* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [1. CALL TO ORDER – 5:30 PM] [00:00:04] GOOD TO GO AHEAD AND CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER AND WELCOME EVERYBODY. TODAY, I THINK FIRST ON [2. ADMINISTER OATH OF OFFICE FOR NEW ALTERNATE MEMBER LAURA AVERY.] THE AGENDA IS TO SWEAR IN MS. LAURA AVERY. WELCOME LAURA TO THE BOARD. YEP. UH, IF YOU COULD RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND REPEAT AFTER ME. I STATE YOUR NAME. I, LAURA AVERY. DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL FAITHFULLY EXECUTE, THAT I'LL FAITHFULLY EXECUTE THE DUTIES OF THE OFFICE, THE DUTIES OF THE OFFICE, OF THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, THE BOOK, ITS ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE, FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE, OF THE STATE OF TEXAS. THE STATE OF TEXAS. AND WILL TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY AND WILL TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, PRESERVE, PROTECT, AND DEFEND, PRESERVE, PROTECT, AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION. CONSTITUTION AND THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES. AND THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES. AND OF THE STATE. AND OF THE STATE. SO HELP ME GOD. SO HELP ME GOD. THANK YOU. I'LL GO AHEAD AND [4. DESIGNATE VOTING MEMBERS] DESIGNATE THE VOTING MEMBERS TONIGHT. UH, ALL THE REGULAR MEMBERS ARE HERE, SO THEY ARE DESIGNATED AS SUCH. [5. APPROVE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 1, 2025] UM, THE NEXT IS TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 1ST. I CAN'T DO THAT 'CAUSE I WAS NOT THERE. SO DO I HAVE, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE. I'LL SECOND I VOTE. OKAY. IT HAS BEEN APPROVED. SO, [6. PUBLIC COMMENTS] UH, MR. MANN, I BELIEVE YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING TODAY. YEAH. THANK YOU MR. BERGMAN. THE, UH, A LITTLE BIT OF HOUSEKEEPING TONIGHT. WE'VE GOT A FULL BOARD HERE TONIGHT, UH, THREE OR THREE OR TWO OR THREE NEWER MEMBERS THAT HAVE NOT DEALT WITH APPEALS BEFORE, AND WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE TONIGHT. SO, JUST A LITTLE BIT OF HOUSEKEEPING. NUMBER ONE, THE BOARD HEARS TWO TYPES OF ACTIONS REQUESTS ON VARIANCES TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU HEAR 99% OF THE TIME. UH, A PASSING A VARIANCE REQUIRES A SUPER MAJORITY VOTE. IN THIS CASE OF A FIVE MEMBER BOARD. THAT MEANS FOUR OR FIVE OF YOU HAVE TO VOTE TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE FOR IT TO PASS. HOWEVER, AN APPEAL TO, UH, TO A CITY OFFICIAL OR CITY STAFF DECISION ONLY REQUIRES A SIMPLE MAJORITY, WHICH MEANS THAT APPEAL COULD BE GRANTED IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO WITH A THREE-FIFTHS VOTE. SO IT TAKES FOUR TO APPROVE A VARIANCE, BUT ONLY THREE TO APPROVE AN APPEAL. SO THAT MIGHT GET CONFUSING FOR SOME. UH, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU COULD HAVE A SIMPLE MAJORITY SAY YES ON AN APPEAL. OH, NOT A VARIANCE, BUT THEN IT TECHNICALLY STILL FAILS IF IT'S ONLY THREE TO TWO. CORRECT? IT SEEMED TO PASS, BUT IT, BUT IT REQUIRES A FOUR FIFTHS VOTE TO PASS ON A VARIANCE APPEAL IS SIMPLE. THREE-FIFTHS OF VOTE. OKAY. UH, AND THEN I THINK YOU'VE GOT YOUR FIVE VOTING MEMBERS AND THEN THREE, THREE ALTERNATES THAT WILL PROBABLY PARTICIPATE BUT WON'T VOTE. SO I HOPE SO. SO JUST TO, JUST TO BE CLEAR, EVEN IF YOU ARE AN ALTERNATE, UH, YOUR NEIGHBORS, UH, HERE IN BERNIE, YOU ARE ON THE BOARD AND, UH, SO WE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU. I DO LIKE TO GO AROUND THE, THE KIND OF THE TABLE AND ASK FOR OPINIONS AND, AND QUESTIONS. SO, COOL. SO, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS. UH, THIS IS . THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR VISITORS AND GUESTS TO ADDRESS THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS ON ANY ISSUE IN COMPLIANCE WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE SECTION 5 5 1 0.007. THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS AND APPEALS MAY NOT DISCUSS ANY PRESENTED ISSUE NOR MAKE ANY ACTION TAKEN ON ANY ISSUE AT THIS TIME. SO WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO COME UP AND TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON TONIGHT? NO. OKAY. EXCELLENT. [Items 7 & 8] I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARINGS TONIGHT. AS MR. MANN STATED, THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT, UH, PUBLIC HEARINGS TONIGHT. WHAT WE WILL DO IS WE'LL GO THROUGH, UH, VARIANCE NUMBER TWO FIVE DASH ZERO SIX TOWER AT BERNIE SUBDIVISION LOT THREE, AND WE'LL DISCUSS THE COMMENTS AND THEN WE'LL CLOSE OUT, UH, THE PUBLIC HEARING. AND THEN WE'LL GO AND OPEN, UH, THE PUBLIC HEARING ON APPEAL NUMBER 25 DASH ZERO SEVEN IRONS AND GRAMS. UM, SO IF WE COULD, LET'S GO AHEAD AND, AND OPEN IT FOR NUMBER 25 DASH ZERO SIX. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BEN SIMMONS. I'M A MEMBER OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND WE'LL BE PRESENTING THIS ITEM TONIGHT. I DO FIRST WE'LL LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND OF THE PROPERTY. UH, THE APPLICANT IS CAROLYN MCDONALD. SHE'S NOT HERE TODAY, BUT A MEMBER OF HER TEAM IS HERE TODAY. [00:05:01] UM, THE OWNER IS NINE ZERO LLC. THE PROPERTY IS APPROXIMATELY 1.387 ACRES IS ZONED. C3 IS PART OF THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT AND IS ADDRESSED AS 1591 SOUTH MAIN STREET. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO ALLOW ONSITE PARKING TO BE UP TO THREE FEET, TWO INCHES FROM A RESIDENTIAL ZONED LOT. THIS IS A ZONING MAP OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS SHOWN IN YELLOW AND AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, IS ZONED C3 COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL AND IS WITHIN THE SCENIC INTERSTATE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT. THIS REQUEST WAS NOTICED IN THE BERNIE STAR AND MAILED THE PROPERTIES WITHIN 500 FEET OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. NO RESPONSES TO THAT NOTICE WERE RECEIVED. UH, IN ADDITION TO THE NOTICE, A LETTER WAS SUPPLIED FROM THE OWNER OF THE ABUTTING, UH, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, WAIVING THEIR RIGHT TO THE 15 FOOT BUFFER AND SUPPORTING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PARCEL. THIS VARIANCE REQUEST RELATES TO UDC SECTION FIVE DASH SIX B 3D, WHICH STATES NO PARKING OR DRIVE AISLE SHALL BE NEARER THAN 15 FEET TO ANY ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL LOT OR 10 FEET FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY OF ANY PUBLIC ROAD. ADDITIONALLY, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IF THIS PROPERTY WERE ABUTTING A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, THE 15 FOOT BUFFER WOULD NOT APPLY, BUT THE 10 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY BUFFER WOULD, THIS IS AN IMAGE OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY AND THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP. THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS SHOWN WITH THE DOT AND THE YELLOW BOX. UH, THE RED ON THE MAP DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS AUTO ORIENTED COMMERCIAL. THE AUTO ORIENTED COMMERCIAL CLASSIFICATION IS TYPICALLY LOCATED ON OUR HIGHER ORDER STREETS, SUCH AS ARTERIALS AND IS INTENDED TO SUPPORT FUTURE COMMERCIAL USES. THIS DESIGNATION IS IMPORTANT FOR THE THIS PROPERTY AS IT SHOWS WHAT THE CITY AND VISIONS FOR THIS AREA IN THE FUTURE. THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP IS PART OF A PLAN ADOPTED BY CITY COUNCIL THAT SETS A LONG-TERM VISION FOR THE FUTURE LAND USE WITHIN THE CITY. THE LONG-TERM VISION FOR THIS AREA IS COMMERCIAL ORIENTED. GIVEN THIS DESIGNATION, WE CAN SEE THAT THE CITY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THIS AREA UTILIZED FOR COMMERCIAL ORIENTED OPERATIONS IN THE FUTURE. AGAIN, IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT IF THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, THAT THE SUBJECT PROPERTY A BUS, IS REZONED TO A COMMERCIAL DESIGNATION IN THE FUTURE. AS INDICATED BY THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN, THE 15 FOOT BUFFER WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED, ONLY THE 10 FOOT BUFFER WOULD BE REQUIRED. SOME ADDITIONAL CONSTRAINTS THAT APPLY TO THIS PROPERTY ARE RELATED TO STEEP SLOPE, AS WELL AS THE CONFIGURATION OF THE LOT. THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY HAS SOME STEEP SLOPE ALONG THE PORTION OF THE LOT THAT THE SUBJECT PROPERTY ABUTS. THIS WOULD MAKE IT DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP IN THIS AREA IN THE FUTURE. THE LOT IS ALSO THE LAST PARTIAL TO BE DEVELOPED AS PART OF A LARGER PLA AND HAS AN UNUSUAL CONFIGURATION. THESE FACTORS AFFECT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS LOT AND IN TURN, THE PARKING LAYOUT AND DESIGN. THIS IS A SITE PLAN THAT SHOWS THE PROPOSED CONFIGURATION OF THE PARKING LOT, THE CLOUDED AREAS WITH ARROWS, UM, SHOW WHERE THE PARKING STALL AND DRIVE AISLES ARE NEARER THAN 15 FEET FROM THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE ARE THREE AREAS HERE, HERE AND HERE, UM, THAT ARE CLOSER THAN THE REQUIRED 15 FEET FROM THE ADJACENT RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. YOU CAN ALSO SEE THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT OF THE LOT HERE IS THE PICKLEBALL COURTS, UH, INDOOR SOCCER FIELD, DINING AREA, RESTAURANT, OR KITCHEN, SORRY. THIS IS A TABLE THAT SHOWS THE PROJECTED PARKING CALCULATIONS. UH, IT SHOWS ONE SPACE PER PLAYER FOR THE PICKLEBALL COURTS, ONE SPACE PER PLAYER FOR THE SOCCER FIELD, ONE SPACE PER 100 SQUARE FEET FOR THE DINING AREA, AND ONE SPACE PER 300 SQUARE FEET FOR THE KITCHEN WITH A TOTAL OF 58 PARKING SPACES. THESE ARE STAFF ANALYSIS OF THE FINDINGS OF FACT. THE FIRST IS UNNECESSARY HARDSHIP, INCLUDING FINANCIAL HARDSHIP. THIS PROJECT DOES NOT APPEAR TO MEET FINANCIAL HARDSHIP STIPULATIONS, UH, AS NOTED EARLIER IN THE PROPERTY, AS THE LAST LOT OF A LARGER PLAT TO BE DEVELOPED HAS AN UNUSUAL CONFIGURATION AND STEEP SLOPE. TWO IS NO CHANGE IN USE. UH, THE VARIANCE WILL NOT AUTHORIZE ANY USE OTHER THAN THE USES THE ZONING DISTRICT AND OVERLAY ALREADY ALLOW. THREE IS UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES RELATED TO THE PROPERTY AND GENERAL CONDITIONS. UH, THE LOT IS ALLOWED TO BE DEVELOPED AS PART OF A LARGER PLAT HAS AN UNUSUAL CONFIGURATION AND STEEP SLOPE ON THE NEIGHBORING RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. FOUR IS, DOES NOT WEAKEN THE GENERAL PURPOSE OF ORDINANCE AND ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT. THIS VARIANCE WOULD NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT AND IT HELPS TO ACHIEVE THE LONG-TERM GOALS FOR THIS AREA AS SET BY CITY COUNCIL. FIVE IS NO ADVERSE IMPACT ON PUBLIC HEALTH WELFARE AND SAFETY. THIS VARIANCE WILL NOT NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, OR WELFARE. STAFF RECOMMENDS THAT [00:10:01] THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS HOLD THE PUBLIC HEARING AND DETERMINE IF THE CRITERIA FOR A VARIANCE HAVE BEEN MET AND APPROVE OR DENY THE VARIANCE REQUEST FROM CAROLYN MCDONALD AND NINE ZERO LLC REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO THE CITY OF BURN UDC CHAPTER FIVE, SECTION 5.6 TO ALLOW FOR ONSITE PARKING TO BE UP TO THREE FEET, TWO INCHES FROM A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY INSTEAD OF THE REQUIRED 15 FEET. UM, WITH THAT I WILL YIELD BACK TO THE COMMISSION. I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION THE APPLICANT HAS A PRESENTATION AS WELL. I DON'T KNOW IF WE WANT TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT AND THEN HAVE QUESTIONS OR QUESTIONS AND THEN THE APPLICANT, I THINK IF ANYBODY HAS A QUESTION. OKAY, WE CAN GO AHEAD AND ASK HIM RIGHT NOW. DOES ANYBODY NO. OKAY, THEN FOR SURE. OKAY, BRING HIM UP. I'LL NOW INVITE THE APPLICANT UP. ALRIGHT, THANK YOU. WHERE'S MY PRESENTATION? AH, HERE. IT'S OKAY. HELLO EVERYONE. UH, MY NAME IS VANESSA WARDS FROM BROWN MCDONALD. UH, IF YOU WANT MY ADDRESS, IT'S 100 NORTHEAST LOOP FOUR 10 SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS. UH, CAROLINE MCDONALD IS THE APPLICANT, HOWEVER, SHE'S ON MATERNITY LEAVE, SO I AM HERE IN HER PLACE. UH, SO I HOPE YOU ACCEPT ME AS A REPLACEMENT. THANK YOU. SO, UH, AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS IS FOR, UH, PARKING VARIANCE ON THE NORTHWEST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY. UM, IN THAT CORNER THERE YOU HAVE SEEN, WHOOPS, SORRY, Y'ALL, THERE WE GO. SO YOU HAVE SEEN THE LOCATION, UM, NEAR BUSINESS 87 IN SOUTH MAINE. IT'S THE THIRD LOT IN THIS DEVELOPMENT HERE. UH, THE PROPOSED PROPERTY USE IS FOR A RECREATIONAL PICKLEBALL FACILITY, MEMBERSHIP CLUB STYLE FACILITY, UH, WITH SIX COURTS AND A SMALL INDOOR SOCCER FIELD AND A SMALL DINING AREA FOR PLAYERS TO RELAX AND HAVE FUN. THIS SUBJECT PROPERTY IS THE THIRD LOT AND A PLOT THAT WAS PLANTED IN 2005. UH, LOTS, ONE AND TWO WERE SUBSEQUENTLY DEVELOPED, BUT THIS LOT WAS NOT. UM, AS SO AS SUCH, IT'S BEEN HARDER TO DEVELOP THIS PROPERTY IN LINE, UH, WITH THE CODE. BUT WE HAVE WORKED WITH THE CITY FOR OVER A YEAR AND WE'RE ENSURING THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A COMPLIANT AND COHESIVE DEVELOPMENT AND NOT NEGATIVELY AFFECT OUR NEIGHBORS WITHIN THE SAME PLAT. UH, WE ARE RESPECTFULLY REQUESTING A VARIANCE, UM, AS HE MENTIONED FROM UDC SECTION FIVE DASH SIX 3D FOR THESE SIX PARKING SPACES. UM, HE DID POINT OUT THE DRIVE AISLES. UM, THOSE HAVE NOT COME UP IN CONVERSATION WITH THE CITY, UM, AS BEING AN ISSUE. IT WAS ONLY THESE SIX SPACES. UH, AND WE ARE ASKING RESPECTFULLY FOR AN 11 FOOT, 10 INCH VARIANCE TO ALLOW THE PARKING SPACES TO BE THREE FEET AND TWO INCHES AWAY FROM THE ABUTTING PROPERTY. UH, OUR REQUIRED PARKING SPACES ARE 58 SPACES FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT. UH, WITHOUT THESE SIX SPACES, THE PARKING PLAN DOES NOT WORK. UM, SO IF THIS VARIANCE IS NOT APPROVED TODAY, UH, WE ARE NOT SURE WHERE WE GO FROM HERE, TO BE HONEST. UM, THIS, THIS PROJECT MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO PROCEED BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE NO ALTERNATIVE FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES. AS YOU'VE SEEN, THE LOT IS IN IRREGULAR SHAPE. IT'S A LITTLE BIT SMALLER. UH, WE DON'T HAVE, UH, ROAD ACCESS FROM OUR LOT. WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT TO GET TO THE ROAD. AND SO ALL THESE THINGS TOGETHER AFFECT OUR PARKING LAYOUT. AS MENTIONED, THE HARDSHIP RIGHT HERE, OH, I'M SORRY, I SKIPPED PROJECT SUPPORT. UH, WE DO HAVE PROJECT SUPPORT FROM THE NEIGHBOR. UH, IT IS A RESIDENTIAL LOT, BUT IT IS VERY, FAIRLY LARGE AND IT'S MOSTLY PASTURE LAND. THERE IS A HOME TOWARDS THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY. UM, BUT THESE SPACES WILL NOT AFFECT ANY RESIDENTIAL USE OF THAT PROPERTY. AND AS HE MENTIONED IN HIS PRESENTATION WHERE THE SPOTS ARE LOCATED, IT'S SLOPES DOWNWARD RIGHT THERE, AND IT GOES UNDER SOUTH MAINE. SO IT'S UNREASONABLE TO DEVELOP ANYTHING THERE. THERE WILL NEVER BE A HOME IN THAT SECTION OF THE PROPERTY OR ANY DEVELOPMENT REALLY. SO THESE SPACES WILL NOT AFFECT THE NEIGHBOR AT ALL. BACK TO HARDSHIP AND THANK YOU. AND I'M HERE FOR QUESTIONS AND I DO HAVE THE ARCHITECT AND THE BUILDER HERE AS WELL, IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS FOR THOSE ITEMS. THANK YOU. I'VE GOT A QUESTION. SURE. UM, DO ANY OF THE EXISTING PARKING SPACES, UM, THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THE REST OF THAT DEVELOPMENT THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DEVELOPED, UM, CAN THEY COUNT TOWARD YOUR TOTAL AT ALL OR ARE THEY SPECIFICALLY FOR THE EXISTING BUSINESSES? THEY ARE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE EXISTING BUSINESSES. THEY CANNOT COUNT TOWARDS OUR TOTAL. OKAY. [00:15:03] THE ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT WAS DONE IN 1985, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID, AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY THE OTHER TWO. THE OTHER ONE, UH, 2005 IS THE ORIGINAL PLA. OH, 2005. YES. SORRY. AND THEN ARE, IS IT THE ORIGINAL OWNER THAT'S OWNED ALL THREE OF THESE PLATS THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT? NO, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL OWNERS AND I THINK EVEN RECENTLY, UH, ONE OF THE LOTS CHANGED OWNERSHIP AS WELL. SO IT'S BEEN SEEN SEVERAL OWNERS THROUGHOUT. OKAY. THERE ARE, AND AS YOU, I, I BELIEVE YOU NOTED THE DRIVES, ARE THOSE TOO CLOSE AS WELL, OR DO THOSE IMPEDE THE, SO IF THEY WOULD BE, UH, CLOSER THAN THE REQUIRED 15 FEET BUFFER, UM, AS YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED IN OUR REQUEST LANGUAGE, WE SAID UP TO THREE FEET, TWO INCHES. UH, THE DRIVE AISLES ARE FURTHER THAN THE PARKING SPACE, BUT THIS VARIANCE WOULD, WOULD COVER THE DRIVE AISLES AS WELL AS THE PARKING SPACES. OKAY. THANK GOODNESS, . OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO THERE'S A DASHED LINE ON THAT ONE DIAGRAM THAT SHOWED THE PARKING SPACES NUMBER FIVE. WOULD THAT BE THE 15 FEET? YES. THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE PROPERTY LINE, AND SO THESE SPACES WOULD HAVE TO BE 15 FEET FROM THIS LINE. IT, I KNOW IT'S A VERY, UH, DETAILED, YOU CAN SEE IT BETTER ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, I THINK. YES. YEAH, GO TO THE, YEAH. SO THERE'S A DASH Y IT GOES ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE SIX PARKING SPACES. IS THAT THE 15? NO, SIR. OH, NO, THAT'S JUST THE MARK OF WHERE, UH, THE PARKING SPACES END, I BELIEVE. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. GO AHEAD. THE, IT'S THE FIRE. OH, IT'S THE FIRE LANE. YES. SO THE, THE REQUEST STATES TO ALLOW ONSITE PARKING TO BE UP TO THREE FEET, TWO INCHES. UM, WE TALKED ABOUT THE DRIVES AS WELL AS IF THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE CALLED, BUT THIS WOULD COVER THAT AS WELL. THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED, BUT IT WOULD NOT DECREASE THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT FOR THE STRUCTURE ITSELF. JUST JUST THE PARKING. CORRECT. LAURA, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YOU HAVE A QUESTION? I DO NOT HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. NO, I DON'T. NOPE. WE'RE ALL GOOD. PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. MM-HMM . ALL RIGHT. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND THANK YOU. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND CLOSE OUT THIS PUBLIC HEARING. MR. BERGMAN, YOU MAY WANT TO SEE IF ANYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE WANTS TO SPEAK THAT'S NOT FOR OR AGAINST BEFORE I CLOSE OUT THE PUBLIC MEETING. , IS THERE ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND COMMENT? IF YOU WOULD, UH, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND THEN GO RIGHT AHEAD. OH, COOL. JUST SO THAT YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DID SOMETHING. MY NAME IS BEN ADAM, I'M AN ARCHITECT . I CURRENTLY LIVE AT ONE 15 JAMES STREET, SIXTH GENERATION BERNIE. UM, BOY. SO, UH, UH, THIS IS A, A NEW WORLD FOR US. THE UDC? YES. UM, SO A COUPLE CLARIFICATIONS. THE PARKING RATIOS FOR THIS PROJECT ARE NOT IN THE UDC, SO WE ASKED FOR AN INTERPRETATION FROM THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, AND THEY, THEY GAVE US THAT FOR AN INDOOR SS FACILITY LIKE THIS, THAT WE WOULD HAVE FOUR PARKING PLACES FOR EACH PICKLEBALL COURT MAKING THE ASSUMPTION THAT EACH PERSON WOULD COME IN THEIR OWN CAR. IF IT HAD BEEN OUTDOOR, THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES WOULD'VE BEEN REDUCED BY 20. JUST TO GIVE YOU A FEEL FOR IT, BECAUSE WE HAVE IN THE UDC AN EXERCISE CATEGORY THAT WOULD ALLOW 800 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE FOR ONE PARKING SPOT. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT DOES CHANGE THE PARKING RATIOS. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY ADDRESSED. SO IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SURPRISE TO US AT THE END. THAT'S WHY WE ADDED MORE PARKING. UM, THE LAST THING ABOUT THE DRIVES, THE DRIVE THAT'S ON THE FAR NORTH EAST END, THAT'S CLOSER TO THE DRIVE. THE REASON THAT IT GOES THERE NOT IS JUST BACK OUT, BUT IT'S AN ACTUAL, THE FIRE MARSHAL [00:20:01] SAID HE'D LIKE TO HAVE ACCESS SURE. SO THAT IF ANYTHING EVER HAPPENED AT MRS. MINE'S PROPERTY TO THE NORTH, THAT THEY'D HAVE AN EASY WAY IN AND OUT. OKAY. SO IT, IT GIVES, IT'S THE ONLY OTHER WAY TO GET IN AND OUT. THAT'S THAT 37 ACRE TRACT OF LAND TO THE NORTH CURRENTLY HAS SOME BAD ACCESS. SO ANYWAY, I JUST GIVE YOU ONE MORE PIECE OF FACTS. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. THANKS, BEN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MR. ADAMS. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? GOING ONCE, TWICE. NICE. OKAY. LEMME CLOSE OUT. CLOSING OUT, UH, PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER 25 0 6 OR THE VARIANCE FOR 25 0 6. WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND OPEN IT UP NOW FOR THE APPEAL NUMBER 25 0 7 IRONS AND GRAMS EDITION LOT 65 2 0 2 YELLOW STREET. PLEASE JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND CERTAINLY. GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING. MY NAME'S STEVE RIGGS. I'M THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL. OUR DEPARTMENT, UH, IS, UH, PERMITTING AND CODE COMPLIANCE IS TASKED WITH ENFORCING BUILDING AND ZONING CODES AS REGULATED BY, UH, THE UDC AND THE MUNICIPAL BUILDING CODES. THE ISSUANCE OF PERMITS IS THE MAIN REVIEW AND ENFORCEMENT TOOL. FOR THIS PURPOSE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING AN APPEAL TO MY DECISION THAT A STRUCTURE IN FRONT OF THE GARAGE PARKED OVER EXISTING GARAGE, PROVIDING A ROOF, UM, AS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, DOES NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT AND THEREFORE, UH, NOT SUBJECT TO PERMITTING. TONIGHT I WILL BE EXPLAINING THAT ALL ACCESSORY STRUCTURES REQUIRE A PERMIT, AND THE DIFFERENT USES OF A STRUCTURE HAVE DIFFERENT CODE REQUIREMENTS, AS WELL AS WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR SAFETY. AND AS THIS SLIDE, YOU CAN SEE THAT IT'S AT, UH, LOCATIONS AT 2 0 2 YOA, WHICH IS ZONED R TWO DASH M UH, MEDIUM RESIDENTIAL DENSITY. NEXT, UH, TIMELINE. ON MARCH 28TH, 2025, THE CITY'S CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OBSERVED AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BEING USED AS A CARPORT AT 2 0 2 YOA WITHOUT A PERMIT BEING ISSUED. A NOTICE OF VIOLATION WAS SUBSEQUENTLY ISSUED, CITING THE INSTALLATION OF A CARPORT WITHOUT A PERMIT ON APRIL 10TH, 2025. UH, AN ACCESSORY PERMIT APPLICATION, WHICH IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN, UH, FOR A SHADE STRUCTURE, WAS SUBMITTED FOR THIS PROPERTY ON MAY 8TH, 2025. THE APPLICATION WAS FOUND TO BE DEFICIENT BY CITY STAFF, UH, UNDER UDC SECTION 3.6, UH, BECAUSE THE PROPOSED LOCATION DIDN'T MEET MINIMUM SETBACKS. A COUPLE OF CODE DEFINITIONS FROM THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE THAT I BELIEVE IS, IS, ARE RELEVANT HERE IS A DEFINITION OF A STRUCTURE, IS THAT WHICH IS BUILT OR CONSTRUCTED, THAT WOULD INCLUDE ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. UH, AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS, IS ACCESSORY TO AN IN INCIDENTAL TO THAT OF THE DWELLINGS. AND THAT IS LOCATED ON THE SAME LOT. A PATIO COVER OR, OR PERGOLA IN THIS CASE IS A STRUCTURE WITH AN OPEN OR GLAZED WALLS THAT IS USED FOR RECREATIONAL OUTDOOR LIVING PURPOSES ASSOCIATED WITH THE DWELLING UNIT. AND THEN A ROOF ASSEMBLY, WHICH, UH, CARPORT ESSENTIALLY IS, IS A SYSTEM DESIGNED TO PROVIDE WEATHER PROTECTION AND RESISTANCE TO DESIGN LOADS. THE SYSTEM CONSISTS OF ROOF COVERING AND DECK, OR A SINGLE COMPONENT SERVING AS THE ROOF COVERING OF THAT DECK. SOME OF THE CODE REFERENCES THAT ARE RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION IS ONE R 1 0 5 0.1, WHICH REQUIRES PERMITS, UM, TO CONSTRUCT, ENLARGE, ALTER, REPAIR, MOVE, [00:25:01] DEMOLISH, OR CHANGE THE OCCUPANCY OF A BUILDING OR STRUCTURE. NEXT, UH, IS CHAPTER THREE OF THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE IS, UH, WHAT REQUIRES BUILDINGS TO MEET CERTAIN DESIGN LOADS. UH, THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE HERE WOULD BE A WIND LOAD. UH, ALL ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ARE REQUIRED TO MEET MINIMUM, UH, WIND LOADS. GARAGES AND CARPORTS ARE BOTH ADDRESSED IN THAT SAME SECTION OF CHAPTER THREE OF, UH, IRC. AND AGAIN, IN, UH, IBC CARPORTS SHALL BE OPEN ON NOT LESS THAN TWO SIDES. CARPORT FLOORS SHALL BE OF APPROVED NON-COMBUSTIBLE MATERIAL CARPORTS NOT OPEN ONTO, UH, OR MORE SIDES ARE CONSIDERED A GARAGE AND SHALL COMPLY WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION FOR GARAGES. NOW, THERE IS ALSO AN APPENDIX, AH, IN THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE THAT IS SPECIFIC TO PATIO COVERS. PATIO COVERS DETACHED FROM OR ATTACHED TO DWELLING UNITS SHALL BE USED ONLY FOR RECREATIONAL OUTDOOR LIVING PURPOSES AND NOT AS CARPORTS GARAGES, STORAGE ROOMS OR HABITABLE ROOMS. SO THEY DON'T MEET THE SAME STANDARDS THAT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE THAT, UH, YOU COULD PARK A CAR UNDER WOULD, WOULD HAVE TO MEET. THIS IS THE STRUCTURE IN QUESTION. UH, THESE PICTURES WERE TAKEN LAST WEEK ON NOVEMBER 13TH. UM, THEY'RE MANUFACTURED BY A COMPANY CALLED MIRADOR AS PERGOLAS, AND THEY ACTUALLY HAVE A ROOF STRUCTURE THAT OPENS AND CLOSES, UH, LIKE A WINDOW SHADE, FINDING A FACT. PATIO COVERS CARPORTS AND ROOF ASSEMBLIES ARE ADDRESSED IN THE IRC AND CONSIDERED ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. BUILDING COATS ARE APPLIED TO ACCESSORY STRUCTURES BASED ON USE AND OCCUPANCY OF THE BUILDING, OR A STRUCTURE. A STRUCTURE WITH TWO SIDES ARE LESS, UH, IN A ROOF, CONSTITUTES A CARPORT. THE IRC REQUIRES A MINIMUM DESIGN LOAD FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, BUT ALLOWS A LESS STRINGENT REQUIREMENT FOR PATIO COVERS, BUT LIMITS THEIR USE. PERMITS ARE A NECESSARY TOOL FOR ENFORCING THE BILLING CODE REQUIREMENTS, AS WELL AS THE ZONING, UH, CODE REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDC MOTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION OF AN APPEAL ARE, ARE FAIRLY SIMPLE. YOU CAN MOVE THAT THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS DENY THE APPEAL, UM, REQUESTING AN APPEAL TO THE IRC, SECTION R 1 0 5 0.1, WHICH REQUIRES PERMITS, UH, OR YOU CAN APPROVE THE APPEAL, UM, RULING THAT HE DOESN'T NEED A PERMIT FOR THE, FOR THIS STRUCTURE. AND WITH THAT, I YIELD. THANK YOU. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I HAVE A QUESTION. UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE PERMIT WAS APPLIED FOR AND WAS DENIED. UM, WAS IT, WAS IT APPLIED FOR CORRECTLY UNDER THE, THE CORRECT TYPE OF STRUCTURE OR, I KNOW YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THE SETBACK. IT WAS APPLIED FOR UNDER AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. UM, UH, THEY CALLED IT, HE CALLED IT A, A DRIVEWAY SHADE STRUCTURE. UM, BUT IT, IT, IT'S UNDER THE ACCESSORY, UH, STRUCTURE PERMIT. YES. OKAY. AND THE REASON THAT IT WAS FOUND TO BE DEFICIENT WAS BECAUSE WHERE IT WAS LOCATED IN THE DRIVEWAY, UM, ENCROACHED INTO A SETBACK, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. OKAY. AND IT ALSO, UH, DIDN'T MEET, UH, CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS, UH, REQUIRED OF CARPORTS OR CARPORTS. OKAY. AND SO WHAT ABOUT THE LO THERE WAS SOME MENTION OF LOCATING IT IN, IN MORE THAN ONE SPOT ON THE PROPERTY BEING, UM, THAT YOU COULD MOVE IT AROUND IT, IT WOULD STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS. UM, BASICALLY, UH, THE TWO STRUCTURES TOGETHER AS THEY ARE NOW, UM, [00:30:01] UH, CONSTITUTE 260 SQUARE FEET. UM, IF THEY WERE SEPARATED, IT, UH, IT MAY BE DIFFERENT, BUT THE UDC ALSO HAS REQUIREMENTS, UH, FOR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES LIMITING THE NUMBER OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ON A LOT, UH, AND ALSO, UH, THE AMOUNT OF IMPERVIOUS COVER THAT YOU CAN ADD TO A LOT. UH, AND SO THOSE ARE ALSO ADDRESSING ADDRESSED THROUGH THE PERMITTING, UH, AND CODE COMPLIANCE. OKAY. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . QUICK QUESTION ON THE PATIO STRUCTURE. YES, SIR. IT SPECIFICALLY DOESN'T MEET THE WIND LOAD FOR A CARPORT, IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTOOD? THE, UH, THE MANUFACTURER'S WEBSITE, UH, GIVES IT A WIND LOAD, UH, RATING OF 73 MILES PER HOUR. THE DESIGN WIND LOAD FOR ANY STRUCTURE, ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, UH, BUILT IN, IN KENNEL COUNTY IS 105 MILES AN HOUR. OKAY. GOOD. ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE CITY? I ACTUALLY DO. SO IF THE PERMIT IS GRANTED, WHAT TYPE OF, UH, MODIFICATIONS, ARE THERE ANY MODIFICATIONS THAT WILL NEED TO BE MADE TO LIKE GET IT UP TO THE WIN COMPLIANCE OR ANCHOR IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? UH, IT FOR, IF, IF THE UH, IF THE, YEAH, IF, IF THE APPEAL, UH, WAS, UH, GRANTED IT, THEN HE WOULDN'T NEED A PERMIT. NOW, IF THE APPEAL IS NOT GRANTED, THEN YES, HE WOULD HAVE TO CONFORM TO THE 105 MILE AN HOUR WIND LOAD. AND THIS STRUCTURE, THE MANUFACTURER IS, SAYS IT'S NOT RATED FOR THAT. OKAY. AND WHAT, WHAT WE COULD DO IN A, IN A DIFFERENT SITUATION IS YOU CAN PUT CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS, PUT CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS ON IT TO SAY, IF THERE WERE, I MEAN, IF IT WAS A, I GUESS A MORE FORMIDABLE STRUCTURE, YOU COULD ANCHOR IT WITH A BUNCH OF CEMENT AROUND THE BASE. I MEAN, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS OF DOING IT THAT WE COULD REQUIRE, BUT THERE, THERE ARE SIMILAR STRUCTURES THAT, THAT ARE AVAILABLE THAT HAVE, UH, ANCHORING REQUIREMENTS THAT MEET THAT LOAD. YEAH. MM-HMM . YEAH, BUT THE, I MEAN, THE STRUCTURE ITSELF, IT, IT MIGHT NOT BE, EVEN IF IT WERE ANCHORED DOWN THE ROOF PART, COULDN'T, MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE 105 MILE AN HOUR WIND ACCORDING TO THE MANUFACTURER, IT'S NOT IT FLYING AWAY. IT TAKES 75 MILE AN HOUR ONE TO FLY AWAY. IT'S TO CORRECT. IT MAY NOT. IT, IT, THE MANUFACTURER SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT ANY USE OTHER THAN AS A RECREATIONAL SHADE STRUCTURE, BASICALLY, UH, COULD CAUSE DAMAGE OR, OR INJURY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANYTHING GUYS? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I'M LOOKING FOR THE NAME. UH, IF THE ICE PERSON MAKING THE APPEAL WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK. I'M SORRY, I'M LOOKING FOR YOUR NAME, SIR. SO IF YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME AND LET US KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON. YES, SIR. MY NAME'S TYLER PURAN. HI TYLER. HI. UM, I'M THE RESIDENT AT 2 0 2 YONA. MY, UH, UM, HOMEOWNERS ARE JOHN AND SHE WRIGHT. UM, THEY'RE HERE. AND ALSO BEN, ADAM HERE TO, UM, ANY SUPPORTING EVIDENCE AS WELL. BUT, UM, FIRST OFF, THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TODAY. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY TWO KEY POINTS REGARDING THE CITY'S, UM, AS REFERRED TO AS A STRUCTURE. UM, THE ITEM IS NOT BUILT OR CONSTRUCTED. UM, SO ACCORDING TO THE UDC AND THE IRC IS STRUCTURE SOMETHING THAT IS BUILT AT WORK CONSTRUCTED. AND IN THIS CASE, UH, THIS, THIS QUESTION IS A, UH, OR WHAT'S IN QUESTION IS A PRE-MANUFACTURED PIECE, ALTHOUGH IT WAS DELIVERED AND ASSEMBLED, WAS NOT CONSTRUCTED IN THE SENSE OF BEING BUILT FROM RAW MATERIALS. UM, IT ARRIVED AS A MANUFACTURED PRODUCT, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING CREATED AS A PERMANENT IMPROVEMENT TO THE PROPERTY. IT FUNCTIONS MORE LIKE FURNITURE THAN A PERMANENT IMPROVEMENT. UM, ALTHOUGH IT'S BEING USED SIMILAR TO A CARPORT, UM, IT'S NOT A BUILT STRUCTURE 'CAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING, MECHANICAL CONNECTIONS. IT DOESN'T HAVE A FOUNDATION NOR PERMANENT ANCHORING. IT IS MOVABLE AND IT IS TEMPORARY. UM, AND IT'S THE MOST ACCURATE WAY TO DESCRIBE IT AS A PRE FABRICATED FURNITURE. SO [00:35:01] IT'S NOT A CONSTRUCTED STRUCTURE. IN CLOSING, MY, MY REQUEST IS SIMPLY THAT THE CITY TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS ITEM IS AS FURNITURE RATHER THAN A BUILT STRUCTURE. UM, AND TO ALLOW THIS ACCORDINGLY. UM, I'M, I'M HOPING THE BOARD DIDN'T COME HERE WITH THE DECISION WRITING IN MIND, BUT, UM, I'M HERE TO HEAR MY STATEMENT IN OPEN FOR DISCUSSION. UM, SO I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION. WHAT, WHAT WERE YOU GOING OUT TO ACCOMPLISH? I'M SORRY? WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU PURCHASED THE, THE PERGOLA, WHAT, WHAT WERE YOU, WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING TO PURCHASE? WAS IT FOR THIS PURPOSE? IT IS, AND, AND FLAT OUT, TO BE HONEST, I GOT A SMALL GARAGE. IT'S A SINGLE CAR GARAGE. MM-HMM . MY WIFE'S GOT A BIG VEHICLE, TWO, TWO YOUNG KIDS. AND IT'S, UH, IT'S MORE FOR COVERAGE AND, YOU KNOW, THE HEAT, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO, UM, PROTECT THE CAR A LITTLE BIT. AND HAVE YOU CONSIDERED PUTTING A, AN ACTUAL STRUCTURE, WHAT YOU CALLED A CONSTRUCTED STRUCTURE? UM, YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN THOUGHT ABOUT. UM, FIGURED THIS WAS KIND OF THE, THE EASIEST AND UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS MY PROBLEM, NOT YOURS, BUT YOU KNOW, I'M ALREADY MONEY IN AND WE, WE GOT IT THERE SO IT'S NOT REFUNDABLE OR RETURNABLE, SO. RIGHT. UM, SO YEAH. OKAY. AND YOU'RE THE, YOU'RE RENTING THE HOME? YES, SIR. OKAY. OH, OKAY. YEAH, THAT MAKES SENSE. THE HOMEOWNERS ARE THERE. YEAH. SO THE INTENT IS IF YOU WERE TO MOVE, YOU MIGHT TAKE THAT STRUCTURE DOWN, ABSOLUTELY. TAKE IT WITH YOU? ABSOLUTELY. IT'S ACTUALLY RELOCATED AS WE SPEAK, JUST BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION. I JUST WANTED TO SHOW THAT IT WAS MORE OF A TEMPORARY TYPE STRUCTURE AND IT'S, IT'S MOVABLE AND IF THERE'S A, AN AREA WHERE I CAN ANCHOR IT EVEN BETTER, THEN I'D BE OPEN AND WILLING TO DO THAT THAN WHAT IT IS CURRENTLY. NOW, IS IT AN ANCHORED STRUCTURE AT ALL, OR IS IT LIKE FURNITURE SITTING ON TOP OF THE GROUND? FOR SAFETY REASONS, I HAVE IT ANCHORED AND CONCRETE. SO THE WIND LOAD IS NOT AN ISSUE. IT'S NOT GONNA GET TAKEN AWAY OR CARRIED AWAY. UM, BUT IF IT, IN THE CASE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE RELOCATED, IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S ANCHORED WITH BOLTS. YOU SAID IT'S CURRENTLY RELOCATED. SO DO YOU HAVE IT IN THE BACK OF THE, THE HOUSE NOW? IS THAT BACK OF THE PROPERTY? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. UM, AND SO YOU HAVE IT ANCHORED IN THE BACK AND NOT IN THE FRONT RIGHT NOW. CORRECT. BUT YOU, PRIOR TO THAT, YOU HAD IT ANCHORED UP FRONT. YES, MA'AM. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY TAKE. OKAY. YES, MA'AM. ANY QUESTIONS? ANYBODY? IT'S THE PICTURE SHOWS IT'S IN THE FRONT, RIGHT? CORRECT. MM-HMM . THE PICTURE WAS TAKEN, BUT NOW IT'S IN THE BACK, BUT YOU'VE MOVED IT SINCE. YES, SIR. I'M GUESSING AT THE REQUEST OF THE CITY AND YEAH, I'VE BEEN CURIOUS TO, IS THE CITY GOOD WITH IT IF IT STAYS IN THE BACK? IS THAT AN OKAY PLACE TO HAVE IT? WELL, IT'S, WELL, TWO THINGS. IT'S PROBABLY, AND THE OTHER THING THAT'S, I MEAN, TO TODAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE HE WANTS, RIGHT. HOW HE WANTS TO PUT IT. AND I WILL SAY IN A LOT OF SCENARIOS WHEN THIS DOES HAPPEN, THE HOMEOWNER USUALLY JUST SIT THAT SITS IT THERE, LEAVES IT, AND SOMETIMES STARTS TALKING ABOUT WHY IT'S, YOU KNOW, WHY IT SHOULD REMAIN AND THINGS LIKE THAT. THIS WAS A HOMEOWNER THAT I WORKED, SOMEBODY WHO ACTUALLY MOVED IT, YOU KNOW? YEAH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS GOOD QUESTION, STEVE. UM, SO THE, UM, IF IT'S ANCHORED, IT, IT, IS IT STILL NOT COMPLIANT? I GUESS IT, UH, IT, IT IS WORTH NOTING. SORRY. SURE. NO PROBLEM. ALL HELPED WITH THE MINUTES. . SO , UM, IT, IT'S WORTH NOTING, UM, A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE, WE KNOW THE SPECIFICS ABOUT THE LOAD CAPACITY OF THE STRUCTURE BECAUSE THE PERMIT HAD BEEN APPLIED FOR, AND BECAUSE, UM, WE'RE HERE TONIGHT AND THAT RESEARCH HAS BEEN DONE, A PERMIT IS HOW WE NORMALLY IDENTIFY THIS INFORMATION AND ENSURE ALL OF THAT IS MET. UM, ADDITIONALLY, I WANNA POINT OUT THAT THE APPEAL TONIGHT IS IN REGARDS TO THE IRC AND THE DETERMINATION, UM, THAT A BUILDING PERMIT WAS REQUIRED BECAUSE IT IS A STRUCTURE, UH, BY OUR CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIAL. THIS IS NOT A VARIANCE. SO IT WOULD NOT CHANGE ANY SETBACK REQUIREMENTS [00:40:01] OR ANY, UH, MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES THAT ARE ALLOWED. YEAH. SO THAT BEING SAID, I DO WANNA NOTE THAT A CARPORT, UH, IS REQUIRED TO BE ONE AND A HALF TIMES BEHIND THE FRONT BUILDING LINE. SO WHERE IT IS PLACED IN THIS PHOTO, UM, IS NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED. AND WHAT'S HAPPENING TONIGHT WOULD NOT ALLOW THAT. THE ONLY THING TO CHANGE THE SETBACKS, UH, AS YOU KNOW, IS A VARIANCE GRANTED BY THIS BOARD. AND THAT WOULD BE A SEPARATE HEARING OR CONVERSATION? THAT IS CORRECT. WERE YOU MOVED TO THE BACK, ARE YOU STILL INTENDING TO USE IT AS A CARPORT? I AM INTENDING TO USE IT AS A TEMPORARY, UH, PIECE OF FURNITURE TO MOVE AROUND AS I NEED. OR PLEASE. UM, YES, THE IDEA IS TO IT, THE IDEA OR, UH, FULL TRANSPARENCY IS TO PUT IT BACK FOR, FOR THE, FOR THE SAFETY OF THE, THE VEHICLE AND THE CHILDREN. ANY MORE QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? NO. NO. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE COMMENTS? NO, SIR. NO. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE MIGHT CALL YOU BACK UP. YES, SIR. IS THERE ANYBODY BEFORE WE CLOSE THE THANK YOU, BEN. COME ON UP. , YOU ALREADY INTRODUCED YOURSELF. OKAY. VERY GOOD. UM, SO I WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BUILT AND CONSTRUCTED AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, JUST FOR A MINUTE. UM, IF THIS IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, THEN HE WOULD ONLY BE ALLOWED TO HAVE ONE. UM, AND IF SO, UM, THEORETICALLY, UM, BY SECTION R 1 0 5 0.2, WHICH IS THE SECTION RIGHT AFTER SECTION 1 0 5 0.1, THAT, UH, UH, CHIEF UH, BILLING INSPECTOR BRIGGS MENTIONED, IT SAYS, UM, UH, A ONE STORY DETACHED. THE STRUCTURE PROVIDED THAT THE FLOOR AREA IS NOT EXCEEDING 200 SQUARE FEET IS NON PERMITTED. SO IF HE JUST DID ONE UNIT THAT WAS A 10 BY 13, IT WOULDN'T EVEN BE PERMITTED AT ALL, EVEN IN THE BUILDING. AND THE NEXT QUESTION IS, IS THIS A BUILDING OR IS THIS SOMETHING ELSE? IT'S NOT DESIGNED BY AN ARCHITECT. IT'S NOT DESIGNED BY A BUILDING DESIGNER. IT'S NOT BY DESIGNED BY EVEN A STUDENT IN ARCHITECTURE SCHOOL OR AT, AT THE HIGH SCHOOL. IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S DONE AS A MANUFACTURER. IF WE USE THE TERM CONSTRUCTED AND I BUY A KIT FOR A PICNIC TABLE, I AM CONSTRUCTING AND BUILDING THAT PICNIC TABLE. I HAVE TO GET A PERMIT FROM THE CHIEF BUILDING OFFICER. IF I BUILD A DOG HOUSE FROM SCRATCH, IT IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. SO PRETTY SOON WHAT WE'VE SAID IS THAT BERNIE CAN'T HAVE A DOGHOUSE AND A CHICKEN COOP AND A CARPORT. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S THE KIND OF COMMUNITY WE WANT. SO THE REAL QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE LIMIT OF WHAT'S BUILDING AND WHAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S DIFFERENT? IF WE SAY THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS A BUILDING, THEN WE ARE BUILDING EVERY SINGLE TIME WE DO MARKET DAYS ON MAIN STREET AND WE BUILD A TEST, THOSE ARE VERY SIMILAR. AND THE WIND LOADS ARE THE SAME AND THE SAME AS THE PURPOSE THEY'RE COVERING PEOPLE. AND SAFETY IS THE SAME ISSUE. SO I'M NOT SURE WHETHER YOU GUYS WANNA MAKE THIS DECISION OR NOT, BUT THE REQUEST FOR THE APPEAL IS, IS THIS A BUILDING STRUCTURE OR IS THIS AN ITEM, MUCH LIKE A PIECE OF FURNITURE? THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE WERE PROPOSING. SO, UM, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT. THANK YOU. CAN I, CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION THEN? SURE. UM, SO JUST KIND OF THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE I, OR WHERE I STAND ON THAT, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WOULD MAKE A CARPORT, UM, A PIECE OF FURNITURE VERSUS A STRUCTURE? WHAT, WHERE'S THAT LINE? IF WE POUR A FOUNDATION AND SOMETHING IS PERMANENT, THEN WE WOULD GO UNDER THE RULES OF THE WHOLE UDC. UM, UM, IN TERMS OF ARE WE HAVING TO DEAL WITH IMPERVIOUS STRUCTURES? I WOULD QUESTION WHETHER THIS CHANGES THE IMPERVIOUS STRUCTURE AT ALL. BECAUSE WHEN THE LOURES ARE OPEN, THE WATER JUST GOES STRAIGHT THROUGH AND THERE WASN'T A FOUNDATION THAT WAS PUT ON. SO IT, THAT WOULD BE PART OF IT. TYPICALLY YOU'RE HAVING INSPECTIONS, YOU'D HAVE A FOUNDATION INSPECTION, YOU WOULD HAVE A FRAMING INSPECTION, YOU WOULD HAVE INSPECTIONS FOR ANY ELECTRICAL OR PLUMBING. IN THIS CASE, THERE ARE NONE. AND THEN YOU WOULD HAVE A FINAL OCCUPANCY. SO THERE'S A BIG, AT LEAST THREE INSPECTIONS THAT THEY'RE GONNA DO, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHEN THEY DO THEM. UM, UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WHEN IT'S JUST AN ITEM, IF I DO A POP-UP TENT THAT'S A 10 BY 10 TENT, LIKE ALL OF US HAVE FREE ROAM, PUTS ONE UP PRETTY MUCH EVERY WEEKEND. THERE'S THE DOG. PEOPLE PUT 'EM UP WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO GIVE AWAY THE FREE DOGS. THEORETICALLY THOSE ARE THE SAME THING. THAT IS THEY A, A MANUFACTURED ITEM THAT WE'RE PUTTING UP. THE QUESTION ABOUT THIS IS, DOES THE LIMIT OF THE TIME TEMPORARY MAKE A DIFFERENCE? AND THEN MAYBE IT DOES TO YOU. AND MAYBE THAT'S PART OF THE QUESTION, UM, AS TO, VERSUS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE, UM, REAL ESTATE, UM, AND ATTACHED IN PERMITT. GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHEN WE CONSTRUCT SOMETHING [00:45:01] AS A BUILDING OR A STRUCTURE, IT'S PRETTY PERMANENT. UM, THE INTENT IS THAT IT STAYS THERE UNLESS YOU GET A DEMOLITION PERMIT TO TAKE IT DOWN. SO THANK YOU. THANKS FOR MAKING IT MORE COMPLICATED, BEN. YEAH. HAVE YOU TALKED TO THE GUY IN THE FRONT ROW RIGHT HERE IN THE GLASSES BY ANYONE ELSE? WOULD ANYBODY ELSE CARE TO COME UP HERE AND SPEAK? I'D BE HAPPY TO. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. OKAY. TODAY WE'RE DECIDING ON WHETHER THIS IS A, A CONSTRUCTED ACCESSORY BUILDING, CORRECT? CORRECT. IT, WELL, WE'RE DECIDING WHETHER IT, IT CONSTITUTES A STRUCTURE THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT. SO THE SPECIFIC APPEAL, MR. BERGMAN, IS THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT HAS SAID THIS NEEDS TO BE PERMITTED. WE WOULD DENY THE PERMIT. IT CAN'T REMAIN HERE BECAUSE IT'S NOT PERMITTED. THE APPLICANT IS SAYING IT SHOULDN'T, IT DOESN'T NEED A PERMIT BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, THEREFORE WE DON'T NEED TO PERMIT IT. THE REAL QUESTION IS, COULD IT BE THERE EVEN IF IT WASN'T PERMITTED? AND THAT'S, I THINK, WHERE YOU'RE STRUGGLING. NOW, THE, THE REASON I BRING THAT UP IS I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH OR DELIBERATE FOR YOU, BUT YOU'RE USED TO HEARING REQUESTS FOR VARIANCES WOULD, RIGHT. WHICH WOULD BE, CAN WE PUT OUR CARPORT IN THE SETBACK? MM-HMM . THAT IS NOT THE REQUEST HERE. THE REQUEST IS TO, FOR THE BOARD TO SAY THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PERMITTED. AND SO IF WE WERE TO SAY THAT THIS IS NOT A PERMANENT STRUCTURE AND HE WERE TO PUT IT BACK WHERE IT WAS, HE WOULDN'T BE SUBJECT AT THAT POINT TO IT BEING TOO CLOSE TO THE ROAD AND ALL THAT. I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE WE WOULD'VE DETERMINED THAT IT'S NOT A, WE WOULD STILL HAVE TO PURSUE IT AS A CODE VIOLATION. OKAY. SO WE WOULD PURSUE IT AS A CODE VIOLATION? YES. BECAUSE IT WOULD, WOULD BE THERE. SO WE'D SAY, THIS IS, THIS ISN'T A STRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE PERMITTED. HE GOES AND PUTS IT OUT. HE WOULD STILL HAVE TO MOVE IT BECAUSE IT'S ENCROACHING THE ROAD OR IT DOESN'T MEET SETBACKS. UH, IT IS A SERIES OF TWO ACCESSORY STRUCTURES. THE INTENT IS FOR IT TO BE PERMANENT, WHICH MEANS MORE THAN 90 DAYS. UH, A TENT IS A TEMPORARY STRUCTURE. THAT'S TRUE. UH, LIKE THE TENT THAT'S SELLING CHRISTMAS TREES ON I TENT, IT'S NOT THERE FOR A DEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME. AND IT WAS PERMITTED. WHAT ABOUT A DOGHOUSE? UH, IT'S UNDER, UH, 200 SQUARE FEET. IT HAS MINIMAL IMPERVIOUS COVER REQUIREMENTS. IF THIS WAS SET UP AS A ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND SEPARATED ZONING WOULD STILL APPLY BECAUSE ONLY ONE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS ALLOWED PER LOT IN, UH, THAT ZONING. SO WE WOULD STILL HAVE TO ENFORCE IT ON THAT BASIS. SO, UH, IS A PERGOLA, UH, AN ACCESSORY STR YOU'RE SAYING A PERGOLA IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE PERMITTED? YES. ACCORDING TO THE UDC, IT, IT NOT, ACCORDING TO THE IRC, WE WE'RE, WE, WE ENFORCE BOTH THE IRC AND THE UDC. OKAY. YEAH, OF COURSE. SO HE WOULD, THIS WOULD BECOME A VIOLATION, A CODE VIOLATION IF IT SAT IN A SETBACK FOR MORE THAN 90 DAYS. IS THAT THE, IS THAT WHEN IT BECOMES NOT TEMPORARY? THAT'S BASICALLY THE, WHEN WE TAKE ACTION. OKAY. YEAH. WOULD THE SAME APPLY FOR A DOGHOUSE PUT IN A SETBACK? NO. WHY? IT'S UNDER 200 SQUARE. UNDER 200 SQUARE. BECAUSE IT, BECAUSE OF THE, THE, IT'S SMALL. AND YOU KNOW, THERE ALSO THERE'S STATE REQUIREMENT LIKE CHICKEN COOPS OR, OR ARE, ARE MANDATED BY, BY THE STATE. THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A POINT. ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN PARK A SUBURBAN UNDER, IT HAS TO BE PERMITTED. BECAUSE IT LAST LAST WEEK WE HAD, UH, OR LAST MONTH WE HAD 110 MILE AN HOUR WINDS [00:50:01] IN A EF ONE TORNADO. THAT'S WHY IT HAS TO MEET MINIMUM LOAD TO SIGNS THAT WITH, WITH THE SHUTTERS CLOSED THAT BE, CAN BECOME AIRBORNE IF IT'S NOT . AND THIS IS A ONE OFF DECISION AND IT'S SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS CASE? YES. MM-HMM . IT DOESN'T ESTABLISH THE STANDARD FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE. IT'S THIS CASE. CORRECT. IT, IT IS HIS APPEAL THAT THAT WOULD CONSTITUTE, UH, UM, REQUIRE A PERMIT. AND, AND ANY CARPORT WOULD, WE, WOULD, WE WOULD HAVE TO PURSUE THAT. DID NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT. I MEAN, THIS IS A GOOD LOOKING STRUCTURE, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF UGLY CARPORTS AND, UH, WE WOULD GET COMPLAINTS THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE ACTION ON THAT. SO I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT A CARPORT. WHAT IF IT WAS A, A SINGULAR POLE AND SALES? IT, DOES THAT BECOME A CARPORT? YEAH, THAT MATTER OF FACT, YOU KNOW, THERE, YOU SEE THOSE AT APARTMENT COMPLEXES ALL THE TIME. UM, YEAH, THERE'S ONE IN FIRST STREET MAYBE. YEAH. IT, IT STILL WOULD'VE TO, TO, UH, MEET THAT WIND DESIGN REQUIREMENT. OKAY. AND THERE ARE CARPORTS THAT LOOK VERY SIMILAR TO THAT, THAT DO, BUT THEY HAVE VERY SPECIFIC ANCHORING REQUIREMENTS AND THEY'RE BUILT TO WITHSTAND THAT TYPE OF WIND LOAD. DIFFERENT COST, A DIFFERENT COST, PROBABLY. UH, THAT, THAT, SURE. YEAH. I'VE, I RESEARCHED THAT WEBSITE. THAT WAS, THAT, THAT'S NOT CHEAP. IT, IT'S BECAUSE THE, THE ROOF ARTICULATES. IT'S PRETTY COOL STRUCTURE OUT HERE. HERE'S MY PROBLEM. HE COULD ESSENTIALLY TAKE WIND OUT OF THE CONVERSATION. 'CAUSE HE COULD PUT IT ON THE BACK PATIO AS A PERGOLA AND IT'D BE FINE. YEAH. IT WOULD STILL REQUIRE A PERMIT AND AND HE WOULD, WE WOULD GRANT IT. YEAH. YEAH. OKAY. SO WHAT IF I BOUGHT A, UH, TRAMPOLINE OFF OF AMAZON 20 BY 20 TRAMPOLINE AND PUT IN THE BACKYARD? IS THAT CONSIDERED A STRUCTURE? WHAT IS THAT? NO, THAT'S THE, IT IT, IT'S A PLAY STRUCTURE. THAT'S ITS TECHNICAL NAME AND UH, IF IT'S IN A COMMERCIAL ENVIRONMENT, THE BUILDING CODES DO HAVE, UH, REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT. WHERE RESIDENTIAL IT WOULD BE OKAY, RESIDENTIAL IS FINE. I'VE SEEN THE WIND TAKE THOSE . AND THEY DO YES. CAN THEMSELVES. I, IT, THE LINE IS SOMEWHERE IN, IN, YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING CODES CHOOSE WHERE THAT LINE IS FOR MY DEPARTMENT AND, AND, AND THAT WE SERVE TWO MASTERS THERE. THE IRC OR THE EDC AND THE BUILDING CODES. SO WHAT MAY BE CONFUSING FOR THE BOARD IS HE'S SPEAKING OF THE INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE AND THE STRUCTURAL CAPABILITY OF THE, OF THE TEN FOUR OF THE ASSEMBLY. RIGHT. MINIMUM STANDARD. RIGHT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY KIND OF WHAT A, THE BUILDING CODE FOCUSES ON. OKAY. THE ZONING APPLICATIONS WOULD FOCUS ON THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND WHETHER IT'S A CARPORT AND WHETHER OR NOT IT COULD BE ALLOWED. THE SPECIFIC REQUEST TONIGHT IS NOT FOR ALLOWING A CART PORT IN A SETBACK. RIGHT. IT'S FOR DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE THAT THIS PERMIT, THIS STRUCTURE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PER, THAT REQUIRES A PERMIT. IT DOESN'T ALLOW A USE. THAT'S NOT ALLOWED. THE QUESTION IS DOES IT NEED TO BE PERMITTED? YEAH. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE IT'S BUILT OR WHERE IT'S PLACED. IS, DOES IT REQUIRE A PERMIT? CORRECT. OKAY. MAN, IF WE HAD SOMEBODY FROM THE UDC HERE, THAT COULD BETTER EXPLAIN. WE DON'T NEED THAT GHOST TO THE PAST . SO IT'S A HELPFUL DISCUSSION. THANK YOU. YES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WOULD ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK BEFORE WE CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING? I PLEASE. [00:55:08] MY NAME IS JOHN WRIGHT. UH, MR. WRIGHT, MY WIFE AND I ARE THE OWNERS OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY. UM, SO I PULLED A PERMIT BECAUSE I WAS TOLD I HAD TO PULL A PERMIT. YOU KNOW, I WASN'T SURE WHY, BUT, UH, BUT, BUT ANY RATE WE DID, AND SO WE'VE GONE THROUGH ALL THESE, UM, I GUESS DIFFERENT MOTIONS, DOING DIFFERENT THINGS, WHETHER IT WAS AN APPEAL OR A VARIANCE OR WHAT, WHAT WE'RE APPLYING FOR. BUT, UH, I HAVE ONE QUESTION. SO THESE ARE TWO, THESE ARE TWO PIECES OF FURNITURE AND, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL 'EM THAT ARE UNDER 200 SQUARE FEET. SO COULD I HAVE TWO OF THESE THINGS ANYWHERE I WANT 'EM? THAT'S A QUESTION. I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO WITHOUT A PERMIT. SO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT YEAH, THAT DOES. BECAUSE THEY ARE OH, THEY ARE SEPARATE. YEAH. THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED. THEY'RE LOURED. THEY CAN BE OPEN AND CLOSED, YOU KNOW. SO I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE WIND LOADS. 'CAUSE THESE ARE FOUR POSTS. YEAH. I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING FOR THE WIND TO CATCH NOW IF THE LOUVERS ARE CLOSED. I WOULD AGREE. THERE'S SOMETHING FOR THE WIND TO CATCH, BUT SORRY, AGAIN, THE MINUTES ARE EASIER WITH THE MICROPHONE. SURE. UM, UM, SO I DON'T WANNA MIX THIS UP AGAIN. BACK TO, TO, TO MIKE'S POINT, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE USE AND WE'RE SEPARATING THEM AND THEY'RE NO LONGER BEING UTILIZED AS A CARPORT, IF THEY'RE IN THE REAR YARD, THE UDC IS STILL GOING TO APPLY. SO WITH THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT ON THIS PROPERTY ONLY ONE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS ALLOWED, THE UDC WOULD CONSIDER THIS A STRUCTURE. UM, IT, IT WOULD CONSIDER THIS A STRUCTURE. UM, AND HE COULD HAVE ONE OF 'EM. OR IF THERE WAS LIKE A LARGER ONE, IT COULD BE OUT THERE. EITHER WAY ALL THE REST OF THE UDC WOULD APPLY AS WELL. THE SETBACKS, IMPERVIOUS COVER, UM, ET CETERA, ET CETERA. NOW, WOULD IT SPECIFICALLY BE ALLOWED? I COULDN'T TELL YOU WITHOUT SEEING A SITE PLAN AND KNOWING WHAT ELSE IS ON THE PROPERTY, WHERE EXACTLY IT'S BEING PROPOSED, THINGS LIKE THAT. I HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. IT DOESN'T MAKE THE ANSWER ANY MORE EASY THOUGH, . BUT WHEN DOES THE UDC, UH, SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING THAT, AND BEN, IT MIGHT'VE BEEN YOU, UH, ABOUT THE SIZE OF THE, OF WHAT IT, OF THE ASSEMBLY OR WHATEVER IT IS, OR WHETHER IT BE A DOG HOUSE OR WHATEVER. UH, IS THAT'S THE IRC UNDER TWO I SQUARE FEET. OKAY. I GUESS I'M DONE. I'M NOT SURE WHAT, WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS TO ASK OTHER THAN IT, IT LOOKS GOOD. I THINK IT'S SAFE. I THINK IT'S ADDS TO THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY AND ALL OF THAT. BUT AT ANY RATE, AS THE OWNER, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH IT. YEAH, NO, IT'S, IT'S A, I IT'S VERY NICE. UM, I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A, THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT A QUESTION. UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CONCERN THAT THESE START POPPING UP ALL, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY STARTS POPPING UP A UH, CARPORT. SO, BUT THEY, THEY MIGHT NOT ALL BE THAT AESTHETICALLY PLEASING I WOULD GUESS, IN BERNIE. SO JUST THINGS TO CONSIDER. OKAY. WELL THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. THANKS JOHN. ALRIGHT GUYS, I GO AHEAD AND CLOSE OUT THE PUBLIC HEARING. NOW. THE, WE CAN START CONSIDERING VARIANCE NUMBER 25 DASH ZERO SIX TOWER OF EARNINGS SUBDIVISION. I THINK THERE IS A HARDSHIP AROUND THE STYLE OF THE LAND. MM-HMM . HOW IT'S FRAMED. AND I THINK THEY'RE MAXIMIZING THE USE OF THAT. I MEAN, IT, IT'S INTERESTING JUST 'CAUSE IT BUTTS UP AGAINST [01:00:02] A PART OF THAT PROPERTY THAT, TO THE POINT OF THE SEAT UNUSABLE. YEAH, THAT'S, I MEAN, IT IS A SHEER DROP OFF INTO THE FRONTAGE ROAD, WHATEVER THAT THING IS. YEAH. WHAT I OFTEN, WHAT I OFTEN LOOK AT IS IF IT'S A, A LARGER DEVELOPMENT THAT'S BROKEN UP, AND THIS HAPPENS OR HAS HAPPENED A LOT IN RESIDENTIAL HERE TO WHERE THERE'S A REMAINING LOT THAT'S TOO SMALL OR TOO BIG, AND WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GONNA HAPPEN IN THIS SCENARIO WITH ME. IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, THEY HAVE, THIS IS A HISTORICAL PROPERTY. IT'S IN, YOU KNOW, IT'S 20 YEARS OLD. IT'S BEEN USED, YOU KNOW, HANDS HAVE CHANGED. SO THEY HAVE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY AND IT IS QUITE UNUSUAL. AND TO ECHO THE FACT THAT IT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY ARE DOING THIS, IT ABUTS THAT PROPERTY. BUT WHAT WOULD THEY EVER, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE TO BE ABLE TO REALLY PUT THERE. I THINK IF THE, THE OWNER OF THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY HAD, UM, RESPONDED NEGATIVELY, THEN I, I WOULD LEAN TOWARD DENYING YEAH. JUST FOR THAT. AGREED. BUT, UM, OF COURSE, BUT WE DIDN'T GET THAT. WE, YOU KNOW, SHE WAS MORE THAN WILLING TO WAIVE HER, UH, SETBACK REQUIREMENT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, I LEANED TOWARD, WITH ALL THE OTHER FACTORS INVOLVED, I LEANED TOWARD, UH, APPROVING THE VARIANCE. YEAH. THE, IT'S GONNA BE IT, BUT I UNDERSTAND IT'S GONNA BE ZONED COMMERCIAL AT SOME POINT. HOPEFULLY, YEAH. MM-HMM . OKAY. AND DO WE, DO WE VOTE ON BOTH OF 'EM AT THE SAME TIME, MIKE, OR DO WE YEAH, YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD TAKE ACTION ON THEM SEPARATELY AND IN THIS ORDER. SO YOU'RE DELIBERATING RIGHT NOW THE VARIANCE REQUEST AND THEN PRESUMABLY YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD TAKE ACTION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. SO BEFORE CONSIDERING THE APPEAL, CAN YOU PUT THE RECOMMENDED MOTIONS? SURE. BEAR WITH ME WHILE I TRY TO FIND THE RIGHT ONE. . THAT'S IT. SET. I'LL MAKE A MOTION. I MOVE THAT THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ACCEPT THE FINDINGS AND APPROVE THE VARIANCE REQUEST. I'LL SECOND 25 0 7. ALRIGHT, LET'S PUT IT TO A VOTE. ALL APPROVED IS 25 0 6 5 0 VARIANCE NUMBER 25 DASH ZERO SIX TOWER OF BERNIE SUBDIVISION. LOT THREE HAS BEEN APPROVED. NOW THE PHONE IS ONE IN A VERY LONG TIME. I THINK WE SHOULD SAVE THE OTHER ONE FOR A DAY WHEN I'M NOT HERE. YES. , CAN WE DO THIS ON A THIRD? OH MY GOSH, I THINK I NEED A DRINK. , I, I STRUGGLE WITH IT. I THINK WE'RE FORCING IT INTO THE CARPORT DEFINITION AND IT TRULY IS TWO UNIQUE PIECES THAT CAN PUT ON A PATIO AND BE CONSIDERED. OKAY. THE WIND REQUIREMENT DOESN'T CHANGE. YEAH, BUT THE QUESTION IS, IS SHOULD IT BE PERMITTED OR NOT? YEAH. THE USE IS NOT THE ISSUE. USE IS NOT THE ISSUE. IF YOU PUT IT ON THE CARPORT OR IF THEY PUT IT ON THE BACK PATIO, IT WOULDN'T NEED A PERMIT. IT WOULD WHY? I THINK THE FACT THAT YOU CAN SEPARATE IT IS KIND OF WHAT DIFFERENTIATES IT FROM BEING JUST ONE STRUCTURE THAT'S OVER THE 200 SQUARE FEET. LIKE IT'S TWO SEPARATE STRUCTURES, LIKE THEY SAID, WHETHER OR NOT IT GOES WITH THE UDC ISN'T REALLY THE ISSUE HERE. IT'S, IS THIS STRUCTURE, BUT IT'S TWO STRUCTURES AND CLEARLY IT CAN BE MOVED AND SEPARATED, BUT, RIGHT. I WAS GONNA SAY, AND IT HAS BEEN, IT'S MOVED RIGHT NOW, SO IT IS EASILY MOVED, OBVIOUSLY. BUT I THINK THE QUESTION COMES BACK IS IF THEY PUT IT, WOULD IT NEED A PERMIT IF THEY PUT IT SOMEWHERE, ANYWHERE ELSE IN THERE? BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE USE. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S CAUSING THE CONFLICT THAT I UNDERSTAND BECAUSE OF IT DOESN'T MEET THE WIND LOAD FOR THE USE AS A CARPORT. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE DECIDING. WE'RE DECIDING IS IF THEY WERE TO PUT THIS ANYWHERE ON THEIR PROPERTY AS IS INTENDED USE, WOULD IT REQUIRE A PERMIT? I THOUGHT THE ANSWER WAS YES. I, I BELIEVE THAT IS THE QUESTION. JUST UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU APPROVE THE APPEAL, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT GETS TO USE GET USED FOR ONE USE OR THE OTHER. RIGHT. IT'S JUST WHETHER OR NOT IT NEEDS A PERMIT. RIGHT NOW, THE, THE, WHETHER IT [01:05:01] NEEDS A PERMIT OR NOT, THE, THE, THE ASSEMBLY WOULD STILL NEED TO MEET ALL UDC REQUIREMENTS. SO IF I WAS TO BUILD A PUP TENT, I WOULDN'T NEED A PERMIT. PRESUMABLY THAT'S A BAD, IF I WAS TO BUY A TRAMPOLINE, PRESUMABLY I WOULDN'T NEED A PERMIT. WHETHER I COULD PUT MY TRAMPOLINE STRADDLING MY NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY OR UNDER , SOMETHING THAT'S CAUSING A PROBLEM IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT ISSUE. RIGHT. THAT, THAT TRAMPOLINE PERMITTED OR NOT WOULD STILL NEED TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS. THAT'S WHAT I THINK I HEARD STAFF SAY. AM I CORRECT, FRANKIE? CORRECT. SO THE REASON I BRING THIS UP IS YOU'RE NOT DETERMINING USE, YOU'RE NOT DETERMINING WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY MIGHT TAKE OTHER ACTION. YOU'RE YOUR, THE QUESTION IS, DOES THIS PARTICULAR ASSEMBLY REQUIRE A PERMIT TO BOTH OF THOSE? SOUNDS LIKE THEY STILL HAVE OTHER HURDLES IF WE, UH, APPROVE THE APPEAL. THAT, THAT WAS KIND OF MY QUESTION. SO IF WE DEEM THAT THIS DOES REQUIRE A PERMIT, IS IT EVEN GONNA GET PERMITTED? I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S OUR QUESTION TONIGHT. IF WE SAY IT DOES NOT NEED A PERMIT, DO, IS IT STILL SUBJECT TO OTHER KIND OF MODIFICATIONS? UDC? YEAH, SO IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF, YOU'RE WELCOME TO ASK THEM. YOU KNOW, AS THE BOARD, IF WE SAID YES, IT NEEDS A PERMIT, THE PERMIT WOULD BE DENIED. RIGHT. BECAUSE OF THE WIND LOAD AND EVERYTHING THAT, AND IF WE SAY IT DOESN'T NEED A PERMIT, THEN IT STILL SUBJECT TO ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY THAT ARE OUTSIDE AND IT, IT STILL MIGHT BE ASKED TO BE REMOVED. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S NOT OUR S NOT OUR CALL. MM-HMM . AND, UH, THE THOUGHTS OVER HERE IS THAT IT'S, IT'S UNDER 200 SQUARE FEET. THERE ARE TWO OF 'EM. YOU CAN MOVE 'EM ALL AROUND THE YARD. RIGHT. BUT DOES I I, I WOULD LOOK AT IT IN MY MIND AS JUST ONE OF 'EM BECAUSE THEY'RE SEPARATE. SO IF WE'RE GOING TO, IF WE'RE GOING DETERMINE THIS, IF, I MEAN, JUST IN MY MIND, I'M NOT SAYING IF WE DO, I'M NOT, I I I, I JUST LOOK AT IT AS IF IT'S, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT, I KNOW THERE ARE TWO, BUT THEY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT. COULD THEY PUT CONSTRUCTED TOGETHER? PUT DENNIS, IF YOU STRAPPED THE TWO UNITS TOGETHER, THE POST IN THE CENTER, WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED ONE THEN? I I DON'T, I'M ASKING STAFF IF, IF, IF THEY'RE USED, IF THE USE IS AS A CARDBOARD, UM, IT IN EACH ONE OF THOSE STRUCTURES IS 130 SQUARE FEET IN COVERAGE FOR HIS APPLICATION. SO IT'S 260 SQUARE FEET RIGHT NOW HAS TWO UNITS. BUT, UM, AGAIN, BUT MY, MY QUESTION WAS IF THEY STRAPPED THOSE POSTS TOGETHER WITH SOME CLAMPING MECHANISM THAT WAS DESIGNED BY MANUFACTURER, WOULD IT THEN BE CONSIDERED ONE IT'S UNIT? IT WOULD'VE TO BE CERTIFIED TO MEET THE 105 MILE AN HOUR WINDLOW. THERE, THERE ARE CAR PORTS THAT ARE, I CAN SHOW YOU EXAMPLES THAT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THAT, BUT THAT MANUFACTURER SAYS THAT STRUCTURE IS ONLY GOOD TO 73 MILES PER HOUR. AND ANY USE, OTHER THAN AS, AS A RECREATIONAL USE FOR PEOPLE IS, UH, IT WILL AVOID THE WARRANT AND, UH, UH, IF THAT, IF, IF THERE WERE JUST ONE AND IT WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS BACKYARD, JUST FOR EVERYBODY HERE AND ME DO, DO YOU SEE THIS PIECE OF THIS PERGOLA? WHATEVER, IT'S, WOULD IT, DO YOU THINK IT WOULD REQUIRE A A, A PERMIT FOR, FOR THE, FOR THE IRC? NO, FOR THE AGENCY. IT WOULDN'T. IF THERE'S OTHER ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ON, ON THAT LOT, IF, UH, IF IT IS TRULY AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE TO THE MAIN HOUSE ON A SINGLE LOT, THAT WOULD BE THE CASE. UH, BUT, BUT GENERALLY IT WILL REQUIRE A PERMIT. UM, AND IF, IF, IF IT'S NOT PERMITTED, THEN IT, IT'LL BE A CO COMPLIANCE ISSUE. SO IF, IF I AM, UH, MR. BERGMAN AND I WANT TO GO AND I'M GONNA BUILD A 10 BY 10 PERGOLA, I APPROACH THE CITY AND GET A PERMIT FOR IT. EXCUSE ME. BLESS. SO, SO AGAIN, I BELIEVE THE QUESTION IS, IS THIS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE PERMITTED? NOT, IS IT SOMETHING THAT [01:10:01] COULD BE USED AS A CARPORT? NOT, IS IT ONE OR TWO? IS IT AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE THAT NEEDS TO BE PERMITTED? IF IT'S A TRAMPOLINE, IT DOESN'T NEED A PERMIT. IS THIS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE? THE BUILDING OFFICIAL HAS DETERMINED THAT IT IS, THE APPLICANT IS OPINING THAT IT'S NOT. AND WHAT'S THE LANGUAGE FOR THE MOTIONS? THEY'RE LONG , THEY'RE JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET IT RIGHT. TRAMPOLINE EXAMPLE NUMBER NINE IS A GOOD ONE IN MY MIND AND PLANNING DEPARTMENT. I'M GONNA ASK YOU IF, IF TO, I AM NOT RELEVANT STAFF ON THIS. I'M JUST HERE TO MAKE SURE THE MEETING RUNS. SO THE REALLY, WE NEED TO HEAR FROM PERTINENT STAFF WHETHER OR NOT WHAT I SAID IS TRUE SOUNDED GREAT. PEOPLE THAT AREN'T RETIRING WELL, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. SORRY, . I'M NOT THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. I AM NOT IN CODE ENFORCEMENT. I'M HERE BECAUSE I'M NOT IN THOSE TWO . BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD REMINDER THOUGH THAT WE'RE DECIDING VERY SPECIFICALLY DO WE NEED A PERMIT FOR IT? YES OR NO? DOESN'T MATTER WHERE IT'S BUILT. DOESN'T MATTER WHY IT WAS BUILT. DOES IT NEED A PERMIT TO BE BUILT? THAT IS THE, THAT IS CORRECT. AS POSTED ON THE AGENDA, THE, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING AN APPEAL TO THE SECTION OF THE, OF THE BUILDING CODE, UH, AND THE CITY AND THE, THE CITY OFFICIALS INTERPRETATION THAT A BUILDING PERMIT IS REQUIRED. I'M PARAPHRASING A LITTLE BIT. THAT'S THE, I DON'T WANNA GET TOO LEGALESE ON THIS. I'LL MAKE A MOTION. . WHAT YOU . I MOVE TO THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT APPROVE APPEAL NUMBER 25 0 7 A REQUEST FROM TYLER . AND BEN ADAM ON BEHALF OF C-M-J-C-W INVESTMENTS, LLC REQUESTING AN APPEAL TO IRC, SECTION R 1 0 5 0.1 IN THE CITY OF BURN CHIEF BUILDING OFFICIALS INTERPRETATION OF THEIR REQUIREMENT TO OBTAIN A BUILDING PERMIT FOR IRONS AND GRAHAMS EDITION. LOT 65 2 0 2. YO, I SECOND IT. WE HAVE A SECOND. WE'LL VOTE FOR, YAY. WAS THERE A NAY VOTE? NO, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A NAY VOTE. WELL, WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE COUNT WAS. THERE WAS, I BELIEVE I SAW TWO YAYS. THERE WERE TWO. AND SO ARE THERE ANY NAYS? OH, I WAS STILL READING THE, UH, MOTION JUST TO BE THEY'RE NAYS OR THEY ABSTAIN. THAT'S WHAT I NEED TO RECORD. I WOULD BE A NAY. I'M I'M NOT TRYING TO VOTE FOR THEM. I JUST NEED TO KNOW IF THEY'RE ABSTAINING. YAY OR NAY. AND YOURSELF TOO, SIR. I VOTE TO APPROVE THE APPEAL. WELL, I'M GLAD I DIDN'T BANG MY GAFF. . SO THREE A'S. YEAH. A, THERE'S A FIFTH VOTE. WE NEED YOUR VOTE. AND MR. MR. BOURBON, WE WOULD NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOUR VOTE IS, YAY, NAY, OR ABSTAIN FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS COURT AND US NOT SITTING HERE FOR ANOTHER HOUR. I'M GOING TO ABSTAIN. OKAY, SO, SO THEN MY INTERPRETATION IS THAT IT TOOK A THREE FIFTHS VOTE OF THE BOARD. ONE ABSTAINED. ONE NA THREE FIFTHS PASSED. OKAY. JUST SO EVERYBODY'S CLEAR. YES. OKAY. SO THE APPEAL IS GRANTED. THE APPEAL IS GRANTED. OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THIS CLOSES IT OUT FOR THIS EVENING. THANK YOU FOLKS. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.