT TO, UH, HOW, HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT A CONDITION AND LEAVE IT OPEN FOR WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE WITHOUT, WELL, MR. CARROLL'S GOT GOOD JUDGMENT. I WOULD TRUST MR. CARROLL'S JUDGMENT IN THAT REGARD. THEN I SHALL MAKE THAT A, UH, AS TO WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. YEAH. A COMMITMENT. I THINK WE CAN JUST REFERENCE THE APPROVAL OF THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE PLANS. OKAY. AGAIN, IT'LL BE SHOWN ON THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE PLANS. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ALL. SO DONE. YES. SO MOVED. IS THERE COMMISSIONER LER SECONDED IT. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION AMONG THE COMMISSION? AND BY THE WAY, I MEAN, AGAIN, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE AREAS REASONABLE MINDS CAN DIFFER. EVERYBODY'S RAISED GOOD POINTS. ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. EVERYBODY HAS. I JUST WANT TO GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF AN ACCIDENT YESTERDAY MORNING THAT I WITNESSED ON NORTH SCHOOL STREET IN FRONT OF THE CITY CEMETERY THAT DOESN'T HAVE A TURN LANE. YEAH. AND A TREE AND A CAR HIT A TREE AND FLIPPED OVER. WOW. YOU KNOW, 30 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT GOING WAY TOO FAST. UM, YEP. 30 MILE AN HOUR SPEED LIMIT. UM, YOU KNOW, IT CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE, YOU KNOW, SO FOR THIS FEAR OF ONE ACCIDENT, WE, THERE'S ACCIDENTS. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY ACCIDENTS ARE THERE IN TOWN EVERY DAY. WELL, I'M SURE THAT DIRECTOR CRANE KNOWS THAT RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF HIS HEAD. UH, YOU JUST PROBABLY TALKED TO CHIEF EZ RIGHT BEFORE THIS MEETING. , YES. AS ANY MUNICIPALITY OR ANY HIGHWAY, THERE ARE ACCIDENTS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 13 PEOPLE TURNING LEFT ON A SUNDAY MORNING. OKAY. UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, UH, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE SPLITTING GEARS TO TOGETHER. ANYTHING ELSE FROM ANYONE ELSE? ALL RIGHT. CAST YOUR VOTES. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. OH, FOUR TO THREE. WOW. THAT'S THE CLOSEST VOTE WE'VE EVER HAD. UM, ALL RIGHT. MOTION'S APPROVED. FOUR IN FAVOR. THREE OPPOSED. UM, MOTION CARRIES. UM, THANK YOU. WOW. THAT'S FIRST SPLIT VOTE WE'VE HAD IN ALMOST SIX YEARS. VERY CLOSE. THAT WAS, THAT WAS CLOSE. THAT WAS CLOSE. UM, THANK YOU ALL. WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT, UH, SUBMITTAL, UH, MR. CARROLL. I'M SURE WE'LL BE TALKING TO YOU GUYS ABOUT THAT. UM, NEXT [A. Texas APA Conference October 21st and 22nd in Bryan/College Station.] ITEM, COMMENTS FROM COMMISSION LEGAL COUNSEL, STAFF ITEM SIX. UM, TEXAS DIRECTOR CRANE. YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE FIRST TWO ITEMS POSTED. SORRY, NO, GO AHEAD. DIDN'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF THERE. A AND B. UM, YES. A UH, JUST A REMINDER, TEXAS A PA CONFERENCE COMING UP, UH, WE'RE BASICALLY DOWN TO LAST MINUTE, SO IF YOU WANT TO GO, LET US KNOW SO WE CAN GET YOU REGISTERED. UH, FOR THOSE THAT AREN'T FAMILIAR, UH, STATE LAW RECENTLY CHANGED REGARDING POSTING OF AN AGENDA. AND WE REQUIRES, CHAZ, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT IT REQUIRES A MINIMUM OF THREE DAYS, RIGHT? BUSINESS DAYS, THREE BUSINESS DAYS. THEY POSTED DAYS. YES. OKAY. SO THREE BUSINESS DAYS, THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE THE DAY IT'S POSTED AND DOESN'T INCLUDE THE MEETING. AND SO, UH, THAT ALSO EXCLUDES HOLIDAYS. SO WHAT YOU'RE GONNA SEE IS [04:10:01] YOU'RE GONNA SEE US SHIFT AND PIVOT TO RES BE RESPONSIVE TO THAT. AND YOU'RE ACTUALLY SEE THE AGENDA POSTED, BUT MAYBE NOT THE MATERIALS. OUR GOAL IS TO POST BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE US A WHILE TO GET THERE. SO TYPICALLY WE'D HAVE TO POST ON A TUESDAY THEN AND ALLOW WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY MM-HMM . BEFORE THE MONDAY MEETING. YEP. JOSH, IT'S GONNA BE ASKED HAVE THAT MUCH TIME. UM, THAT TOOK EFFECT SEPTEMBER 1ST, I'M GUESSING. YES, SIR. ALRIGHT. [B. Agenda posting deadline update.] UM, THAT BRINGS UP SOMETHING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT. CAN WE GET AT THE NEXT MEETING, UH, AN UPDATE ON WHAT LAWS PASSED THE LEGISLATURE THIS LAST SESSION THAT IMPACT MUNICIPALITIES LIKE BERNIE? I KNOW HOUSE BILL 24 IS A CONCERN I HAVE. UH, WITH RESPECT TO ZONING CHANGES. I THINK IT'D BE HELPFUL FOR US TO KNOW WHAT WAS APPROVED AND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR US. OKAY. MOVING FORWARD, IF MR. MCCAMEY, YOU COULD PREPARE SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THE NEXT MEETING, THAT'D BE HELPFUL. GENERAL FOR THE CITY, AND I CAN, THAT'D BE VERY HELPFUL FOR PLANNING AND ZONING. THANK YOU. CHANGES ON MOBILE HOME REGULATIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT. UM, TYLER KANE? YES. THIS IS HER LAST MS. KANE. HAS SHE? OH, SHE LEFT. SHE GOTTA STEP OUT. OKAY. SHE'S THE, SHE'S BOTH HER LAST. SHE'S GOING OFF TO START A DUDE RANCH CONSTRUCTING AND EVERYTHING. MANAGE IT, OPERATE IT, EARN HER HUSBAND. SO CONGRATULATIONS TO HER. UM, ANY OTHER ITEMS THAT YOU HAVE, MR. FRANK? NO, SIR. I'VE GOT ONE OTHER ONE, SIR. UH, AS I WANT TO DO, UM, WHENEVER ONE OF OUR, EITHER MEMBER OF THIS BODY OR CITY STAFF, UH, RECEIVES AN AWARD, AND I WANNA POINT OUT THAT MR. MCCAMEY, UH, WAS NAMED A 2025 AMICUS AWARD RECIPIENT BY THE INTERNATIONAL MUNICIPAL LAWYERS ASSOCIATION, PLACING HIM AMONG 55, ONLY 55 ATTORNEYS NATIONWIDE HONORED FOR THEIR PRO BONO CONTRIBUTIONS. SO, UM, MR. KAMI, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU TRIP TO DC AND HONOR WELL DESERVED THERE WE'RE. AND WITH THAT, WE STAND FINALLY ADJOURNED. THANK YOU EVERYONE. AWESOME. IS THAT A RECORD? WE DIDN'T EVEN MAKE 11. WHAT? NO. 11 O'CLOCK. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.