[00:00:03]
[1. CALL TO ORDER – 6:00 PM]
ON JUNE 1ST, AND I'LL CALL THIS PLANNING AND ZONING MEETING TO ORDER.LET'S START, AS WE ALWAYS DO WITH OUR BUDGETS OF ALLEGIANCE AND A MOMENT OF SILENCE.
P ALLEGIANCE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, REPUBLIC
FOR ALL OUR HONOR, THE TEXAS FATHER, MY PLEDGING TO JUST BEHAVE TO TEXAS ONE STATE ONE IN VISIT, AND PLEASE JOIN ME FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE.
MY NAME IS LUCAS HYLER AND I'M THE EXECUTIVE CHAIR FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, AND I'LL BE FACILITATING OUR MEETING TONIGHT.
UM, I WILL FIRST START BY ASKING
[2. CONFLICTS OF INTEREST]
FELLOW COMMISSIONERS IF THERE ARE ANY CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.THEN WE WILL MOVE INTO PUBLIC COMMENT.
[3. PUBLIC COMMENTS: This is the opportunity for visitors and guests to address the Planning and Zoning Commission on any issue. The Planning and Zoning Commission may not discuss any presented issue, nor may any action be taken on any issue at this time. (Attorney General opinion – JC-0169)]
THE FIRST, UH, PERSON I HAVE SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT IS SEAN BEAN ON ITEM B.UM, MR. BEAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT NOW OR AT YOUR, AT THE TIME WHEN WE GET TO THE AGENDA ITEM? FOR THE AGENDA ITEM? OKAY, THANK YOU.
UH, NEXT PERSON I HAVE IS, UH, NANCY DRUCKER.
AND THAT'S FOR, FOR ITEM FIVE C.
AND THEN, UM, VICKY STRINGER, I HAVE, UM, AS WELL FOR A PUBLIC COMMENT ALSO.
AND WHAT ITEM IS THAT FOR? FIVE TO FIVE A FIVE A.
MOVING FORWARD TO THE CONSENT AGENDA.
[4. CONSENT AGENDA: All items listed below within the consent agenda are considered routine by the Planning and Zoning Commission and may be enacted with one motion. There will be no separate discussion of items unless there is a Commission member or citizen request, in which event the item may be moved to the general order of business and considered in its normal sequence.]
UM, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OR MR. CHAIRMAN I'D LIKE COULD MAKE A MOTION AND WE PULL ITEMS B AND C OFF THE CONSENT AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION.COMMISSIONER BERG, YOU WANNA MAKE A CLARIFY THIS, IS THIS A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA ON HERE? THIS IS THE PULL MOTION REMOVING TO REMOVE.
SO YOU ARE A APPROVING, BUT WILL YOU STATE WHAT YOU ARE REMOVING FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA? THE, THE MOTION WAS TO REMOVE BOTH ITEMS FROM THE CONSENT YES.
AND APPROVING THE MINUTES, CORRECT? UH, I'M NOT MAKING THAT A MOTION YET UNTIL WE MAKE THE MOTION REMOVED.
IS THAT CORRECT? NOW WE APPROVE THE MINUTES, BUT, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I, IN OUR PAST, OUR CUSTOMS BEEN, IF ONE MEMBER WANTS TO REMOVE FROM CONSENT, WE DO REMOVE THAT FOR A SEPARATE VOTE SO THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS.
SO YOU DON'T NEED A SECOND FOR COMMISSIONER KATE'S MOTION TO REMOVE IT.
SO THEN THIS WOULD BE TO APPROVE THE MEETING.
SO THIS IS TO APPROVE JUST A, MY APOLOGIES.
OKAY, I, YEAH, I WILL, I'LL, I'LL, I'M GOOD WITH THAT.
AND THE MEETING MINUTES FROM LAST MONTH.
CONSENT AGENDA HAVE BEEN APPROVED, THEN WE WILL MOVE OVER
[4.B. 2026-191 Consider approval of the Commons of Menger Creek Unit 10 Preliminary Plat, generally located along Herff Road southwest of Old San Antonio Road]
TO CONSENT.AGENDA ITEM B, CONSIDER APPROVAL FOR THE COMMONS OF MANGER CREEK, UNIT 10, PRELIMINARY PLAT AND FINAL PLAT.
GENERALLY LOCATED ALONG HERF ROAD, SOUTHWEST OF ANTONIO ROAD.
I'M A MEMBER OF THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND WE'LL BE PRESENTING THIS ITEM.
UH, THIS IS AGENDA ITEM FOUR B, COMMONS OF MENGER CREEK, UNIT 10 PRELIMINARY PLAT.
UH, THIS MAP SHOWS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY, WHICH IS LOCATED ALONG HERF ROAD, SOUTHWEST OF OLD SAN ANTONIO ROAD.
THIS PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS AND IS IS 4.882 ACRES.
UH, THE OWNER IS PRIORITY DEVELOPMENT AND THE APPLICANT IS LJA ENGINEERING.
THIS IS A ZONING MAP THAT SHOWS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY.
IT IS ZONED C TWO TRANSITIONAL COMMERCIAL.
[00:05:01]
THIS IS A MAP THAT SHOWS OUR FUTURE LAND USE PLAN, WHICH DESIGNATE DESIGNATES THIS AREA AS AUTO ORIENTED COMMERCIAL.THIS MAP SHOWS ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS RELATED TO THE SITE.
UH, AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE FLOODPLAIN.
HOWEVER, THERE IS ALOMAR, UH, IN PLACE THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2017.
THIS IS THE PRELIMINARY PLAT, WHICH COMPRISES OF TWO LOTS WITH ONE OF THEM BEING OPEN SPACE.
REGARDING OPEN SPACE, THIS LOT IS A TOTAL OF 4.882 ACRES WITH 1.23 ACRES BEING DESIGNATED OPEN SPACE, WHICH WILL BE DEDICATED TO THE CITY AS PARKLAND.
ADDITIONALLY, THIS PLAT IDENTIFIES ONE HERITAGE LEGACY TREE.
PRIMARY ACCESS TO THE SITE WILL, WILL BE VIA PEDIGREE PLACE WITH A CONNECTION TO HERF ROACH.
ON HERE IN BLUE, THIS IS THE 1.23 ACRES THAT WILL BE DESIGNATED AS OPEN SPACE.
UH, STAFF FINDS THAT THE PRELIMINARY PLAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, AND THAT IT HAS BEEN REVIEWED BY ALL PERTINENT DEPARTMENT DEPARTMENTS AND COMPLIES WITH APPLICABLE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS.
UH, IF THE COMMISSION CHOOSES TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL, STAFF RECOMMENDS THE INCLUSION OF THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS THAT THE RECORDED PLAT SHALL SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO THE PRELIMINARY PLAT DATE STAMPED MAY 18TH, 2026.
UH, WITH THAT, I WILL YIELD FOR QUESTION AND DISCUSSION WITH THESE MOTIONS.
COMMISSIONER HAYES, IF YOU COULD GO BACK TO THAT FIRST UH, SLIDE THAT SHOWED THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY YEAH, RIGHT THERE.
THAT INDICATES A CUL-DE-SAC COMING IN TOWARDS THE CENTER OF THE PROPERTY OVER THERE ON THE, UH, WEST SIDE THAT CONNECTS TO AN EXISTING CUL-DE-SAC, I GUESS CLOSE TO WHERE THE, UH, IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT WILL NOT BE THE CASE.
IT'LL BE ALONG THE EASTERN SIDE.
THERE WILL BE A PEDIGREE PLACE WILL BE ALONG THE EASTERN SIDE AS SHOWN.
I WAS GONNA SAY THAT, THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE, UH, SO IS THIS A NEW RE PLACE GONNA BE A NEW CUT, A NEW ROAD, OR A CUL-DE-SAC THERE? YES, SIR.
AND THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED FOR THAT CUL-DE-SAC TO BE THERE? UH, I BELIEVE IT IS PART OF THE, THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
KNOW WE'VE BEEN, HAD SOME DISCUSSION OVER THIS AND THAT'S WHAT HAD ME THROWN OFF HERE.
IS THAT THAT FIRST MAP AND THE SECOND MAP SHOWED TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT ACCESSES FOR THIS.
SO, SO THE FIRST, IS THIS A PROPERTY THAT HAS A SIGN ON IT NOW? UH, PRE-LEASING MEDICAL OFFICE SPACE? YES, SIR.
I BELIEVE THE, THE OTHER IMA THE OTHER MAP IS BASED OFF AERIAL IMAGERY THAT IS MAYBE NOT COMPLETELY UP TO DATE.
I WOULD LIKE, IF ANYONE HERE CAN SPEAK TO IT TO GET A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION ON THAT CUL-DE-SAC THAT'S SHOWN ON THIS MAP THAT DOES NOT CURRENTLY EXIST AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ACTUALLY BEEN APPROVED.
UM, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON, ON, UH, CURB CUTS IN HERE, UH, IN PAST P AND Z MEETINGS.
SO, YEAH, UH, BEN, WE GO BACK TO THAT PREVIOUS SLIDE.
I'LL HAVE, UH, MR. CARROLL JUMP IN IF, UH, IF I, IF HE NEEDS TO ADD ANYTHING TO WHAT I'M GONNA ADD HERE.
UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE OVERALL HERF ROAD, UH, THE IDEA WAS TO PROVIDE, UH, CERTAIN POINTS OF ACCESS.
WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON DRIVE-THROUGH ON DRIVEWAYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UH, PROVIDE THE MAIN POINTS OF ACCESS TO THESE PUBLIC ROAD CUL-DE-SACS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF HERF IN THIS CASE.
UH, THERE WILL BE ANOTHER CUL-DE-SAC OF LINES WITH, UH, WHAT'S THAT CALLED? THE ONE ON THE SOUTH.
AND, AND THE PURPOSE OF THE, UH, THE ACCESS IN THE BACK IS TO PROVIDE ACCESS THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CENTER AS IT GOES, UH, FROM EAST TO WEST.
UH, SO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO, SO PEOPLE CAN GET TO THESE STRATEGIC POINTS THAT ARE, UH, BEING CONSTRUCTED.
SO THE ROAD IS SHOWN ON THIS, UH, MAP HERE IS ALSO GOING TO BE CONSTRUCTED, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH.
SO IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE DID THE, UH, STARBUCKS, WE HAD THAT ACCESS THAT WENT ACROSS THE BACK.
SAME THING ON THIS SOUTH SIDE REASON, IT HAS A CUL-DE-SAC.
THERE IS, HE NEEDED TO TURN AROUND FOR THE FIRE.
I'LL LET MR. CARROLL EXPLAIN MORE.
NATHAN, NATHAN DID A GREAT JOB.
SO IT'S A CUL-DE-SAC OFF OF A CUL-DE-SAC.
THE FIRST CUL-DE-SAC IS THE ACTUAL CITY STREET, UM, CITY, STREET, CITY RIGHT OF WAY.
[00:10:01]
UH, AND THEN THE SECOND ROAD THAT YOU CAN SEE IS A, A FIRE LANE.THAT'LL BE FUTURE ACCESS FOR WHATEVER COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT GOES THERE.
AND SO THEY HAD, AS PART OF THE, THE FIRE LANE, THEY HAD TO PUT A TURNAROUND AS FOR THE FIRE LANE.
UM, THERE WILL BE, IF YOU REMEMBER THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THERE'S FOUR CUL-DE-SAC STREETS THAT COME OFF HERF ROAD.
UM, SO THIS WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE ANOTHER CUL-DE-SAC.
YOU CAN SEE THAT NORTHEAST CORNER.
THERE'S A LITTLE BUBBLE THERE FOR THE FUTURE CUL-DE-SAC.
UM, SO THAT WILL BE BUILT, DESIGNED, AND BUILT AS A SEPARATE PROJECT FROM THIS PARTICULAR PLAT.
THEY SEPARATED INTO ITS OWN SEPARATE PLAT.
SO UNTIL THAT ROAD IS BUILT, THIS CUL-DE-SAC THAT YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT IS THE ACCESS UNTIL THE OTHER ROAD IS BUILT.
SO THEY'RE NOT INTENDING TO BUILD THE CUL-DE-SAC RIGHT NOW, JUST HAVE ACCESS TO THIS LOT FROM THIS FIRE LANE.
BASICALLY, THEY'VE SEPARATED IT INTO SEPARATE PLATS.
I DON'T KNOW THE TIMING OF WHEN THEY'RE GONNA BUILD IT.
HOW WIDE IS THAT FIRE LANE? UH, CITY OF BURNING REQUIRE FIRE LANE'S 26 FEET WIDE.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE OLD RULE FOR 20 OR 26.
UH, WHICH ONE WOULD IT BE? I MEAN, DID THEY, ARE THEY VESTED AT 20 OR DID THEY HAVE TO BUILD AT 26? I BELIEVE THAT WAS BUILT BEFORE, I ACTUALLY TRUTHFULLY DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU.
UM, WHICH, WHAT WIDTH IT IS, IT WAS 20 WHEN THE UDC WAS ADOPTED.
THE FIRE CODES IN GENERAL, THE FIRE LANE AND HAVING THAT AS THE ONLY POINT OF ACCESS TO THAT LOT IS, ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
IT IT'S SIMILAR TO THE HERPS VET, UM, HERPS VET.
AS YOU KNOW, THOSE, IF ANYONE HAD BEEN TO THE HERPS VET, YOU DON'T HAVE DIRECT ACCESS TO HERF ROAD.
YOU HAVE TO GO UP GALLON FOX AND YOU KIND OF CUT OVER THAT DRIVEWAY TO THE SITE THAT MULTIPLE PEOPLE WILL BE USING THAT SAME DRIVEWAY.
IF YOU RECALL, HERF HERF ROAD IN GENERAL, WE WERE REALLY TRYING TO LIMIT DRIVEWAYS ON HERF ROAD.
AND SO THIS IS PART OF, OF THAT, THE CROSS ACCESS BETWEEN ALL THE LOTS.
BUT I ALSO RECALL A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON THOSE ROADS BEING 20 OR 26 FEET WIDE TOO.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT, ARE THEY GOING UP TO HERTS RIGHT NOW? THE THE VET CENTER? DO YOU KNOW? I, I DON'T HAVE THAT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
THAT'S MY CONCERN THAT THE, IT'S SHOWING TWO DIFFERENT ACCESS POINTS ON THIS PRESENTATION.
AND, AND THE ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE USED FOR THIS LOT RIGHT NOW IS BASICALLY A, A LONG NARROW FIRE LANE.
AND DEPENDING ON WHAT'S DEVELOPED IN THERE, I JUST DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SUFFICIENT FOR SAFETY AND HEALTH, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S JUST A 20 FOOT FIRE LANE.
AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW THE, THE STATUS.
AND I'M GOING ASK AB THE PLANS FOR THE OTHER CUL-DE-SAC.
SO WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY PLANS YET FOR THAT OTHER CUL-DE-SAC AT THIS TIME.
MR. CARROLL, THIS WOULD BE THE ONLY INGRESS EGRESS, CORRECT? YEAH.
WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE THEM A DRIVEWAY ON HERF ROAD.
IT DOESN'T MEET THE SPACING RULES AND, UH, GRANT LET, UNLESS YOU GUYS GRANT THE VARIANCE, WHICH YOU HAVE ON OTHER PEOPLE ON HERF, UM, BUT IT DOESN'T, THE DRIVEWAY SPACING ON HERF FOR THIS PARCEL DOESN'T MEET OUR RULES.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION POINTS FOR THIS ITEM? NO, SIR.
IS THERE A MOTION, I DO HAVE A POINT OF ORDER FOR, FOR, UH, M**K, WHAT IS OUR REQUIREMENT AS A COMMISSION WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ACCESS WILL BE FOR A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AND THERE'S NO INDICATION ON THIS IF THAT'S A 20 FOOT OR A 26 OR HOW IT WOULD BE BUILT OR ARE, ARE, ARE THERE ANY OBLIGATIONS WE HAVE FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE, OF THE COMMUNITY AND OF THAT PROJECT TO KNOW HOW PEOPLE ARE GONNA GET TO IT AT THIS POINT? COMMISSIONER CATES, THE ROLE OF THE COMMISSION IS TO EXAMINE THE PLAT AGAINST THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
AND REALLY NOTHING FURTHER THAN THAT.
THERE WILL BE OPPORTUNITIES AS FINAL PLAT AND CONSTRUCTION PLANS GO FORWARD FOR SOME ADDITIONAL REVIEWS TO HAPPEN.
UH, THOSE WILL BE UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN IN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION.
BUT THERE ARE SOME OTHER REVIEWS.
BUT AS FAR AS TONIGHT, THE PRELIMINARY PLAT, UH, IF YOU HAVE A CONCERN THAT THE PLAT APPLICATION IS MISSING SOME INFORMATION, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU WOULD CONSIDER FOR DENIAL WITH A DIRECT, UH, REFERENCE TO THE PART OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE THEY HAVEN'T MET.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MAKES IT CLEAR.
I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY MORE QUESTIONS.
IS THERE A MOTION FOR THIS ITEM? CAN IT BE TABLED FOR FURTHER INFORMATION? CERTAINLY.
[00:15:03]
YEAH, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DEADLINE IS ON THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.UM, WE DO HAVE THAT SHOT CLOCK DEADLINE AND THE, ANY TABLING AND POSTPONEMENT HAS TO BE REQUESTED BY THE APPLICANT, NOT BY THE CITY OR THE COMMISSION.
SO I BELIEVE IN REVIEW IT WAS TODAY OR TOMORROW.
YEAH, I THINK IT WAS, BUT IF WE DENY IT, THEY CAN'T COME BACK FOR A CERTAIN NUMBER OF MONTHS.
WELL THE WAY, THE WAY IT WORKS, UM, UH, FOR DENIAL IS WHEN YOU DO THE DENIAL, YOU HAVE TO IN WRITING, GIVE A WRITTEN NOTICE TO THE APPLICANT FOR THE GROUNDS FOR THE DENIAL, SPECIFYING THE PARTICULAR PROVISIONS OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE THAT SERVE AS THE BASIS OF THE DENIAL.
AND THEN THEY HAVE A PERIOD OF TIME TO COME BACK AND REMEDY THAT PROBLEM.
AND THEN WE HAVE 15 DAYS AFTER THAT TO ACT ON THE NEW PLAT APPLICATION.
SO LET ME ADD A LITTLE BIT, UH, OF INFORMATION HERE.
UH, THIS IS THE PRELIMINARY PLAT.
SO THE NEXT STEP, UH, IN OUR PROCESS IS ACTUALLY SUBMITTAL OF THE PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE PLANS.
UH, WE'LL HAVE MORE INFORMATION ON THAT.
IF THE CONCERNED ABOUT ACCESS, YOU CAN PUT A STIPULATION ON THE, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAT TO SHOW IT, UH, ACCESS WITH THE FINAL PLAT AND THEN IT'LL COME BACK AND WE'LL ADDRESS IT THEN.
MR. CARROLL, I'LL JUST ADD AS ACCURATE AS GOOGLE EARTH IS, I'VE MEASURED IN FOUR LOCATION, FOUR LOCATIONS IN ALL FOUR ARE GREATER THAN 26 ON THE PRIVATE DRIVE.
MR. KATES, ANYTHING ELSE? NO, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO WITH THE WAY THE, UH, STATE HAS TIED OUR HANDS ON THESE.
WELL, I THINK THAT THE, YOU KNOW, I, I KNOW OR I LIKE THE ACCESS TOWARDS THE, THE MIDDLE OF THE LOT BLOWING TRAFFIC.
WORRIED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT BECOMES, UM, THERE'S NOT A CONCERN OF, UM, TRAFFIC ON EARTH, WHICH HAS BEEN ONE OF OUR KEY POINTS THAT'S ALLEVIATED.
I FULLY TRUST MR. CARROLL'S MEASUREMENTS THROUGH GOOGLE MAPS THAT IT IS WIDER THAN 26 FEET.
UM, WE CAN PUT A CONDITION INTO THE APPROVAL TO PROVIDE THAT, UM, A PRECISE MEASUREMENT IN THE FUTURE CASE.
UM, BUT THAT WOULD HELP US GET THIS MOVING FORWARD TO THE NEXT STAGE.
COMMISSIONER BUR, AND IF THAT'S A DESIGNATED FIRE LANE AND THERE'S NO PARKING ON ON THAT ROAD.
CORRECT? IT BE JUST LIKE ANY, UH, FIRE LANE THAT WE HAVE? YEAH, THEY'RE STRIPED.
AS LONG AS THEY MEET THAT MINIMUM WIDTH THEY CAN BE STRIPED WITH THAT FIRE LANE AND THAT PARKING ON THE OTHER SIDE.
JUST AS LONG AS THEY MAINTAIN THAT CLEAR SPACE.
YOU WANNA MAKE A MOTION? YEAH, I LIKE THAT REAR ACCESS TOO.
YEAH, I LIKE THE REAR ACCESS AS WELL, BUT NOT AS THE ONLY ACCESS.
THAT'S WHAT CONCERNS ME A LITTLE BIT IS IF THE FIRE LANE IS THE ONLY ACCESS.
SO, WELL, IT'S KIND OF THE GREATER OF ALL THE EVILS.
I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ANOTHER CURB CUT ON HER ROAD MM-HMM.
IT'S WHAT DO, WHAT DO YOU DO? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
COMMISSIONER BIRD MAKES A MOTION TO APPROVE.
SECOND BY COMMISSIONER KELLER.
[4.C. 2026-198 Consider approval for the Scenic Loop Road Business Major Development Plat located at 31905 Interstate 10.]
TO THE SECOND CONSENT AGENDA ITEM.JOANNE MARIE, I THINK THIS ONE IS YOU.
YES, THIS IS, UH, CONSIDER APPROVAL FOR THE CENIC LOOP ROAD BUSINESS MAJOR DEVELOPMENT PLAT LOCATED AT 3 1 9 0 5 INTERSTATE 10.
I AM WITH THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT AND I'LL BE, UH, PRESENTING THE, UH, THE STAFF OVERVIEW ANALYSIS FINDINGS AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS ITEM.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT 3 1 9 0 5
[00:20:02]
INTERSTATE 10 ALONG SCENIC LOOP ROAD.YOU CAN SEE ON THE MAP IT'S OUTLINED IN GREEN.
UH, THE APPLICANT IS BED ZUNI FROM ZAN ENGINEERING REPRESENTING THE PROPERTY OWNER SCENIC CAPITAL LLC.
UH, THE UH, PROPERTY IS APPROXIMATELY 4.254 ACRES AND WITHIN THE, AND IS LOCATED WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.
THIS EXHIBIT SHOWS THE ZONING OF THE SURROUNDING AREA.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ZONE C TWO TRANSITIONAL COMMERCIAL AND IS LOCATED WITHIN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT.
COMMERCIAL ZONING EXISTS ALONG THE I 10 CORRIDOR WHILE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS ARE LOCATED TO THE WEST ALONG SCENIC LOOP HERE.
THE CITY'S FUTURE LAND USE MAP DESIGNATES THE PROPERTY AS AUTO ORIENTED COMMERCIAL.
THIS DESIGNATION IS INTENDED TO SUPPORT HIGHWAY ORIENTED COMMERCIAL AND SERVICE USES ALONG MAJOR TRANSPORTATION CORRIDORS.
THE PROPOSED COMMERCIAL PLA UH, MAJOR DEVELOPMENT PLA IS CONSISTENT WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION.
THIS EXHIBIT SHOWS OUR ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS MAP STAFF DID NOT IDENTIFY ANY ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS THAT WOULD AFFECT DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY.
THE PLAT ESTABLISHES ONE COMMERCIAL LOT ON APPROXIMATELY 4.254 ACRES.
AS I MENTIONED, THE SITE IS INTENDED TO ACCOM ACCOMMODATE THREE ONE STORY COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS.
IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO SEE, BUT THERE'S ONE HERE, HERE AND HERE.
THE PRIMARY ACCESS WILL BE VIA SCENIC LOOP ROAD ON TWO DRIVEWAYS, ONE HERE AND ONE HERE.
THE SECONDARY ACCESS WILL BE FROM SOPHIA COURT.
WITH THE DRIVEWAY ACCESS HERE, THERE ARE ALSO ESTABLISHING A 30 FOOT UTILITY EASEMENT, 20 FOOT DRAINAGE EASEMENT, AND A 0.47 ACRE PRIVATE DRAINAGE EASEMENT, AS WELL AS PEDESTRIAN ACCESS EASEMENTS.
OPEN SPACE AND DRAINAGE AREAS ARE INCORPORATED INTO THE SITE DESIGN.
THROUGH THE PROPOSED DETENTION AND DRAINAGE EASEMENTS.
THE PROPOSED EASEMENTS PROVIDE ADEQUATE SPACE FOR UTILITY AND DRAINAGE INFRASTRUCTURE NECESSARY TO SERVE THE DEVELOPMENT, LANDSCAPING, AND SITE DESIGN DETAILS WILL CONTINUE TO BE REVIEWED DURING THE SITE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS IN ACCORDANCE WITH UDC CHAPTERS FIVE AND EIGHT, AS WELL AS THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT, UH, STANDARDS, WATER, SEWER, AND ELECTRIC SERVICES WILL BE PROVIDED BY THE CITY OF BURNIE.
STAFF FINDS THAT THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS CONSISTENT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLA PLAN.
PLEASE EXCUSE THIS SECOND LINE.
THERE IS NO MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN OR DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IN PLACE WITH THIS PROPERTY, SO I APOLOGIZE THAT NEEDS TO BE STRICKEN.
UM, BUT IT DOES COMPLY WITH THE APPLICABLE SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS AND HAS BEEN REVIEWED BY ALL PERTINENT DEPARTMENTS.
UH, THE RECORDED, IF THE COMMISSION CHOOSES TO APPROVE THE PLAT STAFF RECOMMENDS THE INCLUSION OF THE FOLLOWING STIPULATION.
THE RECORDED PLAT SHALL, SHALL SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO NOT THE PRELIMINARY PLAT, BUT THE SUBMITTAL THAT WAS DATED, UH, MAY 18TH, 2026.
THESE ARE THE MOTIONS FOR CONSIDERATION AND I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
UH, WHAT ARE THE SETBACKS, UH, ALONG CENIC LOOP ROAD? ARE THERE, I I KNOW THAT'S GONNA HAVE TO BE WIDENED AT SOME POINT.
IS THAT BEING TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION? THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS? SO, I APOLOGIZE.
OH, I DON'T KNOW THE SETBACKS, BUT I DO KNOW THERE WAS RIGHT OF WAY DEDICATION WITH THIS PLAT FOR THEIR PORTION, THEIR SIDE OF SCENIC LOOP ROAD.
SO WE HAVE ALL THE RIGHT OF WAY THAT WE WOULD NEED TO MAKE AN APPROPRIATE EXPANSION FOR SCENIC LOOP ON THAT SIDE OF SCENIC LOOP.
AND THEN, UH, THE HIGHWAY CUTS THERE, THE CURB CUTS.
HAVE THOSE BEEN APPROVED AND DO THEY COMPLY WITH ALL OF OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS FOR THAT TYPE ROAD? SO, UH, WE DO HAVE A REGULATION, IT'S A 570 FEET SEPARATION DISTANCE, UH, WHICH THIS DOES NOT MEET.
HOWEVER, THEY WERE ABLE TO MEET OTHER PORTIONS OF THE CODE THAT ALLOWS FOR THESE TWO DRIVEWAYS.
SO FIRST, THE MIDDLE DRIVEWAY ALIGNS WITH THE DRIVEWAY ACROSS THE STREET, AND BY DOING THAT, WHEN YOU HAVE OPPOSING TURNS, YOU'RE MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO BE BLOCKING TRAFFIC.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE TURNING AT THE SAME POINT INTO DRIVEWAYS ACROSS FROM EACH OTHER, THE DRIVEWAY TO THE EAST, UM, DUE TO FIRE CODES, THE FIRE MARSHAL REALLY WANTED TO HAVE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS.
[00:25:01]
AND SO IN ORDER TO LIMIT TURNS AT THAT LOCATION, IT IS A RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT ONLY DRIVEWAY.SO THERE WON'T BE ANY, UH, LEFT TURNS THAT CROSSED THE STREET.
AND WE ENSURED THAT THE DESIGN FOR THAT LOCATION WAS ABLE TO MEET THOSE STANDARDS.
UH, DID YOU SAY THE RIGHT OF WAY HAS BEEN DEDICATED? IS THIS, UH, DID I READ THAT THERE WAS DEDICATION FOR A RIGHT TURN ONLY, UH, LANE ON THIS ONE? OR IS THAT, IS THAT THE ONE THE SPACE IS ALREADY AVAILABLE FOR UH, RIGHT TURN AND IT'S A RIGHT TURN INTO THAT MIDDLE DRIVEWAY.
BUT THAT'S, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE A RIGHT TURN LANE CONSTRUCTED UNLESS THE CITY DOES THAT, CORRECT? NO, WITH THIS PROJECT THERE WILL BE CONSTRUCTION OF A RIGHT TURN LANE.
I WASN'T CLEAR ON THAT FROM READING THIS.
UH, WHAT ABOUT FUTURE EXPANSION TO FOUR LANES? IS THERE ROOM FOR THAT? SO THE, IT'S A COLLECTOR ROAD, RIGHT? SO A COLLECTOR IS, UM, ONE LANE EACH DIRECTION WITH A CONTINUOUS MIDDLE TURN LANE AND THERE IS ENOUGH SPACE FOR THAT.
EVEN WITH THE RIGHT TURN ONLY LANE? YES.
DID THIS LOT, IT DOESN'T HAVE A DRAINAGE DITCH RUNNING EAST TO WEST THROUGH IT DOES IT? SO CURRENTLY THERE IS A DRAINAGE DITCH AND THERE WILL CONTINUE TO BE ONE UNTIL THERE IS IMPROVEMENTS MADE TO THE ENTIRETY OF THE ROAD.
BECAUSE I HAD, UH, IF I RECALL, THIS CAME BEFORE US ONE TIME AND WAS DENIED BECAUSE OF THE DRAINAGE DITCH, WHICH ISN'T EVEN BEING SHOWN ON HERE AS A D ONE OR D TWO.
UM, SO IT'S NOT A DRAINAGE WEIGHT PROTECTION ZONE, IT'S JUST A, LIKE A ROADSIDE SWALE THAT RUNS THROUGH THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY.
THERE ARE NO TPCS ON THE PROPERTY.
YEAH, I KNOW THAT COST ADDITION, Y'ALL REMEMBER THAT COMING TO US WITH, UH, AND THE ISSUE BEING THAT ADDITION, IT MAY HAVE BEEN BEFORE YOU GUYS WERE ON THE COMMISSION.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COMMISSIONER BUR YEAH, THE RIGHT TURN LANE, IS THAT A DESAL LANE? YES.
IS THERE ONE ON THE, BECAUSE I KNOW NISSAN HAS ONE PRIOR TO THE FIRST DRIVEWAY, WILL THERE BE ONE ON THE FIRST DRIVEWAY AS WELL, OR JUST THE SECOND DRIVEWAY? NO, NO, THE SECOND DRIVEWAY.
AND THAT SECOND DRIVEWAY YOU SAY IS ACROSS FROM ANOTHER DRIVEWAY.
IS THAT THE MERCEDES-BENZ? THAT'S THE MERCEDES DEALERSHIP, YES.
UM, ANY POLE, ANY POLE LIGHTS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PROJECT? THE, UH, THE NEIGHBORS IN THE BACK HAVE JUST BEEN HAMMERED WITH CAR DEALERSHIPS IN THE POLE LIGHTS.
AND EVEN WITH DARK SKIES, IT'S, IT'S, UH, WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF COMPLAINTS.
IT DOESN'T LOOK, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING ON HERE NOR, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WOULD BE AT THIS POINT.
YEAH, THERE WOULDN'T BE AT THIS POINT.
THAT WOULD BE AT THE SITE DEVELOPMENT STAGE AND WE WILL ENSURE THAT THEY ARE ADEQUATELY, UM, CUT OFF AT THE PROPERTY LINE SO THERE'S NO LIGHTS OVER OUTSIDE OF THE SITE AND THAT IT MAINTAINS, UH, DARK SKY REGULATIONS.
WOULD WE CONSIDER, UM, A, RIGHT, I MEAN, OR, OR BETTER YET, WHY WOULDN'T A RIGHT TURN LANE BE CONSIDERED ON THE FIRST DRIVEWAY IF WE'RE DOING ONE ON THE SECOND DRIVEWAY AND IF THERE'S ONE ON THE NISSAN DRIVEWAY PRIOR TO THIS ONE? SO I'M NOT, IS DOES THE NISSAN DRIVEWAY ACTUALLY HAVE A RIGHT TURN OR IS IT JUST THE PAVEMENT EXPANSION THAT WAS DONE FOR THE PROJECT? LET'S JUST VIEW THE PAVEMENT EXPANSION.
SO THE NISSAN DEALERSHIP, IT, IT'S ACTUALLY DEDICATED RIGHT AWAY AND THEY IMPROVE THE PAVEMENT, BUT IT'S NOT ACTUALLY A DEDICATED TURN LANE.
IT'S JUST BECAUSE THE ENTIRETY OF THE ROAD ISN'T BUILT.
IT JUST, IT FEELS LIKE IT'S A, A DEDICATED RIGHT TURN LANE.
SO THE REASON WHY THE FIRST DRIVEWAY DOES NOT HAVE A DEDICATED RIGHT TURN LANE.
THE MIDDLE DRIVEWAY HAS KIND OF BEEN DESIGNATED AS LIKE THE MAIN POINT OF ENTRANCE.
AND SO PART OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY IS TO SHOW US WHERE WILL PEOPLE NATURALLY TEND TO WANT TO GRAVITATE TOWARDS PULLING INTO THE DEVELOPMENT.
AND SO IT WAS INDICATED AT THAT DRIVEWAY AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY IT HAS THE DEDICATED TURN LANE.
COMMISSIONER FRY, CAN YOU EXPAND A LITTLE BIT ON, YOU SAID THAT THAT FIRST DRIVEWAY IS RIGHT TURN IN AND ONLY RIGHT.
SO IF THEY COME OUT THERE, THEY'RE LIKELY TRYING TO GET BACK TO I 10.
WHATEVER BUSINESS BUSINESSES ARE GOING ON HERE, THESE PATRONS WOULD PROBABLY BE TRYING TO GET BACK TO THE HIGHWAY.
THERE'S ALREADY A LOT OF CONGESTION AND WITH QUARTERLY FARMS JUST A BIT, YOU KNOW, JUST A WAYS DOWN THE ROAD WITH THOUSANDS OF HOMES COMING, IT'S ONLY GONNA GET WORSE.
AND I WOULD IMAGINE IT'S GONNA GET WORSE LONG BEFORE THE ROAD'S GONNA BE EXPANDED.
SO WHERE, WHERE ARE THEY TURNING BACK AROUND THEN TO GET BACK TO THE HIGHWAY? SO TO TAKE A LEFT TURN, THEY'D HAVE
[00:30:01]
TO USE THE MAIN DRIVEWAY, WHICH IS THAT CENTER DRIVEWAY ON SCENIC LOOP.BUT UNLESS THEY FREQUENT THESE ESTABLISHMENTS REGULARLY, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT FIGURE THAT OUT.
SO I FEEL LIKE WE'RE CREATING A REAL U-TURN PROBLEM.
SO THE RIGHT TURN, THE RIGHT AND RIGHT OUT, IT'S NOT JUST, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A NORMAL DRIVEWAY.
SO IT'S BEEN ENGINEERED TO ENSURE THAT IT IS CURVED TOWARDS THE RIGHT, RIGHT.
GOING IN AND GOING OUT TO PREVENT FOLKS FROM TAKING THAT LEFT TURN.
IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT PEOPLE MIGHT NOT GET CREATIVE SOMETIMES, BUT FOR THE MOST PART PEOPLE SHOULD BE FOLLOWING THAT NATURAL RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT.
BUT WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO, WHERE'S THE MOST REASONABLE TURNAROUND FOR THEM TO GET BACK TO THE HIGHWAY IS THE QUESTION.
'CAUSE THERE'S ALSO A DAYCARE RIGHT HERE AT SOPHIA CIRCLE AND THERE IS ALSO RIGHT AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I'M NOT SURE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE STREET.
SO I'M FEARFUL THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA TURN RIGHT THERE, REALIZE THEY NEED TO TURN AROUND, COME THROUGH SOPHIA'S CIRCLE, AND THEN DO A TURNAROUND RIGHT THERE WHERE THERE'S ALREADY A DAYCARE AND THEN TRYING TO GET BACK OUT.
IT JUST, THAT SEEMS LIKE IT'S CREATING A LOT OF EXCESS CONFUSION THAT IS UNNECESSARY.
SO, AND THE ENTRANCE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY, THEY COULD USE SOPHIA'S CIRCLE, THEY MIGHT TURN ON SOPHIA'S CIRCLE AND TURN AROUND, OR THEY COULD TURN BACK INTO DEVELOPMENT TO COME BACK THROUGH THE MAIN DRIVEWAY.
UM, WE'VE, YOU KNOW, DONE AS MUCH AS WE CAN FOR THE RIGHT WRITE IN, WRITE OUT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEARLY DESIGNATED AS A RIDE IN AND RIDE OUT.
UM, AND IT LOOKS LIKE A WRITE IN AND WRITE OUT THE TRAFFIC STUDY DOESN'T REALLY TAKE FOR ACCOUNT PEOPLE TURNING RIGHT AND THEN NOT UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY COULDN'T GO LEFT NECESSARILY.
WELL IF THOSE, IF THEY HAVE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS OFF SOPHIA'S CIRCLE AND THE, THE SECOND ENTRANCE OFF SCENIC LOOP AND THE TWO SCENIC LOOP ENTRANCES ARE DON'T MEET OUR CODE, DO THEY NEED ALL THREE? SO THE TWO OFF SCENIC LOOP WE INCLUDED BECAUSE THE FIRE MARSHAL NEEDED ACCESS TO ALL OF THE BUILDINGS ON THE SITE BECAUSE IT IS A VERY LONG LINEAR THIN SITE.
IT WAS THE BEST WAY TO ENSURE THAT WE HAD ACCESS FOR OUR FIRST RESPONDERS.
UM, THE ACCESS OFFICE, SOPHIA CIRCLE JUST ALLOWS FOR ANOTHER POINT OF ENTRY.
SO FOR FOLKS WANTING TO GET BACK INTO NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GET OUT ONTO SCENIC LOOP.
THEY COULD USE SOPHIA'S CIRCLE INSTEAD.
SO THAT DIMINISHES THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WOULD BE GOING OUT ONTO SCENIC LOOP.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THAT DETENTION POND LOOKS LIKE? AND AGAIN, I'M, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT EITHER, YOU KNOW, MOSQUITOES, STANDING WATER, IS THAT WATER COLLECTING THERE AND THEN IS IT CONNECTED SOMEWHERE ELSE OR IS IT LITERALLY JUST SITTING AS A POND? SO NO, ALL DETENTION PONDS HAVE TO RELEASE THE WATER OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.
THIS ONE WILL RELEASE TOWARDS THE DRAINAGE SWALE THAT'S A LONG, UM, SCENIC LOOP.
AND THEN IT GOES INTO, UM, IT GOES THROUGH THE S SWES INTO A DRAINAGE SYSTEM.
SO WATER SHOULDN'T BE SITTING THERE.
WATER SHOULDN'T, WATER DOES NOT POND IN DETENTION PONDS.
IT, IT, IT PAWNS FOR SUCH A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO CREATE A MOSQUITO PROBLEM.
UM, AND THEN I SHARED THE SAME CONCERNS ABOUT THE LIGHTING.
SO THE, THIS DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO ALL OF TODAY'S UDC? THAT IS CORRECT.
SO THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE THE DOWN LIGHTING? YES, IT WOULD BE DARK SKY.
YEAH, I JUST REALLY FEEL FOR THE, I'M GLAD THERE'S SOMETHING GOING IN THERE BECAUSE IT'LL LOOK NICER THAN WHAT IT IS, BUT I, I REALLY FEEL BADLY FOR THE RESIDENTS.
'CAUSE THE NISSAN DEALERSHIP UNFORTUNATELY ISN'T AS COOPERATIVE ABOUT THEIR LIGHTING AND THEIR NOISE.
AND IF I COULD ADD, THE UDC DOES ALSO REQUIRE EXTRA BUFFERING SPACE BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL USES.
SO YOU'LL SEE THE OPEN SPACE, IT LOOKS REALLY TINY HERE, BUT IT IS ABOUT, OH, I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF WHAT IT SAY, IT'S ABOUT 10 FEET.
BUT WE ALSO ENSURED THAT THEY DIDN'T PUT ANY BUILDINGS OR THEY DIDN'T PUT ANY PARKING ALONG THERE WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING, UM, WITH THE APPLICANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS ADEQUATE BUFFER BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL USE.
AND WHAT IS THEIR FENCING REQUIREMENTS? DO THEY HAVE TO BE EIGHT FEET? CORRECT.
SO THAT WILL HELP WITH, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A BENEFIT TO THE NEIGHBORS FOR SURE.
WILL WE KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT LOADING ZONE THAT'S RIGHT BELOW LOT 81 DURING THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN PRESENTATION? SO, UM, THERE WON'T BE
[00:35:01]
ANY ADDITIONAL PRESENTATIONS FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT.ONCE THE PLAT, IF THE PLAT IS APPROVED, IT GOES INTO, UM, IT HAS TO MEET THEIR PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE ACCEPTED BY THE CITY AND THEN THEY'LL BE ABLE TO START APPLYING FOR BUILDING PERMITS.
AND SO AT THE BUILDING PERMIT STAGES, WHEN WE ENSURE THAT THEIR LOADING ZONE AND EVERYTHING HAS, UM, IS COMPLIANT WITH THE UDC, THERE ARE SPECIFIC STIPULATIONS AND REGULATIONS THAT, UM, AROUND LOADING ZONES, PARTICULARLY THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE COMPLY WITH.
SO THAT BUFFER BETWEEN THE LOADING ZONE AND THE, THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS THAT'S DICTATED BY THE UDC? YES SIR.
NOISE ABATEMENT, ALL THAT IS MM-HMM
AND WE TRY TO ENSURE THAT WITH THE BUFFER SPACE, THAT IT, IT, UM, IT ACCOMMODATES FOR THAT.
IT DOESN'T LOOK BIG ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE LIKE AN 18 WHEELER.
BUT I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHAT, WHAT THE PLANS WERE FOR THAT LOADING ZONE.
'CAUSE I'M SURE LOADING AND UNLOADING IS GONNA CREATE ADDITIONAL NOISE BEYOND JUST PARKING.
ANY, ANY DUMPSTER UH, LAYOUTS AT THIS STAGE? OR YOU GOT ME THINKING ABOUT THAT WITH NOISE IN THE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD DUMPSTER? YES, I KNOW, UM, SPECIFICALLY WE DO HAVE DUMPER DUMPSTER, UM, BUFFERS LIKE IT, IT HAS TO BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE AWAY FROM ANY RESIDENTIAL USES.
AND SO, AND I KNOW THEY HAD ORIGINALLY PLANNED TO PUT IT HERE AND UM, I REMEMBER WE'VE GONE THROUGH VERY MANY ITERATIONS OF THIS DEVELOPMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT COMPLIES AND DOES RESPECT THE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY TO THE BACK.
SO WE, THEY ORIGINALLY HAD IT HERE.
I THINK THEY PUSHED IT OUT OVER HERE.
I CAN'T, I CAN'T SEE IT NOW, BUT I THINK IT'S PROPOSED TO BE, IT IS ACCOUNTED FOR.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE HAD MANY DISCUSSIONS OVER WITH THE APPLICANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S IN AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION, THAT IT, UM, WON'T CAUSE ANY NUISANCE TO THE NEIGHBORING, UH, RESIDENTIAL AND THEY ARE TIED TO ONE STORY BUILDINGS.
I THINK THAT'S GOOD FOR THE NEIGHBORS TOO.
COMMISSIONER KELLER, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.
IS IT POSSIBLE, UH, WOULD IT ALLEVIATE CONCERNS WHILE ALSO MEETING THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S CRITERIA IF THAT FIRST ENTRANCE OR THE FURTHEST EAST ENTRANCE WAS ENTRANCE ONLY? RIGHT.
AND ONLY WHAT IT IS THAT IS ALSO, THAT COULD ALSO BE A CONSIDERATION.
AND IF IT WAS ENGINEERED WITH SOME TYPE OF CURB OR SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT WHERE YOU COULD ONLY PHYSICALLY GO IN ON THAT SIDE, UH, ON A RIGHT TURN, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE COMMISSIONER FRIAR'S CONCERNS THE PEOPLE TRYING TO FLIP U-TURNS ON SCENIC LOOP ROAD.
I WILL, I WILL SAY I DID I DRIVE BY, WHICH IT SOUNDS LIKE MANY OF YOU ALL HAVE, EXCUSE ME.
AND I WAS PROBABLY ABOUT FOUR O'CLOCK WHEN I DROVE BY THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT TODAY AND TRAFFIC WASN'T HEAVY, BUT IT WAS ALREADY GETTING TO A POINT WHERE IT WAS, I WAS TRYING TO ENVISION WHAT AN ADDITIONAL SPACE WOULD OR DEVELOPMENT WOULD FEEL LIKE.
THE SOPHIA CIRCLE, WHICH IS THE FIRST RITE THAT I TOOK TO TURN AROUND, I NOTICED THE ISLAND, UM, AND TRIED TO PICTURE WHERE THIS ADDITIONAL INGRESS EGRESS WOULD BE AND HOW THE RESIDENTS WOULD FEEL.
UM, I REALLY LIKE THE RIGHT END IDEA ONLY ON THAT FIRST ENTRANCE CLOSEST TO THE NISSAN DEALERSHIP, BUT ALSO THE LOT FEELS EXTREMELY NARROW TO SEEM TO, TO, TO VISUALIZE HOW WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED WOULD FIT HERE.
AND SO THAT, THAT IS REALLY MY SENTIMENTS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, UM, A DEVELOPMENT PLAT.
SO THIS IS DEVELOPER THAT'S COMING IN AND SAYING, HEY, WE'RE MEETING ALL OF THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE UDC AND, BUT THEN ADDING ADDITIONAL DRIVEWAYS FOR, FOR SAFETY.
UM, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE AS WELL.
SO I THINK FIRST ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ASKED HAVE BEEN, UM, EXTREMELY THOROUGH AND, AND, UH, SOME I I HAD NOT THOUGHT OF, BUT SOME REALLY WITH TRAFFIC FLOW WAS AT THE FOREFRONT OF MY MIND.
AND I, AND I FEEL LIKE IT COULD BE A CHALLENGE, ESPECIALLY PLANNING INTO THE FUTURE OF, OF WHAT SCENIC LUKE WILL LOOK LIKE.
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NOW, THE I, BECAUSE I, I CUT UP THAT WAY MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY TO MY OFFICE IN THE, THE NISSAN TRANSPORT COMPANIES THAT ARE HAULING CARS FROM 'EM, LOAD AND UNLOAD RIGHT THERE WHERE, WHERE THAT DRIVEWAY IS.SO MAYBE THAT'LL ELIMINATE THAT HAZARD OF PARKING AN 18 WHEELER OUT THERE.
IS THERE A MOTION? CAN THE MOTION HAVE THAT TIED TO IT? IS THAT POSSIBLE AT THIS STAGE? THE FIRST ENTRANCE BEING RIGHT TURN ONLY? I THINK THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.
I WOULD SUGGEST SOMETHING LIKE ABSOLUTELY AS APPROVED BY THE, UH, CITY ENGINEER.
ALLOW THEM TO ANALYZE IT AND SEE IF IT WORKS AND GO FROM THERE.
SO THAT'S A CONDITION THAT WOULD BE ADDED TO AN APPROVAL.
I WOULD THEN I WOULD MAKE THAT MOTION TO APPROVE WITH THAT CONDITION.
A CONDITION FOR RIGHT TURN ONLY.
RIGHT TURN ONLY AT THE EAST ENTRANCE, ENTRANCE ONLY.
NO EXIT ENTRANCE ONLY, NO, NO EXIT.
NO EXIT WITH A CITY ENGINEER APPROVAL.
AND WE NEEDED TO MAKE ONE CORRECTION CORRECT TO THE STIPULATION THAT YOU ALREADY HAD.
SO THE CORRECTION WOULD BE THAT THE RECORDED PLAT SHALL SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO THE PLATS SUBMITTED AND DATE STAMPED MAY 18TH, 2026.
SO IT'S NOT A PRELIMINARY PLAT, THEY'RE JUST, THEY JUST SUBMITTED THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENT PLAT, WHICH IS WHAT YOU REVIEWED AS PART OF THIS AGENDA ITEM.
AND IT WAS STATES STAMP MAY 18.
SO IT MUST SUBSTANTIALLY, THE RECORDED PLAT MUST SUBSTANTIALLY CONFORM TO WHAT YOU GUYS REVIEWED.
WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KELLER AND, UH, SECOND BY COMMISSIONER KATES.
[5.A. 2026-199 Consider request to allow on-site sewage facility (OSSF) at 123 East Frederick Street (KCAD 36904)]
TO REGULAR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FIVE A TO CONSIDER REQUEST TO ALLOW ONSITE SEWAGE FACILITY AT 1 2 3 EAST FREDERICK STREET.MR. STRINGER, WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE YOUR COMMENT OR YOUR PUBLIC COMMENT AT THIS TIME OR WAIT TILL AFTER? OKAY, PERFECT.
YOU WILL WAIT TILL AFTER, UH, CITY PRESENTATION.
AND ABIGAIL, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.
ABIGAIL KNOTS, CITY ENGINEER FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE.
SO 1 23 FREDERICK STREET IS LOCATED BETWEEN MAINE AND OLD NUMBER NINE IN THE CENTER CITY PORTION OF THE, OF BERNIE.
WE HAVE SEEN THIS ITEM BEFORE, SO IF YOU RECALL, THEY CAME IN MARCH, 2025 TO PRESENT THIS INFORMATION.
AND SO, UH, THEY'VE REVISED AND COME BACK TO SHARE THE FINDINGS OF WHAT, OF THE WORK THEY'VE DONE.
IT'S ZONED COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL.
AND THEY'RE HERE AGAIN TODAY BECAUSE THE DEVELOPMENT ON THE PROPERTY IS REQUIRING IT TO BE PLOTTED.
THERE IS A DRAINAGE PROTECTION ZONE ONE AND TWO IN THE EASTERN PORTION OF THE PROPERTY AS A REFRESHER, THE SEWER MAP FOR THE CITY, UH, AT 1 23 EAST FREDERICK, THE LINE ON FREDERICK STREET STOPS JUST SHORT OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
THE REASON WHY IT STOPS JUST SHORT IS IF IT WERE TO CONTINUE ANY FURTHER, IT WOULD BE ABOVE GRADE AT GRADE, AND SO THE STREET WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SIT IN THE PLA WOULD CHANGE THE ALIGNMENT AT THE STREET.
UH, THE OTHER OPTION FOR CONNECTION RUNS ALONG, UH, OLD NUMBER NINE WHERE THERE IS ANOTHER SEWER MAIN.
SO THE CURRENT SERVICE IS A NONCONFORMING SERVICE.
IT, UH, IS ROUTED THROUGH THE ADJOINING PROPERTY AND THEN TEES INTO THE MAIN WHERE IT DEAD ENDS ON FREDERICK STREET.
SO, UH, OUR UTILITY DEPARTMENT NOW DOES NOT ALLOW LINES TO CROSS THROUGH OTHER LOTS WITHOUT EASEMENTS.
UH, BUT THE PREFERRED ROUTE IS TO GO TO THE MAIN, WHICH WOULD CONNECT AT THE END OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
BUT AGAIN, THE SEWER MAIN IS NOT ABLE TO EXTEND THAT FAR ON FREDERICK STREET.
AND THE REASON WHY WE'RE HERE RELATED TO PLATTING IS THAT EVERY, UM, EVERY LOT TO BE PLATTED MUST HAVE A CONNECTED SEWER SERVICE UNLESS THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION DETERMINES THAT IT'S AN UNREASONABLE EXPENDITURE WHEN COMPARED WITH OTHER METHODS OF SEWER DISPOSAL.
AND SO AT THIS TIME, THEY'VE BROUGHT FORTH TWO OPTIONS,
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WHICH IS AN EXTENSION OF THE SEWER LINE ALONG OLD NUMBER NINE.AND THEN INSTALLATION OF ON SITE SEWAGE FACILITIES.
THE FIRST OPTION, THE EXTENSION OF THE SEWER MAIN ALONG OLD NUMBER NINE, WOULD TAKE THE MAIN UP ALONG OLD NUMBER NINE TO THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY AT 1 23 EAST FREDERICK.
IT'S ABOUT 1,280 FEET EXTENSION OF, UH, THE MAIN, AND IT WOULD BE AT A COST OF ABOUT $200,000.
THE SECOND OPTION FOR ONSITE SEWAGE FACILITIES, UH, WOULD BE ON THE PROPERTY AT EAST FREDERICK STREET AT A COST OF ABOUT $15,000.
WITH EITHER ONE OF THESE OPTIONS, IT WOULD BE A CANCELLATION OF THE NON-CONFORMING SERVICE THAT'S ON THE PROPERTY.
SO THAT WOULD BE REMOVED AND THERE WOULD NO LONGER BE THAT NON-CONFORMING CONNECTION, UH, THROUGH THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
TO OUR MAIN, IF PLANNING AND ZONING SHOULD APPROVE THE REQUESTED WAIVER FOR THE ONSITE SEWAGE AT 1 23 FREDERICK STREET, WE PROPOSE THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS TO BE INCLUDED WITH APPROVAL.
IT WOULD BE THE PROPERTY MUST CONNECT TO CITY SEWER SERVICES WITHIN FIVE YEARS OF SEWER BEING AVAILABLE AND MUST PAY ALL NECESSARY COSTS AND FEES.
THE ONSITE SEWAGE MUST COMPLY WITH ALL REQUIREMENTS AND BE PERMITTED THROUGH KENDALL COUNTY AND THE PROPERTY MUST COMPLY WITH ALL REQUIREMENTS OF THE CITY OF BERNIE AND BE PLATTED WITH THAT.
I WILL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS AND LEAVE THESE MOTIONS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
WOULD WOULD, WOULD THAT BE AN AEROBIC SYSTEM OR A, OR, UH, LATERALS? I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED, BUT I WOULD, I WOULD HOPE THAT PROBABLY MS. STRINGER, WHEN SHE COMES UP, COULD SHARE WITH YOU WHAT THE DETAILS OF THAT ARE.
MS. STRINGER, PLEASE COME FORWARD.
IT WOULD NOT, IT WOULD BE A TRADITIONAL, NOT A, UH, AEROBIC LATERAL SYSTEM.
AND THE CITY, UH, THE COUNTY HAS COME OUT, WE'VE DUG HOLES.
SO I'VE GONE THROUGH A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT, AND, AND I BELIEVE THE PAPERWORKS IN SYSTEM, UH, BLACK WATER TESTED IT.
UH, AND LIKE I SAID, UH, THE COUNTY CAME OUT ALONG WITH MY, UH, SEWER PERSON AND THEY WERE ALL THREE THERE.
WOULD, I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE PREFERRED WITH THE OLD NUMBER NINE.
AND THEN WHAT, WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE, HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO DEVELOP THAT? UH, RIGHT NOW I HAVE TWO OR, UH, TINY HOMES I'VE BROUGHT IN.
AND I PLAN ON BRINGING A FEW MORE INTO THE LEFT OF IT AND THEN IF IT'S ALLOWED ACROSS THE BACK AND THOSE ARE GONNA BE LIKE SALONS OR THEY'RE ALL IN THE BEAUTY, HEALTH AND WELLNESS ARENA, IT'S AN EXTENSION OF MY SALON.
SO THERE'S NO OVERNIGHT USAGE OR SO I, I WOULD NO, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT YOU'D BE CONSIDERED A, A LOW USE YES.
UH, I APPRECIATE YOU COMING BACK TO US.
I KNOW WE HAD A LONG DISCUSSION, GOSH, OVER A YEAR AGO, AND YOU TOOK EVERYTHING, UH, WE SET INTO CONSIDERATION AND, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT.
UH, I HAVE A QUESTION, I THINK FOR STAFF, I, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S, IT'S TOO MUCH OF A BURDEN TO REQUIRE YOU TO BUILD THAT SEWER LINE.
I DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THE FIVE YEAR WAIT.
IF A SEWER LINE, UH, CONNECTION BECOMES AVAILABLE, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF YOU HAVE TO CONNECT WITH THEM FIVE YEARS OF AVAILABILITY AND THEN ALSO WOULD IT BE A RE PART OF THE REQUIREMENT THAT THAT, UH, OSF WOULD'VE TO BE DECOMMISSION UH, DECOMMISSIONED AT, UH, AT, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER'S EXPENSE? SO I BELIEVE FIVE YEARS HAD BEEN ADDED BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO HAVE A TIMEFRAME FOR WHICH A CONNECTION WOULD BE MADE IF IT BECAME AVAILABLE.
BECAUSE THE SEWAGE CONNECTION IS MUCH PREFERRED OVER, UM, ONSITE SEWAGE FACILITIES.
UM, THE STIPULATION, UM, BY CONNECTING TO A SEWAGE FACILITY, IT WOULD BE TO AT LEAST DECOMMISSION THE ONSITE SEWAGE FACILITIES.
BUT OBVIOUSLY WE DIDN'T INCLUDE ANY DETAILS ABOUT REMOVING IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I REALIZE THAT TYING INTO THE CITY SEWERS AS FAR MORE BENEFICIAL.
THAT'S WHY I'M WONDERING, FIVE YEARS SEEMS LIKE A LONG TIME.
IF, IF THE CITY GETS IT THERE AND GETS A CONNECTION, COULD THAT BE CUT BACK TO A YEAR? UH, I THINK THE YEAR THAT WE PUT IN WAS JUST TO HAVE OKAY.
BUT I THINK IT'S UP TO, I MEAN, YOU GUYS TIME TO KEEP RUNNING BUT BUYS IT AS LESS THAN, UH, IDEAL SITUATION.
[00:50:01]
ABOUT THIS AT THE LAST MEETING, FIVE YEARS WAS ALSO BECAUSE THE MONEY I WAS GONNA SPEND TO DO THAT, I SAID FIVE YEARS AT LEAST IT WOULD BE BETTER THAN IF I, IF I USED IT FOR FIVE YEARS, THEN IT WOULD PAY FOR IT.YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T HAVE TO, 'CAUSE I'VE LOOKED INTO EVEN PORTABLES AND REALLY HIGH END PORTABLES TO BRING OUT AND WOW.
UH, I'M GOOD RIGHT NOW, BUT FOR ME TO FURTHER MY BUSINESS, I I JUST NEED MORE WATER MORE.
SO JUST FOR CLARITY FROM THE DATE SEWER SERVICE BECOMES AVAILABLE, MS. STRINGER HAS FIVE YEARS TO TAP INTO THAT OR YEAH, I BELIEVE THAT'S HOW IT'S OKAY.
BECAUSE IT'LL BE QUITE EXPENSIVE AS WELL.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE SEEN THE PROPERTY, BUT TO GET PIPING DOWN TO THE OLD NUMBER, NINE'S GONNA BE PRETTY PRICEY TOO.
SO FOR THE ONE AND THEN THAT ONE, AND THEN OF COURSE I WOULD TAKE THE TRADITIONAL OUT.
I HAVE SOME OTHER PROPERTY ON ADLER AND UH, I'VE DONE THAT.
I HAD ONE AND THEY CAME IN AND COLLAPSED IT.
BUT THAT WOULD ONLY OCCUR IF THE CITY DECIDED THAT SEWER SERVICE WAS NEEDED NEARBY OR ADJACENT.
SO I, I WILL SAY A FIVE YEAR TIMEFRAME IS NOT COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE IN THE FACT THAT RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY THAT'S LOOKING FOR SERVICE IN THAT AREA.
AND SO SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TO COME IN, GO THROUGH DEVELOPMENT PLATING OCS AND THE AGREEMENT TO EXTEND IT UP TO THAT POINT CONSTRUCTION.
AND SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A TIMEFRAME THAT PROBABLY COULDN'T BE DONE IN A YEAR.
UM, I'M, I THINK I'M CONFUSED.
I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE A SEWER CONNECTION THERE IN FIVE YEARS.
NO, BUT YOU WANT IT TO BE LONGER.
BUT WHAT I AM SEEING AND WHAT YOU'RE RECOMMENDING, IF A SEWER CONNECTION GETS THERE IN 10 YEARS, SHE HAS FIVE YEARS FROM THE DATE IT GETS THERE TO CONNECT TO.
THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE TIMEFRAME IS TOO LONG.
WHAT IF, YEAH, WHAT IF WE TACKLE THIS FROM A DIFFERENT DIRECTION? SO IF YOU'RE GONNA SPEND, WHAT, $15,000 ON AN ONSITE? HOPEFULLY, WELL, WELL WHAT IF, SO LET'S JUST SAY 15 TO 20 THOU INSTEAD OF FIVE YEARS TO CONNECT.
WHY DON'T WE JUST GIVE YOU FIVE YEARS ON YOUR SYSTEM? THAT WAY YOU CAN DEPRECIATE IT OVER 60 MONTHS AND THEN IF AND AFTER THAT FIVE YEARS WHEN THE SEWAGE, WHEN THE CITY EXTENDS THAT LINE, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO CONNECT WITHIN SIX MONTHS OR SOMETHING.
I MEAN, 'CAUSE YOU HAVE THE FIVE YEARS TO WRITE OFF YOUR INVESTMENT ON THE SYSTEM THAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN, WHICH SHOULD BE PLENTY.
I THINK IT'LL TAKE LONGER THAN SIX MONTHS FOR ME TO GET IT PIPED DOWN THOUGH.
WELL, I THINK IT'S ALSO GONNA TAKE LONGER THAN FIVE YEARS FOR THE CITY TO ATTEND.
I I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.
MR. CRANE HAD ASKED FOR ME TO LOOK UP MAYBE A YEAR I, AND I WENT AND LOOKED UP ALL THE ADJOINING PROPERTIES THAT WAS UTILIZED THAT, AND NO ONE'S BUDGED.
SO MAY MAYBE FIVE YEARS AND THEN A YEAR TO CONNECT.
WOULD THAT BE REASONABLE? I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE.
BUT MR. BYRD, IF IT'S NOT DONE IN FIVE YEARS, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? IN OTHER WORDS, IF THERE'S NO SEWAGE DOWN, I JUST KEEP USING IT.
IT GOES ON UNTIL IT'S AVAILABLE AND THEN YOU HAVE A YEAR TO CONNECT.
BUT MY EXPERIENCE IS IF THERE'S NOTHING ON THE BOOKS RIGHT NOW FOR THAT LINE, YOU GOT PLENTY OF TIME.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? SUE? IF I PUT MYSELF IN YOUR SHOES, I'M STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT WITH THE FACT THAT YOU LIVE IN AN, THIS IS AN OLDER AREA OF TOWN AND YOU PAY CITY TAXES.
AND THE CITY IS NOT PROVIDING YOU A BASIC SERVICE.
WHAT IS BEING DONE AND, AND YOU'RE BEING REQUIRED, AND I REALIZE YOU'RE DEVELOPING A PROPERTY.
HAS THIS PROPERTY ALWAYS BEEN THIS SAME SIZE LOT OR WERE THESE SMALLER LOTS THAT HAVE THEN BEEN COMBINED? NO, IT WAS ALL BIGGER THAN THAT.
SO RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE FIRE STATION, THAT LONG BUILDING WAS A FAMILY AND ALL THE WAY BACK TO OLD NUMBER NINE WAS THEIR LAND.
SO IT WAS LIKE A RANCH, A LITTLE W RANCHING DUCK.
AND THEN IT GOT BROKEN UP WHEN THEY, WHATEVER.
SO THE FRONT AND THEN ONE PERSON OWNED ALL THAT, MY SALON, A LITTLE CABIN THAT IS IN A REALLY BAD SHAPE, ALL THE STUFF IN THE FRONT OF ME.
AND THEN THEY PUT ALL THAT UP FOR AUCTION AND THEN IT GOT SPLIT UP THREE WAYS.
AND HOW MANY YEARS AGO HAS THAT BEEN? I BOUGHT THAT IN 95.
IF WE GO BACK TO THE MAP OF WHERE THE CURRENT CITY SEWER LINES ARE, HOW ARE ALL THOSE OTHER LOTS GETTING SEWER, SEWER SERVICE BETWEEN RICHTER AND FREDERICK?
[00:55:01]
HOW ARE THEY TAPPING IN? ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE LOTS ALONG FREDERICK OR EVEN ALONG MAIN, LIKE, BUT WHAT ANY OF THOSE PARCELS BETWEEN RICHTER AND FREDERICK STREET, BETWEEN MAIN AND OLD NUMBER NINE, HOW ARE THEY BEING SERVICED? OR ARE THEY, IS THERE NOTHING THERE? THERE'S NOTHING THERE.AND SO THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO SERVICES EITHER.
SO THE RESIDENCE, I HONESTLY CAN'T SPEAK ABOUT ANY OF THE UTILITY SERVICES OUT IN THE AREA.
I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH EVERYBODY OFF MAIN STREET USES BURNING SEPTIC AND IT COMES, IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THOSE BUILDINGS USE, YOU KNOW, THE SEPTIC COMES DOWN MAIN.
SO THEY HAVE TO TAP INTO MAIN STREET.
AND THEN IT TURNS ON FREDERICK THERE AND COMES DOWN RIGHT BY MY SALON.
AND THEN THERE'S NOTHING BEHIND US.
SO IS THERE ANYTHING, I MEAN, DOES THE CITY OFFER, I'M PROBABLY CREATING A HORNET'S NEST, BUT IS DOES THE CITY OFFER SOMETHING TO OFFSET? I MEAN, WE'RE ASKING HER TO PROVIDE SEWER TO HER LOT IN TOWN, AND THEN WE'RE ALSO ASKING HER TO BEAR ANOTHER LARGE EXPENSE TO TAP IN AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.
SO IS AS PART OF THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT, I BELIEVE IT IS THE DEVELOPER'S OBLIGATION TO PROVIDE THE SEWER SERVICE.
SO WHETHER THAT'S AN EXTENSION OF THE MAIN UP TO THEIR LOT SO THAT THEY CAN CONNECT.
I BELIEVE THAT'S HOW THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN.
SO SEWER IMPROVEMENTS ARE FUNDED THROUGH CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS.
THEY'RE NOT FUNDED THROUGH PROPERTY TAXES.
SO THEY'RE FUNDED THROUGH USER RATES.
AND SO THAT'S WHY THE REQUIREMENT IS, HEY, IF YOU'RE BUILDING SOMETHING NEW, INSTEAD OF PUTTING THAT COST TO SERVE THAT PROPERTY THAT'S NEW ON ALL THE RATE USERS, UH, IT'S ON THE PERSON CREATING THE IMPACT.
SO SHE WILL HAVE NO SEWER BILL.
SO MR. CRANE, IT'S FAIR TO ASSUME THAT, AND JUST BY LOOKING AT, LET'S SAY AT THE END OF RICHTER, THERE ARE PROPERTIES THAT DON'T HAVE SEWER SERVICE PROVIDED, UM, BY THE CITY.
I MEAN, IN MY I THINK FIVE YEARS ON PLANNING AND ZONING, WE'VE NOT EXPERIENCED A SITUATION LIKE THIS.
SO IT, IT WOULD BE SAID THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, KIND OF CREATING THE PRECEDENT OF HOW THESE MIGHT BE HANDLED IN THE FUTURE AS WELL.
UM, THIS IS THE EASIEST WAY, UH, FOR MS. STRINGER TO HANDLE IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WITH A MINIMAL COST.
BUT AS WE HAVE THESE SITUATIONS COME UP, IS, IS THAT THE CONTINUED WAY? IF SOMEBODY WERE TO GO GET A BUILDING PERMIT, WOULD IT BE SAID LIKE, HEY, YOU HAVE A NON-CONFORMING WELL, THEY WOULDN'T COMPLY.
THEY WOULDN'T COMPLY WITH ANY, UH, WHAT AM I PUBLIC UTILITY REQUIREMENTS THAT WE HAVE.
SO IN, IN EACH SITUATION'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, UH, UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU HAVE TWO, TWO THINGS THAT ARE CONTRIBUTING IN IT.
UH, YOU HAVE THE SEWER LINE IN FREDERICK THAT'S TOO SHALLOW TO CONNECT.
UH, AND WITHOUT RECONSTRUCTING THAT WHOLE LINE, OR EVEN PLUS THERE'S OTHER IMPROVEMENTS DOWNSTREAM THAT WOULD NEED TO BE DONE.
AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE ONE WHERE IT FLOWS TO THE, UH, REAR.
UH, SO THERE COULD BE OTHER PROPERTIES THAT ARE, THAT COME FORWARD AND ASK FOR THIS.
UM, HOWEVER, MAYBE TOTALLY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE, HEY, YOU JUST HAVE TO CROSS MAIN.
I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO, BUT YOU HAVE TO CROSS MAIN AND THEY'RE, THANK YOU.
SO THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
I THINK THIS IS A INTRIGUING POINT IF, UH, OR A MOMENT OF REALIZATION FOR ME, ASSUMING THAT EVERYBODY HAS ACCESS TO SERVICES.
IF, IF YOU LEAVE YOUR PROPERTY, IF YOU JUST LEAVE IT ALONE THAT NOTHING HAPPENS, RIGHT.
THE MINUTE YOU WANNA DEVELOP IT, THEN UM, WE HAD A CONVERSATION AROUND, NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE EASEMENT, UH, BUT ABOUT A LIFT STATION LAST YEAR, THEN THEY DON'T WANT ME TO DO THAT ANYMORE.
SO IT'S, THAT'S NOT AN IDEAL SITUATION FOR THE UTILITY SERVICE.
AND SO IT IT'S NOT A PREFERRED CONNECTION METHOD FOR THEM.
I DON'T LIKE THEM MYSELF, BUT, UM, I, I JUST REMEMBER THAT WE HAD A CONVERSATION, UH, CONVERSATION AROUND THAT, THAT WAS ON THE AGENDA LAST TIME.
AND THEN AFTER MORE VISITS AND STUFF, IT'S JUST THE CITY WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE LIFT STATIONS AND THE LIFT STATION.
I, I DID GO BACK AND I, I LISTENED ON LIKE TWO TIMES SPEED THE VIDEO OF OUR LAST MEETING ABOUT THIS, UM, TODAY.
AND THAT, JUST TO CLARIFY, THAT LIFT STATION WOULD'VE BEEN IF YOU TEED OFF AT THE EXISTING WHERE THE SEWER CURRENTLY ENDS NOW.
IF YOU TEED OFF THERE AT A 90 AND CAME INTO THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY AND DID THE UTILITY EASEMENT ACROSS,
[01:00:01]
THAT'S WHERE THE LIFT STATION WAS GONNA BE REQUIRED.NO, IT WOULD'VE BEEN, I HAVE A LIFT STATION.
THAT'S HOW I'M GETTING A TOILET THERE RIGHT NOW.
AND IT IS ON, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO POINT A FINGER ON THIS LITTLE THING, BUT HAVE YOU DRIVEN BY THIS? WE GO BACK TO THE, GO BACK A FEW SLIDES.
THE KEY HERE IS THE EXISTING LIFT STATION SERVES WHAT'S ON THE PROPERTY TODAY.
IT CANNOT SERVE ADDITIONAL FLOW, DOESN'T HAVE CAPACITY FOR ADDITIONAL FLOW, ADDITIONAL CAPACITY.
AND SO, UH, THAT WHOLE SYSTEM WOULD BE UPGRADED FROM THAT.
THE ONE, THE ONE SLIDE THAT YOU GOT THAT YOU, ARE YOU WANTING TO GO TO THE OVERALL YEAH, KEEP GOING.
UH, THAT WOULD ALL NEED TO BE UPGRADED FROM THAT FROM THE STAR ON WILL.
SO WILL THE, WILL THE EXISTING STAY IN PLACE OR WILL IT ALL? NO, IT'LL ALL BE, IT'LL BE, IT'LL ALL MOVE
I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY CHOICE.
COMMISSIONER VER WOULD YOU LIKE TO REFRAME YOUR MOTION? YEAH.
UM, I MOVE THAT THE PLAINTIFF'S UNDER COMMISSION, UH, APPROVE THE REQUEST TO ALLOW ONSITE SEWAGE WITH THE CAVEAT THAT WE, UH, PUT IT ON A FIVE YEAR TIMEFRAME FOR DEPRECIATION ONCE IT'S COMPLETED.
AND THEN WITH A ONE YEAR, UH, STIPULATION TO CONNECT ONCE, UM, THE EXTENSION IS AVAILABLE ON THE OLD NUMBER NINE.
I THINK THAT'S FAIR AND REASONABLE.
MAY I REQUEST YOU ADD A STIPULATION SURE.
THAT THE, UH, IF THAT HAPPENS, THE EXISTING OSF SYSTEM BE DECOMMISSIONED AND REMOVED.
AND, AND HAVE THE, THE, THE ONSITE SYSTEM REMOVED IS HAVE THE TANK REMOVED AND UM, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO ANYWAY, IF YOU'RE GOING TO WELL YEAH.
IT, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA HAPPEN ANYWAY, BUT YEAH.
IS THAT APPROPRIATE? THAT'S GREAT.
CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION? DO YOU FEEL THAT ONE YEAR TO TAP IN IS FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE? I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN THAT'S, IF IT'S FIVE YEARS, 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, IT'S GONNA BE A LOT DIFFERENT THAN LIKE, IF I HAD TO DO IT IN SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR.
YEAH, PROBABLY NOT, BECAUSE I THINK IT'S GONNA BE QUITE PRICEY.
WELL YOU GET FIVE YEARS, SO WE KNOW YOU HAVE FIVE YEARS.
THAT COULD BE SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S NO LESS THAN FIVE.
AND WHAT I WOULD DO IS YOUR GRANDKIDS COULD BE DOING IT.
HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, IF, IF, IF THE CITY WAS GONNA EXTEND DOWN THE OLD NUMBER NINE, HOW LONG WOULD THAT PROJECT TAKE? IS THAT A SIX MONTH PROJECT? A TWO YEAR PROJECT A YEAR.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S SO YOU'D KNOW FOR A YEAR FROM KNOWING ABOUT IT UNTIL IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.
WE'RE TALKING MAYBE OVER TWO YEARS TIME.
'CAUSE AGAIN, IT'S GOTTA GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF PLATTING.
PUBLIC IMPROVEMENTS AND THEN
SO YOU KNOW IT'S COMING AND THEN IT'S BEING CONSTRUCTED.
AND THEN THERE'S A LOT OF PROPERTY THAT FALLS INTO THIS CATEGORY I OWN TOO.
ONCE I GET ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BUILD BACK THERE AND NEED SEWAGE, THEN IT'S FINE.
THANK YOU MR. THANKS FOR YOUR WORK ON THIS.
[5.B. 2026- 200 Consider a request for a variance to Chapter 7-5.A.2, Access Separation Distances, of the Unified Development Code (UDC) for a property located at 8 Ranger Creek Road (KCAD 12937).]
AGENDA ITEM B REQUEST.CONSIDER REQUEST FOR VARIANCE TO CHAPTER SEVEN THROUGH FIVE A TWO ACCESS SEPARATION DISTANCES OF A UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR A PROPERTY.
YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF ME TONIGHT.
SO, EIGHT RANGER CREEK ROAD IS LOCATED ON THE NORTH END OF BERNIE.
IT IS TO THE WEST OF I 10 AND TO THE EAST OF BERNIE LAKE.
THE PROPERTY OWNER IS SK HOLDINGS.
UH, THE REPRESENTED TODAY BY SEAN BEAN.
IT IS APPROXIMATELY 4.2 ACRES OVER THREE LOTS AND SO THE LOTS ARE LAID OUT HERE FOR YOU.
UM, UH, TO REFERENCE THE CURRENT ZONING, THERE IS NO ZONING.
IT IS OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS.
PREVIOUS USE WAS VACANT AND THE PROPOSED USE
[01:05:01]
IS UNDETERMINED FOR PLATTING PURPOSES.SO YOU'RE AWARE THE, THE FIRST LOT NUMBER ONE IS 1.91 ACRES.
IT IS UN PLATTED AND IT WAS REMOVED FROM THE ETJ IN APRIL, 2020, 26.
LOT NUMBER TWO IS 1.38 ACRES AND PART OF THE SLO OAK SUBDIVISION AND LOT THREE IS 0.91 ACRES.
UM, PLOT DRIVEWAY ACCESS FOR THE PROPERTIES, UH, ARE ALONG RANGER CREEK ROAD AND OAK ACRES LANE, RANGER CREEK ROAD IS A CITY MAINTAINED ROADWAY.
SO WHILE MOST OF THIS AREA IS IN THE CITY'S ETJ, THE CITY LIMITS ACTUALLY RUNS ALONG RANGER CREEK ROAD TOWARDS BURN LAKE.
IT IS CLASSIFIED AS A COLLECTOR ROAD IDENTIFIED ON BOTH THE CITY AND COUNTY MAJOR THIRD FAIR PLANS.
IT IS APPROXIMATELY 28 FEET WIDE.
AND THE REASON, UH, WE'RE BRINGING THIS TO YOU TODAY IS WHILE THIS WOULD FALL UNDER COUNTY PERMITTING, IT WOULD REQUIRE A RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT WITH THE CITY OF BURN.
AND THAT IS THE ONLY TIME THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO COME TO THE CITY OF BURN FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT.
OAK ACRES LANE IS A COUNTY MAINTAINED LOCAL ROADWAY.
SO THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT FOR LOT ONE, WE'VE SEEN SOME VARIATIONS OF OFFICE, WAREHOUSE, OR PICKLEBALL.
LOT TWO IS UNKNOWN AND THERE'S BEEN NOTHING PROPOSED FOR THIS LOT CURRENTLY.
LOT THREE HAS BEEN PROPOSED AS A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL LOT.
A TRAFFIC IMPACT ASSESSMENT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE CITY OF BURN AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION.
IN IT, YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY'VE DONE AN ANALYSIS FOR PEAK HOUR, UH, TURNS AN ANALYSIS FOR TURNS COMING IN AND OUT OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
THE LAYOUT AS IT IS RIGHT NOW HAS ONE DRIVEWAY TO RANGER CREEK ROAD AND THEN TWO DRIVEWAYS ALONG OAK ACRES LANE.
THE DRIVEWAY FOR RANGER CREEK ROAD IS PROPOSED AS SHARED ACCESS BETWEEN LOTS THREE AND LOTS ONE CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR ACCESS.
THERE ARE MINIMUM SEPARATION DISTANCES ALONG COLLECTOR ROADS.
FOR THE CITY OF BURNEY IT IS 570 FEET.
WE MEASURE THESE DISTANCES BETWEEN TWO POINTS FROM EITHER DRIVEWAY TO DRIVEWAY OR DRIVEWAYS TO INTERSECTIONS.
AND SO IN THIS CASE, THE SEPARATION DISTANCE IN QUESTION IS BETWEEN OAK ACRES, ACRES LANE AND THE DRIVEWAY PROPOSED ON RANGER CREEK ROAD, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY 320 FEET AS PROPOSED.
THE CRITERIA FOR VARIANCE APPROVAL VERY QUICKLY WILL RUN THROUGH THAT.
WHEN A VARIANCE IS GRANTED, ALL OF THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS ARE TO BE MET, UH, UNNECESSARY HARDSHIPS, WHICH DON'T INCLUDE FINANCIAL HARDSHIP.
SUCH VARIANCES WILL NOT AUTHORIZE THE OPERATION OF A USE OTHER THAN THE ONES AUTHORIZED.
THE P TO THE PROPERTY OWNER FOR WHICH THE VARIANCE IS SOUGHT IS DUE TO UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE PROPERTY.
THE VARIANCE WILL NOT SUBSTANTIALLY WEAKEN THE GENERAL PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE AND IT WILL NOT ADVERSELY IMPACT PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, OR WELFARE.
IF PLANNING AND ZONING SHOULD APPROVE THE REQUESTED VARIANCE TO ACCESS SPACING ON RANGER CREEK ROAD, IT IS RECOMMENDED BY STAFF THAT THE FOLLOWING STIPULATIONS BE OUTLINED AND INCLUDED WITH THE APPROVAL.
FIRST, A RECORDED CROSS ACCESS EASEMENT IN FORM ACCEPTABLE TO THE CITY ENGINEER AND CITY ATTORNEY SHALL BE EXECUTED AND RECORDED PRIOR TO A RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT ISSUANCE, ENSURING PERPETUAL SHARED ACCESS BETWEEN LOT ONE AND LOT THREE AS INDICATED IN THE PREVIOUSLY IN THE PRESENTATION, A DECELERATION LANE ON RANGER CREEK ROAD MEETING.
THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL SHALL BE DESIGNED AND CONSTRUCTED AS PART OF THE RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT.
THE APPLICANT SHALL PROVIDE OR DEDICATE SUFFICIENT RIGHT OF WAY TO ACCOMMODATE THE DECELERATION LANE AND REQUIRED 10 FOOT CLEARANCE BEHIND THE BACK CURB.
THIRD, THE APPLICANT SHALL DEMONSTRATE THAT THE REQUIRED 445 FOOT INTERSECTION SITE OF DISTANCE PER THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL IS ACHIEVABLE AT THE PROPOSED DRIVEWAY LOCATION.
ANY SIGHT LINE TRIANGLE EXTENDING BEYOND THE RIGHT OF WAY SHALL BE IDENTIFIED AND DEDICATED AS A CLEAR VISION EASEMENT PER THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL.
FOURTH DRIVEWAY THROAT LENGTH SHALL BE DESIGNED FOR THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL BASED ON CONFIRMED PEAK HOUR TRIPS BASED UPON PROVIDED PEAK HOUR TRIP WORKSHEETS.
AND LASTLY, CONSISTENT WITH THE VARIANCE APPLICATION APPROVAL IS CONTINGENT UPON ISSUANCE OF ALL REQUIRED PERMITS AND APPROVAL OF PUBLIC IMPROVEMENT PLANS.
NO RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT SHALL BE ISSUED UNTIL THE SHARED ACCESS EASEMENT IS RECORDED.
AND ALL ENGINEERED IMPROVEMENT PLANS ARE APPROVED BY THE CITY ENGINEER AND DEVELOPMENT
[01:10:01]
PLANS HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY KENDALL COUNTY.AND WITH THAT, I WILL ACCEPT ANY QUESTIONS AND BRING MOTIONS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
THERE MAY BE A RECORD OF STIPULATIONS THAT I'VE EVER SEEN.
THANK YOU FOR TOUGHING THROUGH THAT.
I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR COMMISSION COMMENTS OR IF, UM, MR. BEAN, DID YOU WANNA HAVE ANY, MAKE ANY COMMENTS FIRST? YEP.
DO I NEED TO HAND THESE TO YOU CAN HAND IT.
MR. BEANS FIT YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND CONSIDERATION IN SERVICE TO THE CITY OF BERNIE AND THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.
I SINCERELY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH YOU TODAY REGARDING MY REQUEST FOR A DRIVEWAY VARIANCE.
UH, FIRST AND FOREMOST, I WANNA EXPRESS MY GRATITUDE FOR THE WORK THIS COMMISSION DOES TO BALANCE PROPERTY RIGHTS, PUBLIC SAFETY, AND RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPMENT.
I UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS THAT GUIDE GROWTH IN OUR COMMUNITY.
AND I'M REQUESTING THIS VARIANCE ONLY BECAUSE OF A UNIQUE SITUATION THAT REQUIRES A PRACTICAL AND SAFE SOLUTION.
WE'VE BEEN WORKING CLOSELY WITH CLAY FORSTER, WITH KENDALL COUNTY FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT.
THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION PRESENTS UNUSUAL PHYSICAL AND LAYOUT CONSTRAINTS THAT ARE NOT TYPICAL OF SURROUNDING PARCELS DUE TO THE CONFIGURATION OF THE ADJACENT LOTS EXISTING ROADWAY ACCESS LIMITATIONS, FRONTAGE CONDITIONS, AND A PORTION OF THE PROPERTY THAT STILL REMAINS WITHIN THE ETJ PRACTICAL ACCESS CANNOT BE ACHIEVED THROUGH A STANDARD DRIVEWAY ARRANGEMENT WITHOUT THE REQUESTED VARIANCE, THE PROPERTY WOULD EFFECTIVELY BE LANDLOCKED OR SUBJECT TO, TO ACCESS CONDITIONS THAT ARE LESS SAFE AND IMPRACTICAL.
THESE CIRCUMSTANCES WERE NOT CREATED BY ME AS THE APPLICANT.
THEY'RE THE RESULT OF EXISTING SUBDIVISION LAYOUTS, PRIOR DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS AND ROADWAY PLACEMENT THAT HAS EVOLVED OVER TIME.
MY REQUEST IS NOT BASED ON CONVENIENCE, BUT ON NECESSITY WE MUST ESTABLISH A VIABLE ACCESS SOLUTION FOR THE PROPERTY WHILE MAINTAINING THE HIGHEST STANDARDS OF SAFETY.
THE DRIVEWAY LOCATION PROPOSED IN THIS VARIANCE REQUEST, UH, REQUEST PRESENTS THE MINIMUM DEVIATION NECESSARY TO PROVIDE SAFE AND FUNCTIONAL ACCESS.
IT IS ALSO THE SAFEST OPTION AVAILABLE FROM A VISIBILITY STANDPOINT.
THE PROPOSED LOCATION PROVIDES BETTER SITE DISTANCE, GREATER SEPARATION BETWEEN ACCESS POINTS AND SAFER INGRESS AND EGRESS THAN ANY ALTERNATIVE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE.
EQUALLY IMPORTANT, THE PROPOSED DRIVEWAY ARRANGEMENT IMPROVES ACCESS FOR EMERGENCY RESPOND RESPONDERS, FIRE, EMS LAW, ENFOR ENFORCEMENT, AND OTHER EMERGENCY SERVICES SERVING BOTH PROPERTIES WILL BENEFIT FROM SAFER AND MORE RELIABLE ACCESS.
IN MY VIEW, SAFETY FROM A VISIBILITY STANDPOINT AND FIRST RESPONDER ACCESS ARE THE STRONGEST REASONS TO SUPPORT THE VARIANCE, AS IN IT DIRECTLY PROMOTES PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE, WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL INTENTION OF THE CODE FOR DRIVEWAY SPACING.
GRANTING THIS VARIANCE REMAINS CONSISTENT WITH THE GOALS AND POLICIES OF THE UDC AND BY ENABLING REASONABLE AND FUNCTIONAL USE OF THE PROPERTY, THE INTENT OF THE DRIVEWAY STANDARDS WAS NEVER TO CREATE INACCESSIBLE OR UNUSABLE PROPERTIES.
AND IN THIS CASE, THE STRICT APPLICATION OF THE STANDARD WOULD PRECISELY PRODUCE THAT RESULT.
FOR REFERENCE, THE LEMON CREEK DEVELOPMENT WHERE THERE'S RETAIL AND RESTAURANT PAD SITES THAT ARE COMING OFF I 10 ACCESS ROAD IN COMPARISON TO THE RANCHER CREEK ROAD, UM, LEMON CREEK HAS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE TRAFFIC THAN THIS SITE WILL.
LEMON CREEK WILL HAVE CURB CUTS AND ENTRANCES THAT ARE LESS THAN 500 FEET.
THIS REQUEST IS A PRACTICAL SOLUTION TO A UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE.
IT ALLOWS THE PROPERTY TO REMAIN ACCESSIBLE, USABLE, AND SAFE WITHOUT PRESERVING THE UNDERLYING PURPOSE AND INTENT OF THE REGULATIONS.
DENIAL OF THIS VARIANCE WOULD CREATE ACCESS CHALLENGES THAT WOULD RESULT IN A LEFT SAFE AND LESS FUNCTIONAL SOLUTION FOR RESIDENTS, VISITORS, AND EMERGENCY RESPONDERS ALIKE.
I RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR APPROVAL FOR THIS VARIANCE REQUEST.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME, YOUR THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION AND YOUR CONTINUED SERVICE TO OUR COMMUNITY.
I TRULY APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT TODAY.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE? UM, JUST ON THE HANDOUTS THAT YOU HAVE THERE.
I KNOW SOME OF THIS IS, UH, HARD TO VISIBLY SEE, BUT WE'RE AT 320 FEET FROM OAK ACRES LANE TO THE, UH, MIDDLE DRIVEWAY THAT WAS THERE PREVIOUSLY FOR A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE.
YOU GOT 12 FEET, UM, FOR THAT DRIVEWAY AND THEN YOU GOT ANOTHER 320 FEET UNTIL THE NEIGHBORING DRIVEWAY, UM, OF THE HOUSE THAT IS POSITIONED THERE.
AND THEN THAT RESIDENTIAL LOT THAT WILL BE LANDLOCKED IF THERE IS NOT A, THERE WILL NEED TO BE A DRIVEWAY FOR THAT TRIANGLE PIECE, WHICH IS THE, THE THIRD ONE.
[01:15:01]
UH, THAT DRIVEWAY DISTANCE THAT'S RIGHT THERE ON THE CORNER TO THE EXISTING HOUSE DRIVEWAY IS 110 FEET.CAN WE GO BACK TO THE IMAGE THAT YOU HAVE THAT SHOWS LOT ONE, TWO, AND THREE WITH THE YELLOW BOUNDARY LINES? THAT WAS A GOOD VISUAL THERE.
SO THE APPLICANT, I BELIEVE IS LOOKING FOR ALL ENTRANCES TO BE ON RANGER CREEK ROAD.
IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? THERE'S ONE ON EIGHT.
SO THERE'S THE MAP THAT SHOWS ALL THE ACCESS POINTS PROPOSED JUST FOR LOT ONE.
THERE'S ONLY, AND AND THREE, WHICH IS THE SHARE OF USE.
SORRY, WHERE DO WE GO? THERE'S ONLY ONE ENTRANCE BEING PROPOSED ON RANGER CREEK, WHICH WOULD BE THAT, WHERE THAT DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN ONE AND THREE IS THAT WE'D GIVE AN EASEMENT THROUGH THAT DRIVEWAY INTO LOT THREE SO THAT THERE WOULD NOT NEED TO BE ANY OTHER DRIVEWAY ON RANGER CREEK.
SO THERE WOULD ONLY BE ONE AND LOTS.
TWO AND THREE ARE STILL IN THE ETJ LOT.
ONE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT IS OUT OF THE ETJ.
I, I GUESS WHAT I HEARD AND, AND READ A FEW TIMES WAS THIS LAND LOCK WORD AND I SEE RANGER CREEK AND OAKERS SURROUNDING THREE SIDES OF IT ALL.
SO I WAS, BEFORE I OPENED IT UP TO COMMISSION DISCUSSION, WANTED TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND PRECISELY WHERE THAT IDEA COMES FROM.
THAT THERE'S A LANDLOCKED LOT, LOT, LOT THREE WOULD NOT HAVE ANY DRIVEWAY ACCESS UNLESS IT CAME THROUGH LOT TWO FROM OAK ACRES, ACRES WITH AN EASEMENT.
IS THAT FAIR? UH, I MEAN, I I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU AT YOUR, AT YOUR HOUSE.
THEY'RE BOTH RESIDENTIAL LOTS.
SO 'CAUSE THAT WAS ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS ON LOT THREE WAS TO GET THE NEIGHBOR TO GIVE ME AN EASEMENT TO DRIVE THROUGH HIS DRIVEWAY AND CUT ACROSS HIS FRONT YARD TO GET ACCESS TO THREE.
THAT IF I'M BUILDING A HOUSE ON TWO, I'M NOT GONNA SAY, HEY, WHY DON'T YOU DRIVE THROUGH MY PROPERTY TO GET TO YOURS? I DON'T THINK IS A, UH, SOLUTION THAT I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU WOULD BE WILLING TO DO, BUT I, I WOULDN'T WANT THAT AT MY HOUSE.
SO THERE ARE EXISTING RESIDENCES THERE? NO, THEY'RE JUST RESIDENTIAL LOTS AND SUBDIVISIONS.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT LOT, THIS IS NOT CURRENTLY ALL ONE LOT CORRECT? IT'S THREE PARCELS? CORRECT.
AND THE TWO AND THREE ARE, WHY IS LOT, LOT ONE NOT RESIDENTIAL.
IT WASN'T A PART OF THE SO IT'S BEEN THAT WAY.
DID YOU BUY IT THAT WAY OR? I DID.
AND SO ON PAGE TWO OF WHAT YOU GAVE US THERE IS THE, THE FIRST ENTRANCE THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR BETWEEN LOTS ONE AND THREE AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER GREEN ONE AT THE FAR END IT LOOKS LIKE OF LOT THREE.
YOU'RE, AND WE WOULD NOT HAVE THAT IF THIS VARIANCE WAS SO YOU WON'T BE BACK FOR ANOTHER VARIANCE.
I WILL NOT BE BACK FOR ANOTHER VARIANCE.
THAT IS WHAT THIS IS GONNA CONSOLIDATE.
INSTEAD OF HAVING TWO ENTRANCES OR ONE RESIDENTIAL AT THE CORNER THERE, THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A HUNDRED FOOT DISTANCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO, YOU WOULD HAVE ONE, YOU'D HAVE A COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE.
AND SAME THING FOR EMS. WE'VE HAD THE SAME TALKS WITH, UH, THE FIRE MARSHAL OF BEING ABLE TO COME IN THAT DEVELOPMENT AND EXIT OUT THE BACK.
AND SO YOU WILL HAVE THOSE TWO POINTS THAT THEY, THEY PREFER TO HAVE.
UM, AS FAR AS MOVING AROUND THE, THE PROJECT.
SO ON THIS PICTURE ON THE VERY TOP, THERE'S ANOTHER ENTRANCE TO THIS LOT.
IS THAT INTENDED FOR PUBLIC USE? THIS WE HAVE NOT, UH, FROM A DEVELOPMENT PERMIT.
WE'VE NOT SUBMITTED FOR A DEVELOPMENT PERMIT WITH UH, KENDALL COUNTY YET.
BUT THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR PRE-DEVELOPMENT MEETINGS HAVE PROPOSED.
YOU SAY FOR PUBLIC USE FOR THE, FOR THE USE OF THIS PROJECT? YES.
UM, SO I DID GO OUT THERE TODAY AND I SAT ON, WELL, I WENT DOWN OAK ACRES, TURNED AROUND, CAME BACK OUT ON RANGER CREEK ROAD AND SAT ABOUT WHERE THIS ENTRANCE IS PROPOSED.
AND WHAT I NOTICED IS THAT THERE WERE CARS PASSING BY ME 'CAUSE I WAS PULLED OVER AND THERE WAS A SMALL, A VERY SMALL SUV AND AS IT WENT PAST THE NEIGHBORING HOME, THERE'S A LITTLE, A TINY HILL AND THEN IT MAKES A, A CURVE TO THE LEFT RANGER CREEK ROAD DOES.
[01:20:01]
SIGHT OF THE TOP OF THAT CAR PRETTY FAST.UM, I KNOW THAT THERE'S STILL MORE DEVELOPMENT HAPPENING DOWN RANGER CREEK ROAD AND UM, SHORELINE PARK AND WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE IS COMING DOWN RANGER CREEK ROAD AS WELL.
SO I'M JUST A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED.
I SHARE YOUR CONCERNS, I GUESS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS THAT I SHARE YOUR CONCERNS THAT A DRIVEWAY ANY FURTHER DOWN PUTS YOU CLOSER TO THAT CURVE IN THAT LITTLE HILL AND THAT SEEMS FAR MORE DANGEROUS.
UM, I EVEN WENT AND SAT IN THE APARTMENT COMPLEX DRIVEWAY HERE AND KIND OF WATCHED, UM, THOSE ARE JUST MY THOUGHTS.
MR. KELLER, THE TWO ENTRANCES OFF OF OAK CREEK LANE DO NOT NEED OUR APPROVAL, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S COUNTY.
I CAN'T IMAGINE FIRE TRUCKS WANTING TO AMBULANCE, WHOEVER WANTING TO TAKE A RIDE ONTO OAK LANE AND THEN LEFT INTO THE DEVELOPMENT IF THEY COULD GO STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE END AND TURN RIGHT INTO THE DEVELOPMENT, IS MY INITIAL THOUGHT.
UM, AND THE APPLICANT, MR. BEAN, YOU'RE OKAY WITH A DESAL LANE FUNDING A DESAL LANE AND NOT BEING A PART OF YOUR PROJECT? YES.
THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR NOW.
I HAVE SOME MORE THAT I'M THINKING ABOUT HERE IN A MINUTE.
JUST SOME CLARIFICATION AGAIN THAT I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING THOSE IMAGES.
I'M SEEING THREE, UH, GREEN DRIVES ON THIS ONE GOING TO THE HOUSE.
THE HOUSE IS NOT PART OF THIS AT ALL, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UH, THE EXISTING, IT LOOKS LIKE A A, A DIRT DRIVE GOING INTO LOT THREE THAT'S GOT EXISTING ACCESS OFF OF RANGER CREEK.
I'M NOT YOU ALL THAT I'VE SEEN.
I MEAN, YOU CAN JUST SEE IT ON GOOGLE EARTH OR SEE WHERE, BUT NOTHING'S EVER BEEN BUILT THERE.
SO, UH, I MEAN, IS THAT, IS THAT A ROAD GOING INTO THAT LOT OR IS THERE A GATE THERE? A FENCE? THERE'S NOT A GATE, THERE'S NOT A FENCE.
A UH, TURN IN THAT PEOPLE HAVE USED.
THAT'S NOT, SAME THING WITH THE ONE, UH, WHERE YOU'RE PROPOSING IT APPEARS TO BE A TURN IN WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOING IN THAT LOT, BUT THEY'RE NOT.
10 PLUS YEARS AGO WHEN THIS WAS PURCHASED, THERE WAS A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE AND THAT WAS A DRIVEWAY AT THAT POINT.
BUT IT DOES HAVE, I MEAN, IT'S DETERIORATED OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
BUT SO THAT HAS BEEN A DRIVEWAY AT YOUR PROPOSED LOCATION IN THE PAST? YES, SIR.
SO IT WOULD BASICALLY BE AN IMPROVED DRIVEWAY OF WHAT'S BEEN THERE.
IT'D BE A COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE.
YOU OWN ALL THREE OF THESE? I DO.
WHY DID YOU ONLY TAKE ONE OUT OF THE ETJ? UH, BECAUSE THE OTHER TWO ARE IN SUBDIVISIONS AND SO THERE'S A WHOLE NAVIGATION OF THAT THAT I HAVE NOT, UH, DIPPED MY TOE IN.
UM, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN SUBDIVISIONS AND THEY'RE RESTRICTED TO RESIDENTIAL USE.
I KNOW THAT TAKING IT OUT OF ETJ TAKE SOME OF THE CONTROLS WE WOULD HAVE OVER THE DEVELOPMENT.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
AND I, I FEAR WE'RE GONNA START SEEING MORE OF THAT WHERE IT'S TAKEN OUT OF THE ETJ UNTIL THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT TO WITH IT AND THEN ASKED TO BE BROUGHT BACK INTO THE CITY.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE VERY CONSCIOUS OF ON THIS COMMISSION.
UM, YEAH, I I MEAN AS FAR AS, UH, I, I DON'T THINK THE TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS IS, IS WORTH ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GONNA BE A PICKLEBALL COURT OR OFFICE BUILDINGS OR A MEDICAL FACILITY.
SO, UM, BUT, BUT THE FACT THAT THERE IS A REQUIREMENT FOR A, UH, RIGHT HAND DESAL LANE, UH, KIND OF TRUMPS A-T-I-A-I THINK.
MS. KNOX, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS, BUT IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CITY RIGHT AWAY SITUATION HERE, AND IT WAS JUST, IT WAS THE COUNTY LOOKING AT THIS, WHAT A, WOULD THIS BE A VARIANCE AND WOULD IT BE CONFORMING TO THE COUNTY REQUIREMENTS AS WELL? SEPARATION, EVENING, ALL AGAIN.
SO I, I DID SOME QUICK REVIEWING THINKING THAT THAT MIGHT BE A QUESTION.
SO YEAH, IF THE ROAD WERE A COUNTY ROAD AND NOT A CITY ROAD, UM, AND IT WAS STILL FOLLOWING COUNTY RULES, SO IT DIDN'T COME TO US AT ALL.
UH, THE COUNTY'S DRIVEWAY SPACING RULES FOLLOW TXDOT RULES.
UM, SO IT'S A 30 MILE AN HOUR POSTED ROAD.
UM, AND SO PER TXDOT WHAT I COULD FIND THAT, THAT WOULD BE A, A 220
[01:25:01]
FOOT SPACING.SO IT WOULD COMPLY WITH TXDOT SPACING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, IT'S 30 MILES AN HOUR AT THIS AREA.
AS YOU GET FURTHER OUT RANGER CREEK, IT DOES SPEED UP WHEN IT STRAIGHTENS OUT.
AND WE'RE, YOU'RE GONNA DEVELOP THIS, BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE WHAT'S GOING IN, RIGHT? WE'VE HAD INTEREST IN DIFFERENT PICKLEBALL, DIFFERENT WAREHOUSE SPACE, BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY TENANTS IN HAND OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT AT THIS MOMENT.
AND YOU LIVE HERE IN BURN? I DO.
IS THIS YOUR FIRST PROJECT OR IT'S NOT? WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU DONE? UH, UPPER CILLO FIVE AND SEVEN, UPPER CILLO CREEK ROAD THAT'S HALF A MILE A MILE UP OF THE ROAD.
ANYBODY ELSE? MY THOUGHT, MY THOUGHT GOES TO IS NOT, IS IS THERE A BETTER SUITED PROJECT FOR THIS PROPERTY THAT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY NEED THE VARIANCE? IS IS, IS IT THE WRONG PROJECT FOR THE LOCATION OR IS IT IT'S A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY THOUGH, SO SOMETHING SHOULD GO THERE.
IT'S NOT ZONE, JUST, YEAH, IT'S ON ZONE.
SO IT COULD BE A RESIDENTIAL LOT TOO.
SO I GUESS THAT THEN, THEN GOES BACK, IS IT, IS THIS THE RIGHT PROJECT FOR THIS LOCATION THEN? WE, WE HAVE NO SAY IN THAT SINCE IT'S OUT OF THE ETJ AND OUT OF THE CITY LIMITS, ALL WE'RE, AND IT SHOULD, WE LET HIM HAVE A DRIVEWAY THERE.
BUT DID YOU ALREADY BUY THIS OR IS IT ON CONTINGENCY? I PURCHASED IT, YEAH.
I THINK, UM, WE'VE HAD A FEW OF THESE WHERE THEY'VE BEEN PULLED OUT OF THE ETJ, BUT THERE'S SOME TYPE OF LINGERING VARIANCE THAT THAT HAS COME UP.
UM, LOOKING AT THE, THE 33,000 SQUARE FEET AND THEN I SEE 90 PARKING SPACES, 90 SOME ODD PARKING SPACES SOMEWHERE.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF, YOU KNOW, YOU START TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT IF IT WAS STILL IN THE ETJ.
UM, AND WE'RE, WE'RE LOSING SOME ADVANTAGE OF PARKING TO IMPERVIOUS COVER, PREVIOUS COVER, UM, AND THEN ALSO BEING ASKED FOR VARIANCE.
UM, I THINK THERE'S A PRECEDENT THAT'S BEEN SET.
UM, BUT THEN AGAIN, WHERE I, UH, COME BACK TO THIS IS IT'S A DRIVEWAY VARIANCE THAT WE'RE BEING ASKED FOR AS WELL.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S ONE FOR ME WHERE I KNOW YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT ME AS RUNNING THE MEETING TRYING TO PROVIDE CLEAR DIRECTION ON ONE, ONE DIRECTION OR ANOTHER.
I'VE, I'VE CONTINUE TO FIND MYSELF IN THE MIDDLE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE, WHAT THE RIGHT DECISION WOULD BE IF, IF I MAKING IT.
I WAS REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO, UM, SOME DEFINITIVE COMMISSION FEEDBACK ON THIS TONIGHT.
UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, IS THERE A MOTION I WOULD HAVE ONE MORE COMMENT BASED ON WHAT ANOTHER COMMISSIONER SAID.
SO THE DRIVEWAY THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY FOR A RESIDENCE THERE, CONSIDERING WE HAVE NO SAY WHAT GOES ON THE PROPERTY OR WHAT HAPPENS ON THE PROPERTY, IF WE DID NOT GRANT THIS VARIANCE, WHAT WOULD BE TO KEEP, WHAT WOULD OUR, UH, HOW WOULD WE KEEP PEOPLE FROM USING THAT DRIVEWAY AS IT IS, AS THAT'S ALREADY EXISTING? I GUESS THERE WAS A HOUSE THERE AT ONE TIME THAT'S BEEN TORN DOWN.
SO THAT WAS A DRIVEWAY TO A HOUSE THAT'S NO LONGER THERE WITHOUT A DESAL LANE.
SO IT IS A DRIVEWAY TO THAT LOT.
I MEAN THAT LOT'S GOTTA HAVE ACCESS.
CAN I CLARIFY ON THAT ONE A LITTLE BIT? SURE.
SO IF IT REMAINS A RESIDENTIAL LOT, THERE'S NO CHANGE IN THE USE OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
AND SO THE COUNTY WOULD LIKELY LEAVE THE DRIVEWAY AS IT IS.
IF THERE'S A CHANGE IN USE, THEY'RE GONNA LOOK TO THE CITY BECAUSE IT IS, UM, IT'S A CITY MAINTAINED ROAD.
AND SO YOU'LL HAVE TO RECALL THAT A RESIDENTIAL DRIVEWAY AND A COMMERCIAL DRIVEWAY ARE NOT THE THING.
SO AN EXPANSION OF THAT DRIVEWAY REQUIRES A RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT.
AND SO IT WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE CITY OF BERNIE.
MR. BEAN, YOU DID UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE STIPULATIONS THAT WERE PUT THE CONDITIONS IN THAT APPROVAL.
'CAUSE THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST I'VE EVER SEEN
ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? UM, ONE LAST CLARIFYING POINT.
[01:30:01]
TO LEMON CREEK.UM, AND I'M FAIRLY CONFIDENT TO SAY THAT ALL OF LEMON CREEK IS IN BEXAR COUNTY.
DEVELOPMENT CITY OF BURN DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT APPLY TO LEMON CREEK.
JUST MORE FROM A SAFETY PERSPECTIVE OF SURE.
YOU KNOW, THE VOLUME OF TRAFFIC THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE TWO DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT VOLUMES AND TWO DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT ROADWAYS.
AND THEIR CONCERN IS, IT, IT OFTEN GETS REFERENCED AS BERNIE AND IT'S NOT, AND IT'S YEAH.
OFTENTIMES BEEN A STICKING POINT.
FOR THIS COMMISSION, DID ANY LETTERS GO OUT TO NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES OR COULD BE INCLUDED IN THIS? DOES THAT DO THAT? THAT THE TJ DO THEY DO THAT AS WELL? NO, I DON'T KNOW.
I, I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE.
UM, DO I NEED TO READ EVERY STIPULATION ON THERE? NO, YOU DON'T.
SO THERE'S A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER KELLER TO APPROVE WHAT THE STIPULATIONS THAT WERE READ, CONDITIONS FOR APPROVAL.
CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION BEFORE WE VOTE? YES.
GOING BACK TO THE PROJECT AT THE COMMONS AT MINGER CREEK THAT WE JUST LOOKED AT, COULD THERE BE A CUL-DE-SAC REQUIREMENT THAT WOULD ACCESS ALL THREE OF THESE PROPERTIES INSTEAD OF THIS IN THAT SAME LOCATION, BUT THE CON THE CONFIGURATION OF IT BE DIFFERENT OR DOES THAT, THAT WAY WE KNOW IT LONG TERM SOLVES THE PROBLEM OF
DOES THAT CHANGE ANYTHING? CAN I MAKE A COMMENT? MM-HMM
THAT LOT TWO HAS ACCESS BY OAK ACRES.
SO WE DON'T NEED A ROAD IMPROVEMENT OR I DON'T NEED A CUL-DE-SAC IN THE MIDDLE.
THAT'S WHY ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS UNKNOWN FOR THAT TOP ONE, BECAUSE IT'S GONNA COME BACK THROUGH OAK ACRES.
I DON'T NEED IT TO, TO GO THROUGH JUST ON LOTS THREE.
I'D HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
LOT TWO OR, BUT THEN WHERE'S THE ACCESS TO LOT ONE FROM RANGER CREEK? SAME WAY.
SO THEY'RE GONNA, SO THE RESIDENT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE PARKING LOT OF THIS BUILDING TO GET TO THEIR HOUSE, BUT I GUESS THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM.
I JUST THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE PREVENTING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR ANOTHER VARIANCE, BECAUSE WHAT IF HE SELLS LOT ONE AND THEN ANOTHER APPLICANT COMES BACK OR HIS PLANS CHANGE AND NOW THEY WANT THIS OTHER VARIANCE FOR ANOTHER DRIVEWAY TO ACCESS THAT PROPERTY.
BUT WOULDN'T THE EASEMENT REQUIREMENT THAT IS IN ONE OF THOSE STIPULATIONS SOLVES THAT SOLVES THAT? YEAH, IT, IT WOULD.
AND PLUS THAT'S POST OUR DECISION.
SO THE BENEFIT OF THE BARGAIN COMES IN AND THEY'RE DEALING WITH ALL THE FACTS.
WHAT IF THEY BUY, IF SOMEBODY BUYS IT.
[5.C. 2026-201 Consider a request for variance to Chapter 7-3.B Required Street Improvements and 7-3.D, Fee in Lieu of Sidewalks, of the Unified Development Code (UDC) for a property located at 417 Hickman (KCAD 18982).]
AGENDA ITEM FIVE C.CONSIDER A REQUEST FOR VARIANCE TO CHAPTER SEVEN DASH THREE B REQUIRED STREET IMPROVEMENTS AND SEVEN DASH 3D FEE IN LIEU OF SIDEWALKS WITH A UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT CODE FOR A PROPERTY LOCATED AT FOUR 17 HICKMAN CAN GO.
SO FOUR 17 HICKMAN IS LOCATED BETWEEN MAINE AND FRY STREET, JUST NORTH OF OAK PARK DRIVE.
IT'S OWNED BY STEVEN AND NANCY DRUCKER.
IT'S ZONED AS MEDIUM DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
IT'S PREVIOUS USE WAS READ RESIDENTIAL.
AND SO IS THE PROPOSED USE SOME CONTEXT TO THE PRE UDC REQUIREMENTS FOR SIDEWALKS.
SO IN 1985, THERE WAS AN UPDATE TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF BERNIE THAT INCLUDED SIDEWALK REQUIREMENTS WITH PLATTING.
IN 1990, THE AMERICAN DISABILITIES ACT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW, WHICH ALLOWS FOR A FULLY ACCESSIBLE, UM, A DA DESIGN FOR SIDEWALKS, RAMPS, AND PEDESTRIAN PATHWAYS MOVING INTO THE CURRENT UDC.
[01:35:01]
BASED ON, UH, MASTER PLANNING EFFORTS AND COORDINATED EFFORTS FOR TRANSPORTATION STUDIES THROUGHOUT THE CITY, UM, SURVEYS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY INDICATED THAT SIDEWALKS WERE OF INTEREST TO THE COMMUNITY.AND SO REQUIRING SIDEWALKS WITH NEW HOME CONSTRUCTION IS THE MECHANISM BY WHICH BERNIE'S RESIDENTIAL GROWTH CONTINUES TO IMPROVE THE CITY'S PEDESTRIAN NETWORK.
WITH THAT, IN 2021, WE ADDED LANGUAGE TO THE UDC TO MAKE STREETS SAFER FOR VEHICLES AND PEDESTRIANS.
AND THAT WAS BY INCLUDING SIDEWALK AND STREET DESIGNS THAT WENT ALONG WITH THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT.
IN 2023, WE ADDED ADDITIONAL LANGUAGE THAT CREATED A FEE IN LIEU OF SIDEWALKS.
THIS WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PAY A FEE INSTEAD OF CONSTRUCTING SIDEWALKS.
IF YOU MET A CERTAIN SET OF PRE PREREQUISITES AS DEFINED IN THE UDC UNDER THIS RULE, A FEE IS PAID IN AND CAN BE USED TO INSTALL, REPLACE, OR REPAIR SIDEWALKS, CURB RAMPS, CROSSWALKS OR PEDESTRIAN FACILITIES IN THE CITY OF BURN OR IN THE E-T-D-E-T-J.
SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY TIED TO THE PROPERTY PAYING THE FEE IT CAN BE USED THROUGHOUT THE CITY CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR STREET IMPROVEMENTS IS THAT THE DEVELOPER AT THEIR OWN, UH, COST AND EXPENSE PROVIDES THE NECESSARY STREET GRADING, CURBS, GUTTERS, SIDEWALKS, OR BIKE LANES, UM, STREET IMPROVEMENTS AND CURB, UH, CURB EITHER DURING SUBDIVISION, SO DURING PLATTING OR DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN ALL STREET IMPROVEMENTS ARE REQUIRED TO MEET THE STREET CROSS SECTION AS DEFINED WITHIN THE UDC.
SO IF IT'S A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK OR A 10 FOOT SIDEWALK OR WHATEVER THE LANE SIZING MIGHT BE FOR THE STREET, UH, STREET REPAIRS, UH, THAT'S ALL NOTED AS PART OF THE UDC FOR SIDEWALK REQUIREMENTS.
UM, UNDER THE SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENTS, THE DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING AND MOBILITY CAN APPROVE THAT PAYMENT OF A FEE INSTEAD OF INSTALLATION OF A SIDEWALK.
AND IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, THE, THE HOUSE AT FOUR 17 HICKMAN, UM, MET THIS REQUIREMENT BY MEETING TWO OF THE STIPULATIONS OF THAT RULE, WHICH IS THAT LESS THAN 50% OF THE BLOCK FACE ON THE PROPERTY, UM, IS LOCATED AS A SIDEWALK AND THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THE VICINITY.
AND IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD REQUIRE INSTALLATION OF SIDEWALKS THAT IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
ADDITIONALLY, THE ENGINEERING DESIGN MANUAL REQUIRES FOR ONE OTHER LAYER OF, UM, DEVELOPMENT AS IT COMES TO, UH, THE STREET CROSS SECTION.
AND THAT'S ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY.
IT'S ESSENTIALLY THAT THE CITY REQUIRES, UH, A DEVELOPMENT TO NOT BEAR MORE THAN THE COST OF THE IMPACTS THEY WOULD HAVE ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO BASED ON THE TIA OR THE PEAK HOUR SHEET THAT'S TURNED IN FOR A DEVELOPMENT, WE EQUATE A COST THAT OCCURS TO OUR SYSTEM AND WE CANNOT EXPECT THE DEVELOPER TO PAY MORE THAN THAT COST ON THE SYSTEM.
SO IT'S TIED TO THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.
UM, FOR THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT BASED ON THE TIA, UH, THEIR DEMAND ON THE THOROUGH THERE FAIR SYSTEM WAS 25,000.
AND THEN, UM, THEY SUPPLIED 22,000, UH, WORTH OF VALUE TO THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE REQUIRED.
AND I'LL EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER.
SO, UH, DEVELOPMENT CONSIDERATIONS, THEY DID DEDICATE RIGHT AWAY ALONG HICKMAN AND ALONG, UH, PHIL WILSON.
AND SO THE VALUE OF THE THE 2000, APPROXIMATELY 2000 SQUARE FEET OF RIGHT OF WAY IS ACCOUNTED FOR IN ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY.
UH, AND THEN IF YOU CONSIDER THE ADDITION OF THE 268 LINEAR FEET OF FIVE FOOT WIDE SIDEWALKS, UM, WHICH BY THEIR COST ESTIMATE IS $8,000, THAT ALSO GOES INTO THE CONSIDERATION FOR ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY.
SO THAT'S THE SUPPLY THAT THEY GIVE BASED ON THE DEMAND THAT THEY'VE PLACED ON THE NETWORK.
AGAIN, THE CRITERIA FOR VARIANCE APPROVAL IS THAT ALL CONDITIONS SHOULD BE MET.
AND THEN WITH THAT, I WILL TAKE QUESTIONS AND LEAVE THESE MOTIONS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
AND I LOOKED AT THIS TODAY AND I DIDN'T SEE ANY SIDEWALKS ON HICKMAN, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
IS, ARE THERE ANY PLANS OR ARE THERE ANY PLANS FOR HICKMAN TO KIND OF, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CALL IT A STRATEGIC SIDEWALK PLAN OR WHAT THE CORRECT TERM IS, BUT IS ANY PART OF HICKMAN, UM, PLANNED FOR ANY TYPE OF SIDEWALK DEVELOPMENT OR IS IT SO THE ENTIRE CITY OF BURN WOULD THEORETICALLY BE PLANNED FOR SIDEWALK DEVELOPMENT.
SO OUR GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE SIDEWALKS EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE CITY.
[01:40:01]
FRIAR.SO I DROVE AROUND TODAY BECAUSE I LIKE TO DO THAT BEFORE THE BEATINGS.
UM, THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS BETWEEN OAK PARK, OBVIOUSLY OAK PARK HAS SIDEWALKS BETWEEN OAK PARK AND THE RIVER.
THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS ANYWHERE.
I EVEN DROVE INTO THE HEART OF BERNIE, WHICH IS IN MY MIND LIKE ITS OWN LITTLE SUBDIVISION, AND THERE'S NOT EVEN SIDEWALKS ON THERE.
UM, I ONLY RECALL MAYBE ONE TIME ON MY TIME IN, ON THE COMMISSION THAT WE'VE HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT FEE IN LIEU OF SIDEWALKS, AND IT'S BEEN QUITE SOME TIME AGO.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S SUPER COMMON THAT WE GET THIS.
UM, AND I WAS, UM, THERE WAS A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR THE HOMEOWNER IN ALL OF THE LETTERS THAT CAME IN THAT NOT ONLY DO THEY NOT WANT HER TO HAVE A, THEM TO HAVE A SIDEWALK, BUT THEY DON'T WANT SIDEWALKS EITHER.
AND I FELT LIKE THAT WAS A SUPER IMPORTANT PIECE OF THE PUZZLE THAT, UM, I KNOW HOAC, THEY WANTED SIDEWALKS.
THERE'S A SCHOOL THERE NOW TOO, WHICH IS, CHANGES THEIR SITUATION, BUT THEY'RE ALSO ON THE PARADE ROUTE.
SO AS PARADES COME DOWN MAIN, THEY BUG OFF ON THAT SIDE OF MAIN STREET.
AND SO I THINK THE POTENTIAL FOR SIDEWALKS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF MAIN FROM HICKMAN IS MORE LIKELY.
UM, SO THAT, THOSE WERE MY FINDINGS.
WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING FOR TO PAY THE FEE IN LIEU OF THE SIDEWALK? THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY THE FEE IN LIEU OF, NOR DO THEY WANT TO CONSTRUCT THE SIDEWALK.
I WOULDN'T WANT CHARGE 'EM EITHER.
I MEAN, BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE USE OF THE SIDEWALK, IT'S, IT'S FOR, IT'S FOR OUR, OUR PEDESTRIANS, IT'S FOR OUR PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE.
AND IF, IF THEY'RE NOT THERE AND WE CAN'T USE THEM AND THEN TYING A FEE IN TO BUILD IT SOMEWHERE ELSE, YET NOBODY HAD THE FORESIGHT TO BUILD IT TO BEGIN WITH.
I THINK WE NEED TO RE WE NEED TO REVISIT THIS PART OF THE UDC AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PERSONALLY, I THINK.
I MEAN, I LOVE THE IDEA OF WHEN IT MAKES SENSE OF BEING ABLE TO PAY THE FEE.
IF YOU'RE DEVELOPING, LIKE WHEN WE BUILT THE MERCEDES-BENZ STORE, THEY MADE US BUILD A SIDEWALK DOWN ON SCENIC LOOP, MADE ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.
IT GOES NOWHERE AND NOBODY ELSE HAS A SIDE SIDEWALK BEFORE OR AFTER IT.
SO THAT WOULD'VE BEEN A REALLY GOOD TIME FOR US TO PAY A FEE AND RE AND KEEP THE CONSISTENCY OF NO SIDEWALKS DOWN THERE BECAUSE WE'RE COMMERCIAL.
WOULD SOMEBODY BUILDING A HOUSE? SO I'LL, I'LL CHIME IN JUST, UH, AS WELL.
SO AS ABIGAIL MENTIONED, LIKE THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF BURNING THAT GOT BUILT BEFORE THE MID EIGHTIES.
UM, AND THAT'S KIND OF THESE POCKETS OF AREAS THAT WE ARE TODAY, UM, THAT DIDN'T HAVE SIDEWALK.
BASICALLY SINCE THE MID EIGHTIES, ALMOST EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S BEEN BUILT HAS HAD SIDEWALK.
THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE NEIGHBORHOODS.
HEART OF BURNIE WAS A SPECIAL PUD THAT HAD ITS OWN LITTLE HOA THAT FAILED AND THE CITY STREETS TOOK A ENDED UP TAKING ALL THAT OVER.
UM, SO THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF POCKETS OF AREAS WHERE SIDEWALKS, WHETHER P AND Z AT THE TIME APPROVED THE ACTION, UM, OF NO SIDEWALKS.
BUT IN GENERAL, SINCE THE MID EIGHTIES, EVERY NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE BUILD TODAY HAS SIDEWALKS.
AND SO THIS WAS A COMMON PICTURE HERE ON LOCK.
THERE'S MANY PLACES IN TOWN THAT WE WERE KIND OF BUILDING THESE SIDEWALKS TO NOWHERE.
UM, AND SO THAT'S, THIS IS WHY WE KIND OF CAME IN AND CREATED THAT ORDINANCE, THIS FEE IN LIEU OF, INSTEAD OF BUILDING LITTLE SIDEWALKS TO NOWHERE, LET'S TAKE THESE LITTLE BUCKETS OF MONEY AND MAKE A BIG BUCKET OF MONEY THAT I CAN GO BUILD CITY SIDEWALK PROJECTS IN AREAS DOWNTOWN OR LIKE OAK PARK OR SOME OF THE MAIN CORRIDORS, UM, TO HELP TRY TO PAY SOME OF THESE BIG AREAS.
AND SO THERE WAS A PRESENTATION THAT I MADE TO COUNCIL A COUPLE WEEKS BACK JUST ON HOW WE PICK SIDEWALK PROJECTS.
UM, AND THAT WAS ONE THAT WE ACTUALLY HAD BACK IN 2016.
THE NPO CAME IN AND DID A BIG FANCY STUDY AND KIND OF BUNCH OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT AND KIND OF REALLY ESTABLISHED WHERE SIDEWALKS THAT WE SHOULD BE PUTTING IN.
THIS SLIDE HERE IS JUST A, A PICTURE OF THE PRESENTATION THAT I GAVE TO COUNCIL A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
BUT YOU CAN SEE KIND OF LIKE ON THE WEST, THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PICTURE, FREDERICK CREEK AND OTHER, EVERYONE THERE HAS GOT SIDEWALKS.
UM, OVER ON THE NORTHEAST SIDE, CHAPARRAL CREEK, EVERYTHING OVER THERE.
NEWER AREA, IT'S OUT GOT SIDEWALKS WHERE WE'VE GOT THIS KIND OF POCKET OF DOWNTOWN AND THE OLDER AREAS OF TOWN WHERE WE DON'T HAVE SIDEWALKS.
AND JUST OVER THE LAST HANDFUL OF YEARS, KIND OF THE, I'M GONNA, THERE'S A DARK PURPLE COLOR AND THERE'S LIKE THE MAGENTA, SO MAGENTA'S THE EXISTING COLORS.
BUT IN THE LAST HANDFUL OF YEARS, THE DARK PURPLE ARE SIDEWALKS THAT WE'VE BUILT THROUGH CITY PROJECTS.
[01:45:01]
FUND, SOME OF IT'S MONEY THAT GOES THROUGH SOME, NORMALLY IF PEOPLE, SINCE WE CREATED THIS FUND, IT'S JUST FEES ARE GOING INTO, WE'RE HERE TODAY BECAUSE THEY'RE ASKING NOT TO PAY.IF THEY'RE JUST ASKING TO PAY AND IT MEETS THEIR REQUIREMENTS, IT NEVER COMES TO YOU, RIGHT? SO THAT'S WHY YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE SEEN IT.
SO OLD SAN ANTONIO'S, DARK PURPLE ROSEWOOD, A LITTLE SECTION PLANT.
YOU'VE SEEN OAK PARK AND FRY OR THE DARK PURPLE COLORS.
UM, THE AREAS IN RED, UM, WHICH IS HOAC LITTLE SECTIONS GAPS IN TYSON.
IF YOU'VE DRIVEN THROUGH THE FLATS.
IT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE IN THE FLATS WHERE 20 YEARS AGO THERE WAS HARDLY ANY SIDEWALK IN THE FLATS.
BUT WITH THE REDEVELOPMENT THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE FLATS, THERE'S LOTS OF AREAS.
THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE PICTURES, UH, THAT WAS HERE EARLIER.
UM, SO HERE YOU CAN SEE AT THE BACK END OF THIS PICTURE, ALL OF THAT REDEVELOPMENT HAS BUILT SIDEWALK, BUT AS YOU GET CLOSER, THEN THE OLDER ORIGINAL HOUSES, THERE'S NO SIDEWALK JUST AS DEVELOPMENT AND REDEVELOPMENT OCCURS, SIDEWALK GETS BUILT WITH THOSE PROJECTS.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE WERE SEEING THESE KIND OF SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE GAPS HERE ON LOT STREET.
AND SO WE CREATED THE FUND THAT FUND DOLLARS COULD GET PUT INTO, AND I COULD GO AS A CITY PROJECT, GO BUILD BIGGER CITY SIDEWALK PROJECTS.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO MENTION, UM, THAT YOU GUYS ARE AWARE OF THE OAK PARK PROJECT.
OAK PARK FRY, WE BUILT THAT SIDEWALK A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
UM, NEXT YEAR IN FISCAL YEAR 27, WE ACTUALLY WERE ABLE TO DO A GRANT.
SO THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS I'VE BEEN DESIGNING SIDEWALKS AND I GOT A GRANT TO GO BUILD $2.7 MILLION, $2.6 MILLION OF SIDEWALKS.
UM, SO ON HOSSACK, GAPS ON TYSON, UM, AS WELL AS EPPY.
UH, WE'RE GONNA BE BUILDING SIDEWALKS NEXT YEAR.
UM, AND THE AREAS IN ORANGE, UM, ON HIGHLAND STREET AS WELL AS PORTIONS OF HICKMAN AND FRY.
UH, WE HAVE THAT AS AREAS THAT PER OUR MPO STUDY, THERE'S ARE AREAS THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE BUILDING SIDEWALK OVER THE NEXT HANDFUL OF YEARS.
AGAIN, AS ABIGAIL MENTIONED, OUR GOAL LONG TERM IS EVERY STREET, EVERY IN TOWN WILL HAVE SIDEWALK.
THAT'S, WE ALL KNOW THAT'S GONNA TAKE US DECADES, UM, TO DO THAT.
UM, UNLESS I KEEP GETTING MORE AND MORE GRANTS TO BUILD IT.
UM, BUT WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GET EVERYONE, EVERYONE THAT COMES IN AND PUTS A NEW HOUSE, THEY'RE BASICALLY PUTTING THEIR FAIR SHARE INTO THE SIDEWALK SYSTEM.
UM, 'CAUSE EVENTUALLY WE DO HAVE CITIZEN SURVEYS OVERALL OVER THE CITY.
SIDEWALKS ARE SOMETHING THAT ARE VERY POPULAR.
I UNDERSTAND THE PREMISE AND I CAN APPRECIATE THAT.
BUT I, AND I SAY THIS, EVERY TIME A PROJECT LIKE THIS COMES UP, I THINK AS A CITY THERE HAS TO BE SOME COMMON SENSE.
THIS FAMILY BUILT A BEAUTIFUL HOME ON THIS CORNER.
AND THE FENCE IS GORGEOUS IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN BY THERE.
THEY'RE A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE.
AND, BUT WE'RE PUTTING ALL THIS PRESSURE ON OUR HOMEOWNER.
ACTUALLY, BETTER QUESTION, IS THERE A, WHEN THESE LOTS WERE PLATTED, UM, ASSUMING THEY WERE, OR IS THERE A DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT HAS SIDEWALKS TO FIND? ARE THESE THESE LOTS WERE PLATTED LAST YEAR? YEAH, 2022.
2022 THROUGH, YEAH, A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
SO, OR I DON'T KNOW WHEN, WHENEVER THERE WAS A BUILDING PERMIT OR A BUILDING PLAN, I MEAN, OR ANY TYPE OF CITY APPROVAL WERE SIDEWALKS MENTIONED OR DESIGNED INTO ANY OF THAT? YES.
FOR THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, YEAH, THERE'S EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE ABOUT SIDEWALKS BEING REQUIRED FOR QUITE A WHILE, UM, WITH OUR FORMER CITY ENGINEER, CHERYL, UM, THAT SIDEWALKS WERE REQUIRED.
HOW DID, HOW DID WE FUND SIDEWALKS BEFORE THIS FUNDING MECHANISM WAS PUT IN PLACE? SO IN GENERAL, SIDEWALKS AND OCCASIONALLY THE CITY WILL GO BUILD SIDEWALK PROJECTS, BUT IN GENERAL, THEY'RE BUILT BY THE HOME BUILDER.
AND HOW DID Y'ALL FUND THAT? HOW DID THE CITY FUND THAT? TAXES JUST COMES OUTTA GENERAL FUNDS COUNCIL CHOOSES TO PICK A SECTION, BUT IN GENERAL, IF YOU LOOK, THE SIDEWALKS AND BRANCHES OF CREEKSIDE ARE BUILT BY THE HOME BUILDERS.
THEY'RE NOT PUT IN WITH THE INITIAL DEVELOPER, THEY'RE BUILT BY THE HOME BUILDER.
SO THE SIDE OR REGION PARK OR ANY OF OUR NEWER NEIGHBORHOODS, THOSE SIDEWALKS ARE BUILT BY THE HOME BUILDERS.
BUT I THINK IT'S REASONABLE THAT YOU'RE GONNA SELL OUT THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS.
AND WHEN YOU'RE GOING IN AND, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE AREAS THAT ARE BEING GENTRIFIED OR, OR RE REDEVELOPED OR, OR UPGRADED THE 'CAUSE I'M CERTAINLY NOT ANTI SIDEWALK.
IF ANYTHING, I, I APPRECIATE THE SIDEWALKS, BUT WHAT I DON'T APPRECIATE IS A SIDEWALK THAT GOES NOWHERE AND, AND THAT IT, IT JUST, WHEN YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA THINK, WHAT'S THE END GAME HERE? WELL, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US ARE GONNA LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THE END GAME WITH THIS METHOD TO WHERE WE'RE GONNA HAVE A FUNCTIONAL SIDEWALK FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER.
AND THEN TO PUT THAT BURDEN AND TO CREATE THIS FUNDING MECHANISM THAT
[01:50:01]
I DON'T THINK SERVES THE COMMUNITY.I, I JUST, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S REASONABLE.
I, I LIKE THE IDEA THAT IF I'M A DEVELOPER AND I COME IN AND I DEVELOP AND I'M GOING TO, AND THERE'S A PROFIT OPPORTUNITY FOR ME, AND I'M GONNA COME IN AND I'M GONNA GET OUT THAT I SHOULD PUT SIDEWALKS IN IF, OR, OR IF YOU PUT IN A, A, A NEW NEIGHBORHOOD.
BUT FOR THE HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN HERE FOR 50, 60 YEARS OR A NEW HOUSE THAT COMES IN AND IMPROVES THE AREA, LIKE THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR, UM, I, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S REASON YOU'RE GONNA CREATE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T SERVE ANYBODY TODAY OR EVEN IN THE NEXT, BECAUSE I, IF I WAS A BETTING MAN, I'D SAY THAT THE SIDEWALK'S NOT GONNA BE COMPLETED DOWN THE WHOLE STREET IN OUR LIFETIME.
SO THERE'S DEFINITELY SOME AREAS OF TOWN THAT ARE SEEING A LOT MORE REDEVELOPMENT THAN OTHERS.
UH, AGAIN, I MENTIONED THE FLATS.
THERE'S A BIG PORTION OF THE FLATS THAT'S WALKABLE ON SIDEWALKS TODAY.
THAT WASN'T THAT CASE 20 YEARS AGO.
AND IT'S BY THE REDEVELOPMENT.
THE CITY HASN'T GONE AND PUT SIDEWALKS IN.
IT'S THE REDEVELOPMENT AND ALL THE OTHER LANDOWNERS THAT HAVE, WHEN THEY'VE TORN DOWN THE OLD HOUSES AND BUILT NEW HOUSES, THEY'VE HAD TO PUT SIDEWALK IN.
UM, SO THERE'S MANY, MANY CASES OF OF PAST RESIDENTS THAT HAVE HAD TO DO THIS.
AND THAT FEE, UH, FOR THE, OR THE, I'M SORRY, THE ORDINANCE FOR THE FEE IN LIEU OF, WHEN WAS THAT IMPLEMENTED? IT WAS IN 23, 23, 23.
AND, AND THIS IS WHERE WE HAVE REALLY BEEN PUTTING THE MONEY FROM THAT WE'VE REALLY BEEN PUTTING A LOT OF EFFORT INTO THE DOWNTOWN COURSE.
SO THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS WE'VE BEEN PUTTING A LOT OF CURB RAMPS AND SIDEWALK GAPS AND OTHER STUFF.
SO USING THAT FUNDS TO GO FIX AREAS THAT HAVE A HIGHER, UH, AMOUNT OF PEDESTRIANS AS OPPOSED TO THESE KIND OF SIDEWALKS TO NOWHERE.
BUT AGAIN, OVER TIME, OUR GOAL IS TO HAVE SIDEWALKS EVERYWHERE.
SO IF, SO ANYONE WHO EITHER PURCHASES A PROPERTY OR DEVELOPS A PROPERTY AFTER 2023, AFTER THE ORDINANCE WAS PUT IN PLACE THROUGH THEIR DUE DILIGENCE, THEY WOULD KNOW THAT THIS, THIS FEE IN LIEU OF IS EXISTS.
SO AGAIN, SIDEWALKS HAVE BEEN REQUIRED FOR SINCE 86.
WE ALLOWED THEM TO PAY INTO A FUND.
UM, THE, THE CITY WILL GO BUILD SIDEWALKS ELSEWHERE INSTEAD OF THEM BUILDING THE SIDEWALK DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE.
AND THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, UM, THE ONLY, THE ONLY THING WE'RE DISCUSSING TONIGHT IS THE FEE.
I TELL YOU WHAT, AND I REMEMBER WHEN WE DID THAT, WHEN WE, WHEN WE, YOU HAD THE OPTION OR CREATED THE OPTION, AND AT THE TIME IT REALLY MADE SENSE INSTEAD OF HAVING TO BE FORCED TO, TO DO A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE WHERE YOU COULD PAY INTO A FUND.
I ALSO RECALL WHEN WE DID THAT, WE WERE TALKING MORE ABOUT DEVELOPERS, NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL GOING ON IN AND DOING THEIR HOME.
SO, WELL, I PROMISE MS. DRUCKER, IF THAT'S HOW YOU PRONOUNCE IT, HER TIME TO SPEAK PUBLICLY.
AND I DIDN'T REALIZE SHE WAS THE APPLICANT AT THE TIME, BUT MS. DRUCKER, WOULD YOU MIND COMING FORWARD AND STATING YOUR NAME AND TELL ME IF I PRONOUNCED YOUR NAME? I'M NANCY SAUNDERS DRUCKER.
UM, I CURRENTLY LIVE IN THE FLATS WITH LOTS OF SIDEWALKS TO NOWHERE.
UM, AND NO ONE USES THEM BECAUSE YOU WALK ON 'EM FOR LIKE 50 FEET AND THEN YOU HAVE TO LIKE STEP DOWN OFF CURB ONTO THE STREET AGAIN.
AND SO ANYWAY, UM, I AM NOT A DEVELOPER.
WE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY IN 2012, UM, WITH THOUGHTS OF, UM, YOU KNOW, AS WE GOT OLDER, WE WANTED TO MOVE INTO TOWN FROM CORDIER RANCH.
AND SO WE STARTED ALL OF THIS PROCESS IN 2019.
AND I HAVE MANY EMAILS, SOME OF WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR PACKETS FROM, UM, REBECCA AND LAURA.
I HAD LOTS OF MEETINGS WITH THEM, LOTS OF CORRESPONDENCE, AND THERE WAS NOTHING AT THAT TIME ABOUT PAYING FOR A SIDEWALK THAT WE WEREN'T GOING TO INSTALL.
UM, MOST OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE WERE HAVING WAS THAT WHEN THE U NEW UGC CAME OUT, WHICH WE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE IN MARCH, FEBRUARY OR MARCH OF 2020, THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A SIMPLE BOUNDARY PLAT ON OUR LOT, SO THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO EVEN BE A DEVELOPER, WE COULD JUST HAVE OUR LOT AND THEN WE COULD BUILD A HOUSE.
AND THEN DURING COVID, THAT ALL GOT PUSHED DOWN.
AND WHEN THE NEW UDC CAME OUT, UM, WE WERE STUCK AGAIN.
SO WE HAVE JUST BEEN LIKE CHASING THE BALL.
SO WE ALREADY HAD OUR PLAN IN 2023.
WE HAD NO SIDEWALKS IN THE PLAN.
UM, WE WERE TOLD DURING OUR PLANNING MEETING THAT WE COULD KEEP THE EXISTING DRIVEWAYS.
WE COULDN'T USE THEM ALL AS DRIVEWAYS, BUT WE COULD HAVE THEM.
AND THEN IF WE DIDN'T WANT TO PUT IN A SIDEWALK, WE COULD JUST PLAY, PAY A FEE, WHICH WE'VE ALREADY PAID A $500 FEE JUST FOR ME TO BE HERE AND TO APPLY FOR THIS.
UM, AND SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING
[01:55:01]
THE FEE WAS GONNA BE, IS THAT I COULD SEEK A VARIANCE BY PAYING THE $500 AND HAVING REASON FOR NOT WANTING TO PUT IN A SIDEWALK.SO WE LITERALLY BUILT A HOUSE, UM, OUR BUILDING PR OUR PLATING.
WE'VE HAD THAT SINCE, I THINK, I THINK WE WENT, WE HAD OUR PLATTING MEETING IN MAYBE DECEMBER OF 21.
NO, IT WASN'T, NO, IT WAS DECEMBER OF 22.
SO IT WAS BEFORE THIS PAYMENT IN LIEU OF EVEN CAME OUT.
AND THEN WE, OUR PLAT WAS IMPROVED APPROVED, AND THEN WE HAD, UM, OUR BUILDING PLANS, WHICH WERE DEVELOPED BY, UM, BEN, ADAM AND CHRIS ZE.
AND SO WE'VE BEEN BUILDING THIS HOUSE.
WE'RE COMPLETELY FINISHED WITH THE HOUSE.
UM, WE'RE HOPING TO GET OUR COO ON WEDNESDAY.
UM, WE'RE, BUT WE'RE DOING NO WORK IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE USING AN OLD EXISTING DRIVEWAY THAT WAS ALREADY THERE.
UM, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT SIDEWALKS.
AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT I KNOW MOST OF THE NEIGHBORS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND I GOT LETTERS FROM A LOT OF THEM, AND I DIDN'T EVEN INCLUDE THREE OR FOUR OF 'EM IN THE PACKET THAT WE PRESENTED OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ADAMANTLY OPPOSED TO SIDEWALKS.
AND I ALSO KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO OWN LOTS IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD OR THEY OWN EXISTING HOUSES AND THEY DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING.
THEY'RE LETTING THOSE HOUSES SIT THERE, THEY'RE RUNNING THEM OUT, WHICH WE DID FOR YEARS.
UM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA DEAL WITH ALL THE PLANNING AND ZONING.
AND YOU'VE GOTTA PUT IN, YOU'VE GOTTA PUT IN NEW INFRASTRUCTURE, YOU'VE GOTTA PUT IN A SIDEWALK.
AND SO AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN, I'M BEING ASKED TO FUND A PROJECT THAT NO ONE ELSE IN THE CITY IS BEING ASKED TO FUND.
LIKE IF, IF I'M A DEVELOPER LIKE AT ESPERANZA OR SPENCER RANCH, I REALLY GET LIKE GOING, OKAY, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO FOR THIS WHOLE COMMUNITY, BUT THIS IS AN OLDER AREA OF BURNING.
UM, THIS IS, I MEAN, YOU CAN DRIVE DOWN IT AND NOT, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND HE'S SAYING THAT WE'RE, THEY'RE GONNA PUT A, A SIDEWALK ON PART OF HIGMAN, BUT RIGHT NOW THERE'S NO SIDEWALK AT THE VETERANS PARK.
THERE'S NO SIDEWALK AT THE PARK ON THE CORNER OF RADER AND HIGMAN.
THERE'S NOT ONE SIDEWALK IN OUR ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD.
NOT ON THE SIDE STREETS, NOT ON HIGMAN, ON NONE OF THE STREETS.
AND SO WE'RE BEING ASKED TO MAKE A SIDEWALK TO KNOW OR TO PAY FOR A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE.
AND IT'S A HUGE FINANCIAL, YOU KNOW, ASK FOR US TO BE ABLE TO PAY TO, YOU KNOW, TO PAY FOR NOTHING BASICALLY, THAT'S GONNA GO PAY FOR, YOU KNOW, COMPLETING LITTLE PIECES OF SIDEWALKS SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND SO, UM, YEAH, WE DON'T WANNA, WE DON'T WANNA PUT IN A SIDEWALK.
IT WOULD LOOK CRAZY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I REALLY DOUBT THAT THE CITY OF BERNIE IS GONNA FOCUS ON PUTTING A SIDEWALK ON HICKMAN OR PHIL WILSON.
IF YOU DRIVE THROUGH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE OUT PEOPLE'S CARPORTS, PEOPLE'S GARAGES, PEOPLE'S FENCES, PEOPLE'S MAILBOXES.
THERE'S LANDSCAPING, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF STUFF GOING ON ALL THE WAY UP TO THE STREET.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, SOME OF THE LETTERS THAT YOU RECEIVED ARE LIKE, ONE OF THE THINGS WE LIKE IS JUST, EVERYBODY'S LIKE OUT IN THE STREETS.
IT'S SUCH A WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T WANT THOSE SIDEWALKS.
SO ANYWAY, I APPRECIATE Y'ALL'S TIME.
UM, CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW HOME.
WELL, UM, UH, YEAH, I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.
I, I LIVE ON SCHOOL STREET AND I HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING HOW WE DON'T HAVE SIDEWALKS.
AND SO I THINK THEY, UM, ARE NEEDED IN MANY AREAS AND IN SOME AREAS THEY ARE NOT.
UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION? ONE COMMENT THAT, UH, MS. DRUCKER HIT ON THAT I WAS GONNA MENTION IS THAT THERE'S SIDEWALKS THROUGH VETERANS PARK, NOT AROUND IT, I DON'T BELIEVE.
AND THEN THE, IF YOU GO JUST WEST FROM THEIR HOUSE, UH, YOU MENTIONED THE ROAD NAMES, BUT THERE'S A LITTLE PARK THAT I BELIEVE IS CITY OWNED THAT DOESN'T HAVE SIDEWALKS.
SO TO ASK THEM IS QUITE LITERALLY INSANE, IN MY OPINION.
I'VE GOT A QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU.
HOW, HOW MUCH IS THE FEE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT $8,000.
$8,000 AND OTHERS HAVE PAID THE FEE? YES, THERE HAVE BEEN OTHERS THAT HAVE PAID THE FEE.
SO I GUESS I, I MEAN, I GUESS A PRECEDENCE WOULD BE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PAY THE FEE, YOU HAVE TO COME HERE TO PETITION.
WELL, THAT'S WHERE I WAS TRYING TO GET TO A MOMENT AGO IS IF THERE ARE ANY DEVELOPMENT PLANS OR, UH, PLAT THAT SHOW THAT THERE WAS A SIDEWALK INCLUDED THAT WAS SUBMITTED WITH THE PROJECT.
[02:00:01]
CLEAR ANSWER OF THAT.HOW I, I, I GET, I SUBMITTED COPIES OF REQUEST AND WE HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT.
EVERYTHING, I GUESS MR. CARROLL, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT, IS THERE A MISUNDERSTANDING OF, IS THIS A MATTER OF THE, THE REQUIREMENT BEING PUT IN PLACE AND THE, THE DEVELOPMENT COMING FORWARD AND IS THERE A MISUNDERSTANDING? AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY THE VARIANCE IS BEING REQUESTED.
SO YES, THERE COULD VERY WELL BE A MISUNDERSTANDING, BUT AGAIN, SIDEWALKS HAVE BEEN REQUIRED SINCE THE LATE EIGHTIES.
UM, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THEN LATER WE CREATED A FEE IN LIEU OF, AND FOR THIS PARTICULAR CITIZEN IS ASKING TO NOT PAY THE FEE IN LIEU OF, SO NOT TO DO ANY SIDEWALK AT ALL.
UM, SO THE QUESTION IS, WE HAD A PRE-AP MEETING, WE HAVE DOCUMENTS OF A PRE-AP MEETING WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT SIDEWALKS ARE REQUIRED AND THERE'S A FEE IN LIEU OF OPTION FOR DOING THE SIDEWALKS.
I CAN, I DON'T HAVE IT WITH ME, BUT WE HAVE MEETING MINUTES.
WE DISCUSSED THIS WAS A REQUIREMENT AND, AND THE ORDINANCE DOES NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN A PROPERTY OWNER SELF-DEVELOP VERSUS A DEVELOPER, RIGHT? IT JUST SAYS FEE IN LIEU OF, TO ANYONE WHO DEVELOPS A, AGAIN, THE ESPERANZA BUILDERS NOT BUILDING THE SIDEWALKS.
THE INDIVIDUAL HOME BUILDERS IN ESPERANZA ARE BUILDING THE SIDEWALKS.
IF YOU GO LOOK, THAT SIDEWALK'S GETTING BUILT HOUSE BY HOUSE, BY HOUSE, BY HOUSE BY HOUSE.
IT'S BUILT INTO THE COST OF THE HOUSES.
THE HOME BUILDER, THE HOME BUILDER.
SO IT'S NO DIFFERENT IF A HOME BUILDER'S BUILDING A HOUSE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE HOME BUILDERS BUILDING A HOUSE AT THIS LOCATION, THE SIDEWALK IS BUILT INTO THE COST OF THE HOUSE.
BUT THAT IS A FAR CRY OF APPLES AND ORANGES IN MY OPINION.
THIS IS A DOWNTOWN AREA THAT THERE IS NOT ANOTHER SINGLE SIDEWALK ANYWHERE.
SOMEONE WAS FIRST IN THE FLATS.
A FUNDING MECHANISM FOR, FOR CITY SIDEWALKS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROPERTY.
SO I'LL COMMENT, SOMEONE WAS FIRST IN THE FLATS.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHO I CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AS BEFORE MY TIME.
UM, BUT YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.
I MEAN, THE GOAL IS TO GET SIDEWALK EVERYWHERE.
AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHY WE CREATED THE FEE IN LIEU OF IS SO THAT WE COULD GO, WE DIDN'T WANT.
AND WE, WE RECEIVED A LOT OF COMPLAINTS.
LIKE THIS IS WHAT WE, WE ALL, I THINK ALL OF US AGREE WE DON'T WANT SIDEWALKS TO NOWHERE, THAT WE WANT TO BUILD SIDEWALKS THAT CONNECT.
UM, SO IT WAS, INSTEAD OF BUILDING THE SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE, WE COULD USE THE FEE THAT WE COULD GO ACTUALLY BUILD, BUILD GAPS.
WE COULD FIX PROBLEMS AND DO OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT, UM, AS WELL.
SO INSTEAD OF SLOWLY WORKING A LITTLE BY AREA, WE COULD GO DO THE CRITICAL AREAS FIRST, UM, WHERE THEY WERE TRULY NEEDED.
I THINK THE DISADVANTAGE THAT THIS FAMILY'S AT IS IT IS A LARGER THAN AVERAGE LOT AND IT'S A CORNER.
SO IS THERE A COMPROMISE? UH, I DO WANNA MAKE A COMMENT, IF I MAY REAL QUICK.
WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT WHEN WE PASSED THE UDC, SOME CONFUSION BETWEEN THE TERM DEVELOPER AND WHO WAS A DEVELOPER.
BECAUSE WHEN THE UDC WAS INITIALLY PASSED, WE RAN INTO A LOT OF ISSUES, UH, RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE WITH PEOPLE WANTING TO BUILD A EIGHT BY 10 BACK PORCH, OR PEOPLE WANTING TO ADD A STORY WHERE PEOPLE WANTING TO, AND, AND EVERYTHING IN THE UDC CALLED THEM A DEVELOPER.
AND I KNOW THERE WAS A LOT OF, UH, TRAUMA CAUSED TO PEOPLE IN BERNIE THAT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THEY WERE DEVELOPERS.
THEY FELT LIKE, THIS IS MY LAND AND I WANNA PUT A PORCH OUT HERE.
AND NOW YOU'RE SAYING I'M A DEVELOPER AND I'VE GOTTA DO ALL THIS STUFF TO PUT A PORCH.
AND SO I THOUGHT WE HAD CLEANED A LOT OF THAT UP.
AND, AND I FEEL LIKE THIS FALLS A LITTLE BIT INTO THAT CATEGORY BECAUSE THE ENTIRE PRESENTATION CITY STAFF WAS SAYING, WE'RE REQUIRING THE DEVELOPER TO DO THIS.
WE'RE REQUIRING THE DEVELOPER TO DO THAT.
AND I THINK WE'RE BACK INTO THAT AREA THAT NEEDS CLARIFICATION OF WHAT IS A DEVELOPER VERSUS A CITIZEN TRYING TO IMPROVE THEIR, THEIR, THEIR PROPERTY IN BURNING.
I'LL COMMENT TRICKY PASSE ON THIS ONE.
YEAH, I WAS GONNA COMMENT AGAIN.
UM, THERE'S MANY PLACES WHERE PEOPLE ARE DOING ADDITIONS OR OTHER TYPE THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT WE ARE NOT, OH, YOU GOTTA GO BUILD A SIDEWALK.
YOU'RE DOING A LITTLE ADDITION ON YOUR HOUSE, YOU GOTTA GO BUILD A SIDEWALK.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT A CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING WHEN PEOPLE ARE COMPLETELY TEARING DOWN STRUCTURES AND BUILDING COMPLETELY NEW HOUSES.
WE'RE TELLING 'EM THAT THEY NEED TO BUILD SIDEWALK.
I THINK WE BUILT A MECHANISM INTO THIS WHERE A HOMEOWNER COULD COME IN, REQUEST THIS VARIANCE AND UH, NOT TO PAY THE FEE.
AND I THINK THERE'S A REASON FOR THAT BEING BUILT INTO THIS.
[02:05:01]
PROJECT, I MEAN, I, I'VE DRIVEN, I DROVE BY IT.IT'S GOTTA BE NORTH OF A MILLION DOLLARS I WOULD IMAGINE.
SO THIS $8,000 REPRESENTS WHAT? PLUS LESS THAN 1%.
LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY IT'S COST THEM THOUGH, BY ALL OF THE DELAYS AND THE TIME IT'S TAKEN THEM.
IT'S BEEN YEARS THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO BUILD THIS HOUSE.
THAT ALONE IS A FINANCIAL BURDEN.
BUT OUR, OUR DECISION TONIGHT COULD NULLIFY THE FEE IN LIEU OF, RIGHT.
BECAUSE DEPENDING ON HOW WE DECIDE THIS, ANYBODY CAN COME HERE AND SAY, HEY, THEY GOT A, THEY GOT A WAIVER.
I WANT A VARIANCE VARIANCE FOR EVERYONE.
WELL, AND THAT, THAT COMES IN, I, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT, BUT, UH, YOU JUST GOTTA ASK YOUR, I MEAN, I, I DON'T LOOK AT THIS AS, SHOULD THERE BE SIDEWALKS THERE OR NOT BE SIDEWALKS THERE.
I'M LOOKING AT THIS, THAT THIS IS A FUNDING MECHANISM FOR THE CITY TO CREATE A FUND TO FUND SIDEWALKS.
HOW, HOW MUCH MONEY IS IN THAT ACCOUNT RIGHT NOW? DO YOU KNOW? I, I'M SORRY.
I DON'T HAVE THAT WITH ME RIGHT NOW.
I, I TRUTHFULLY DON'T KNOW 'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN SPENDING OUT OF IT.
DO WE
ONE MORE QUESTION,
I, I DON'T, I DON'T LIKE IT AT ALL.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T, I JUST DON'T LIKE THIS UDC PORTION OF THE, OF THE, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IN THE CITY.
BUT IS THERE, IS THERE ANY COMPROMISE? BECAUSE I DON'T WANNA SET A PRECEDENCE THAT NOW EVERYONE'S GONNA COME.
IF I DON'T WANT A SIDEWALK, BUT I LIVE ON HIGHLAND RIGHT NEXT TO KINDER PARK, IT MAKES SENSE FOR A SIDEWALK TO BE THERE.
SOME PLACES IT DOESN'T, OTHERS, BUT THAT'S STILL A LITTLE BIT SUBJECTIVE.
SO HOW DO WE GET AROUND THIS WITH VARIANCES? UM, IS THERE AN OPTION FOR A COMPROMISE OF A LESSER FEE IN THIS SITUATION THAT WE'RE ACCOMMODATING BOTH, OR IS IT ALL OR NOTHING? WELL, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION.
WOULD IT BE SO BAD IF WE ADDRESS THIS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS AND, WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT A VARIANCE SAYS.
AND, AND NO, WELL, I'M SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE SAYING THAT PEOPLE ARE GONNA COME.
I MEAN, WE'RE HERE AND IF IT, AND I WOULD SAY THAT, LET'S JUST SAY THAT WE, WE APPROVE IT AND ANOTHER CASE COMES IN AND IT'S, IT'S VERY SIMILAR OLD NEIGHBORHOOD, NO SIDEWALKS FOR BLOCKS.
THEN I WOULD SAY THAT WE PROBABLY APPROVE THAT ONE TOO.
AND IF ONE COMES IN AND THERE'S SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF 'EM AND THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IT, THEN I WOULD SAY, NO, YOU'RE NOT APPROVED.
SO I WOULD, WE ARE THEN THE COMMON SENSE BODY OF, I MEAN, WE, THAT'S HER JOB.
OKAY, THEN I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
SO I MAKE A, SO GOING BACK TO MR. CARROLL'S POINT THOUGH, THE FIRST ONE THAT PUTS IN A SIDEWALK PRETTY MUCH NULLIFIES IT FOR THE ENTIRE, HOW FAR ARE WE, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE BLOCK? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A ONE MILE RADIUS? WHAT COULDN'T TELL YOU? I MEAN, WE, I THINK WE HAVE TO BETTER DEFINE WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE TONIGHT.
IT JUST FEELS TO ME LIKE, WELL, WHERE I CONTINUE TO GO IS THERE'S, THERE'S NOT BEEN ANY DOCUMENTATION SHOWN TO ME THAT, HEY, THIS IS WHERE IT WAS CLEAR THAT A SIDEWALK NEEDED TO BE IN PLACE, DEVELOPMENT, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, STARTED IN 2019 BEFORE THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT TO PUT THE SIDEWALK IN OR PAY THE FEE IN LEGAL 2023.
AND SO THAT WENT INTO EFFECT IN 2023.
AND I CONTINUE TO ASK THE QUESTION, IT'S NOT IN THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US, WAS THERE SOMETHING A, A MISUNDERSTANDING? AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A MISUNDERSTANDING FROM WHEN THE TIME THE DEVELOPMENT STARTED TO TODAY THAT THERE WAS NOT A SIDEWALK FEE OR, OR ACTUALLY REQUIRED FOR OUR HOUSE TO BE BUILT.
MAYBE THAT'S AN INTERNAL PROCESS, RIGHT? WHERE YOU HAVE TO DOCUMENT THAT.
THAT'S WHERE I CONTINUE TO ASK.
I'D BE SURPRISED IF IT WASN'T DOCUMENTED SOMEWHERE.
I'M LOOKING MORE AS AT THE FAIRNESS MM-HMM
OF, OF WHAT'S BEEN PUT IN PLACE.
I DON'T THINK WHEN, WHEN THAT HAPPENED, WE DIDN'T EVEN REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS.
I WAS, I SAW IT AS A VICTORY WHEN THIS GOT PUT IN PLACE THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT IN THESE RIDICULOUS SIDEWALKS OR PORTIONS OF MM-HMM
AND I, I JUST SAW IT AS A VICTORY.
I DIDN'T EVEN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO PAY IT.
I MEAN, I, I REALLY DIDN'T, AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I DON'T DISAGREE THAT IT'S KIND OF SILLY
[02:10:01]
TO, TO GO IN AND DO THIS TYPE OF IMPROVEMENT.BUT IF IT HAS BEEN COMMUNICATED, THEN THAT'S JUST, THAT'S PART OF THE DEAL.
LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, LIKE DARK SKIES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, WRITTEN INTO OUR, OUR RULES.
SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IS, IS IS IT DOCUMENTED SOMEWHERE? ARE WE DOING OUR JOB OR DID WE MISS IT? CAN THIS, CAN THIS BE PUT ON HOLD? YEAH.
I MEAN, I WOULD HATE TO DO THAT.
I WOULD HATE TO DO THAT IF, IF, IF, BECAUSE THESE FOLKS ARE WANTING TO MOVE IN AND WELL, THAT WOULD NOT PAUSE HIM FOR MOVING IN, WOULD IT? DIRECTOR CRANE? YEAH.
WE CAN WORK SOMETHING OUT AND WE CAN DO A TEMPORARY COO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT EVEN IF, EVEN IF THERE IS DOCUMENTATION ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, SHE STILL HAS THE OPTION TO COME AND ASK FOR AN EXCEPTION FOR THE VARIANCE.
CAN I MAKE A COMMENT, MR. CHAIRMAN? YES, SIR.
JUST BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, UM, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH A CITY THAT DOESN'T HAVE A REQUIREMENT LIKE THIS FOR A HOME BUILDER TO PUT IN A SIDEWALK.
I THINK IT, THE PUBLIC AT LARGE, BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE, THINK CITIES PUT IN SIDEWALKS AND THAT'S SELDOM TRUE.
UH, CITIES PUT IN SIDEWALKS WHEN FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE.
AND FOR THE LARGE PART OF MANY CITIES, THOSE ARE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS FOR CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN WHERE WE HAVE SOME FUNDS AVAILABLE FROM OTHER SOURCES.
UM, AND THEN WHEN SOME FUNDS ARE PUT TOGETHER AT THE EXPRESS DIRECTION OF THE CITY COUNCIL TO FILL IN SOME OF THE AREAS LIKE DIRECTOR CAROL WAS TALKING ABOUT, WHERE LIKE DOWNTOWN NEEDS SOME A DA RAMPS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UH, BUT LARGELY EVERY SIDEWALK YOU SEE WAS BUILT BY A HOME BUILDER, NOT A DEVELOPER.
DEVELOPERS TYPICALLY DO NOT BUILD SIDEWALKS, BUT WHEN YOUR PUBLIC SEES SIDEWALKS THERE, THEY ASSUME, OR AT LEAST A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE PUBLIC THINKS CITIES BUILT THEM.
THEY'RE BUILT BY HOME BUILDERS TYPICALLY, OR BUILDING OWNERS.
UH, I AM NOT FAMILIAR ANY OTHER CITY THAT I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN, AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF 'EM THAT HAS THIS TYPE OF A FUND IN LIEU OF CONSTRUCTION.
UH, THAT'S A FAIRLY NEW THING.
AND THAT'S TO GIVE THE RELIEF VALVE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR AN INDIVIDUAL.
EVERY SIDEWALK LEADS SOME, THEY'RE, EVERY SIDEWALK IS A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE 'CAUSE THEY ALL END.
SO IF YOU DO HAVE A PROGRAM DESIGNED TO FILL IN YOUR MOBILITY PLAN FOR PEDESTRIANS, YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.
AND SO THERE WILL OFTEN BE IN EVERY CITY, UH, ONE OR TWO HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN RECONSTRUCTED, UM, THAT HAVE SIDEWALKS.
AND NO ONE MAY BE WITHIN BLOCKS OF THEM HAVE SIDEWALKS BECAUSE OTHERWISE THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY IN ANY TYPE OF TRIGGER TO GO BACK AND MAKE AN EXISTING HOMEOWNER BUILD A SIDEWALK JUST TO CONNECT THEM.
THAT'S WHY THIS TYPE OF A FUND WAS SUCH A GREAT DEVICE TO ALLOW SOME OF THOSE AREAS TO BE BUILT IN.
SO YOU HAVE TO START OUT WITH SOME, SOME SIDEWALK.
AND IT'S USUALLY NEARLY ALWAYS IN A CITY.
I'M, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE IS, BUT IT'S AT LEAST 80% OF SIDEWALKS IN EVERY CITY ARE BUILT BY HOME BUILDERS, WHETHER IT'S ONE LOT OR A SUBDIVISION OR THREE LOTS.
AND SO THEY END SOMEWHERE WHEN THOSE HOUSES ARE BUILT, THOSE ARE ALL SIDEWALKS TO NOWHERE.
SO I HEAR THAT TERM A LOT WHEN WE'RE ENFORCING SIDEWALK ORDINANCES IN OTHER CITIES.
WELL, THIS SIDEWALK'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
IT'S GOING IN YOUR MOBILITY PLAN AND IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.
AND AGAIN, THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE A AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE OTHER HOMEOWNERS TO GO IN AND BUILD NEW SIDEWALKS ON THEIR EXISTING HOMES.
AND WE NEVER WILL HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.
SO ONLY THE, THE FUND THAT BERNIE IS ONE OF THE LEADERS IN MAKING AS THE IN, IN THE 2023 ORDINANCE TO MODIFY THE 1986 REQUIREMENT THAT SIDEWALKS BE BUILT IS REALLY DESIGNED TO HELP EVERYONE IN THAT MOBILITY PLAN.
SO I, IN MY EXPERIENCE, I'VE HEARD SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE SO MUCH THAT I CAN'T EVEN HARDLY COUNT.
BUT EVERY SIDEWALK IS A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE.
YOU KNOW, AM I ALLOWED TO? YES, MA'AM.
I MEAN, I THINK THIS IS A GREAT CONVERSATION, BUT AS SOMEONE WHO'S APPLYING FOR A PLAT, WHAT WAS SAID TO US IS YOU CAN PAY A FEE
[02:15:01]
TO NOT PUT IN A SIDEWALK.IT WAS NEVER SAID TO US THAT YOU HAVE TO GO AND HAVE AN ENGINEER DRAW UP A SIDEWALK, GET THE COST OF IT.
IT'S GONNA COST YOU THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND THEN YOU'RE GONNA PAY US AND NOT PUT IT IN.
WHEN YOU SAY THAT TO SOMEONE, IT NEEDS TO BE MADE REALLY CLEAR.
'CAUSE I'M THINKING I'M PAYING A $500 FEE, THEREFORE I DON'T HAVE TO PUT IN A SIDEWALK.
IT'S NOT MADE REALLY CLEAR UNLESS I AS A HOMEOWNER AM GONNA DIG INTO ALL THE PLANNING AND ZONING STUFF TO, TO UNDERSTAND NO, I'VE GOTTA ACTUALLY PAY FOR THAT SIDEWALK.
IT MAKES IT SOUND LIKE YOU'RE PAYING A FEE.
BUT WHAT WE'RE HERE TONIGHT TO ASK IS FOR A VARIANCE NOT TO PAY THAT FEE.
BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME STIPULATIONS IN THE UDC THAT SAY, IF LESS THAN 50% OF THE BLOCK FACE ON WHICH THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED HAS A SIDEWALK, THERE'S NOT ONE SIDEWALK ON HICKMAN STREET.
AND THE OTHER ONE IS THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THE VICINITY AND IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE DEVELOPMENT NEARBY THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE INSTALLATION OF SIDEWALKS.
AND WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A RESIDENTIAL AREA WHERE THERE'S NO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, SUBDIVISIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT GOING IN.
SO WE MEET THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS THAT WILL ALLOW US TO SEEK A VARIANCE, NOT TO PAY THE IN LIEU OF, BUT TO PAY THIS FEE THAT WE PAID IN ORDER TO NOT DO EITHER NOT PUT IN A SIDEWALK AND NOT PAY FOR THE FUND TO PAY THE COST OF THE SIDEWALK.
DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO FOLLOW UP? SURE.
UM, SO WHEN, YEAH, WHEN WE CREATED THE FEE IN LIEU OF ORDINANCE, UM, WE CREATED FOUR SECTIONS.
'CAUSE AGAIN, PRIOR TO THE 2023 FEE IN LIEU OF ORDINANCE, EVERYONE HAD TO PUT SIDEWALK IN.
SO WE CREATED THE ORDINANCE AND WE CREATED A, A PATHWAY THAT THE DIRECTOR ME COULD DECIDE IF IT WAS ELIGIBLE TO BE THE FEE IN LIEU OF.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE, UM, WE CREATED ON TRYING TO FIND THE SLIDE.
YEAH, SO THERE'S FOUR, THERE'S FOUR SECTIONS.
AND SO YES, SO WHAT THE APPLICANT READ IS THESE ARE THE FOUR THINGS.
'CAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT SOMEONE IN REGION PARK, I WANNA PAY THE FEE EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE AROUND ME HAS SIDEWALKS.
SO WE CREATED RULES ON WHO WOULD BE ELIGIBLE TO PAY THE FEE IN LIEU OF, AND YES, TWO OF THE RULES ARE MET AT THIS LOCATION.
LESS THAN 50% OF THE BLOCK FACE ON WHICH PROPERTY IS LOCATED HAS A SIDEWALK.
AND THEN THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS IN THE VICINITY.
SO IT MEETS THESE TWO REQUIREMENTS.
SO IT'S ELIGIBLE FOR THE FEE IN LIEU OF, BUT THERE'S STILL A FEE THAT HAS TO BE PAID.
UM, THERE'S STILL A DOLLAR AMOUNT THERE THAT BY THE CODE REQUIREMENT.
LET'S, THERE'S SEVERAL HOUSES IN THAT FEE BLOCK AREA OF HER HOUSE THAT ARE NEW.
HAVE ANY OF THEM AGREED TO PUT A SIDEWALK IN OR DO THEY ALL PAY THE FEE IN LIEBE? I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE RECORDS HERE WITH ME, BUT THEN AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW, SOME HOUSES ARE REMODELS AND SOME ARE COMPLETE TEAR DOWN REBUILDS.
SO A REMODEL WOULD'VE QUALIFIED.
IF IT WAS A REMODEL WE WOULDN'T HAVE GOT TO IT.
BUT IT'S WHEN THEY'RE COMPLETELY TEARED DOWN, REBUILDS IS DEFINITELY WHERE WE COME IN AND ASK, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE PAID THE FEE? I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THAT WITH ME.
UM, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN OTHERS YES.
AND I DON'T THINK WE'VE EVER SEEN A VARIANCE REQUEST FOR THIS BEFORE.
THIS IS THE FIRST, SINCE WE CREATED THE ORDINANCE, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE BROUGHT IT FORWARD TO YOU.
'CAUSE OTHERS HAVE JUST PAID AND NONE OF IT, NO ONE'S EVER BEEN DISMISSED ADMINISTRATIVELY.
OR IF AGAIN, WE, WE HAVE IT SET UP WHERE IF YOU MEET ANY OF THESE FOUR THINGS, YOU'RE ELIGIBLE TO PAY THE FEE IN LIEU OF THIS ONE MEETS TWO OF THE FOUR.
BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT NOT PAYING A FEE AT ALL.
WE'VE NEVER HAD THIS QUESTION ASKED BEFORE.
WHAT IS A FEE TYPICALLY? IS THERE AN AVERAGE FEE? EVERY LOT IS SLIGHTLY BIGGER THAN OTHERS.
UH, AS SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS IS KIND OF A CORNER LOT, BUT IT'S THE COST OF BUILDING SIDEWALK.
SO THEY'LL, UH, ENGINEER A CONSULTANT WILL DO A LITTLE COST ESTIMATE OF WHAT THEY THINK THAT SIDEWALK COST WILL BE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE BASE THE FEE ON.
AND THEN WE HAVE FROM OUR OTHER SIDEWALK PROJECTS, WE HAVE A ROUGH IDEA.
SO YOU HAD TO NORMALLY WHAT OUR, WHAT OUR COSTS TO BUILD ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER WHEN A CITY CONTRACTOR COMES IN.
OUR COSTS ARE WAY MORE HIGHER THAN WHEN TYPICAL HOME BUILDERS COME IN.
BUT WE LOOK AT 'EM AND THEY'RE IN THE CORRECT GENERAL RANGE OF WHAT A COST OF SIDEWALK PER SQUARE YARD IS.
AND THEN ONE OF THE CREDITS YOU GIVE AGAINST THAT, I, I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND THAT PART OF THE PRESENTATION, THAT THERE WAS A, I THOUGHT I HEARD A $25,000 COST AND 22,000 IN CREDITS.
SO THE ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY, UM, I'M TRYING TO FIND THAT SLIDE TONIGHT WE'RE, WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING SIDEWALKS.
[02:20:01]
ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY, IT'S TO THE WHOLE ROADWAY NETWORK AS A WHOLE.IT'S THE, THE ROADS THEMSELVES AND THE SIDEWALKS ARE PART OF THAT ROADWAY SYSTEM.
UM, SO WHEN YOU BUILD A HOUSE, YOU'RE CREATING PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC, ROADWAY TRAFFIC.
YOU'RE PUTTING A, A DEMAND ON THE, EITHER IT'S THE SIDEWALK SYSTEM OR THE ROADWAY SYSTEM.
UM, IN OUR ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY SPREADSHEET, UM, WE HAVE A BIG FANCY SPREADSHEET THAT YOU PUT IN HOW MUCH TRAFFIC THIS PARTICULAR USE, WHETHER IT'S A HOUSE OR A NEIGHBORHOOD OR A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, YOU PUT IN WHAT THAT TRAFFIC DEMAND IS AND IT'LL CALCULATE A DEMAND ON THE ROADWAY SYSTEM.
AND THEN YOU GO IN AND LOOK AT WHAT THE ACTUAL, UH, REQUIREMENTS ARE.
THERE ARE CASES THAT ARE, ARE, WE'VE TALKED DECAL LANES EARLIER TONIGHT.
THERE ARE TIMES WHEN OUR RULES SAY YOU HAVE TO GO DO ALL THESE THINGS, BUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GO LOOK AT THE DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM THAT THE TRAFFIC ACTUALLY GENERATES WHERE ASKING FOR HIGHER DOLLAR AMOUNT THAN WHAT THEIR, IS THE PROPORTIONAL SHARE FOR THEIR PROJECT.
AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME WHERE, OH, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS DESAL LANE OR THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE TO DO BECAUSE IT'S GREATER THAN THE PROPORTIONAL SHARE FOR YOUR PROJECT.
UM, AND EVEN GETS INTO REALLY LARGE PROJECTS.
IT'S THE SAME WAY, WHETHER THAT'S REGION PARK OR SOME OTHER THING THAT YOU GET TO COUNT, LIKE REGION PARK FOR EXAMPLE, GOT TO COUNT THE COLLECTOR ROADS.
THERE'S THE MAIN COLLECTOR ROADS THAT ARE THROUGH.
SO THOSE ARE ACTUALLY ON OUR THOROUGHFARE PLAN.
SO THOSE ARE A COMPONENT OF OUR ROADWAY NETWORK SYSTEM SO THAT DEVELOPER GETS TO COUNT THOSE COSTS.
UM, BUT THERE'S A, IT IS A, IT'S ALL BASED ON MANY, MANY, MANY COURT CASES.
M**K CAN TELL YOU TALK AN HOUR PROBABLY ON ALL THE COURT CASES THAT HAVE ESTABLISHED THE ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY WHERE, WELL, LET ME ASK A QUICK QUESTION BECAUSE I'D KIND OF LIKE TO GET TO THE, TO A VOTE ON THIS.
UM, DID I JUST HEAR YOU SAY THAT THIS COST IN FRONT OF US HERE INCLUDES NOT ONLY THE SIDEWALK BUT WEAR AND TEAR ON THE ROAD AND, AND THE TRAFFIC IMPACT.
SO THE, THIS SPREADSHEET HERE, THE $24,000 MM-HMM
THAT IS THE DEMAND THAT IS PUT ON THE SYSTEM BY THIS A HOUSE? OR IS IT BOTH HOUSES OR TWO LOTS? SO THAT'S NOT, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COST OF A SIDEWALK, DOES IT? CORRECT.
SO IF SHE HAD TO PUT $27,000 WORTH OF SIDEWALK IN, WE WOULD'VE COME BACK AND SAID, IF YOUR 27 IS HIGHER THAN 24, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO, YOU ONLY HAVE TO DO 24,000.
WE CAN'T ASK FOR ANYTHING ABOVE AND BEYOND THE ROUGH PROPORTIONAL SHARE IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIDEWALKS AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING IN A PROPORTIONAL SHARE OF TRAFFIC ON A ROAD AND ROAD IMPROVEMENTS AND CURB AND GUTTERS AND CUTS AND ALL THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT JUST, UH, THAT CERTAINLY DOESN'T SIT RIGHT WITH ME.
I DIDN'T REALIZE WE WERE DOING THAT BECAUSE THAT'S, UH, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE PUTTING THEIR HOUSE.
THERE'S NOT GONNA CAUSE ANY MORE DEMAND ON THE ROAD SYSTEM THAN THE HOUSE WAS THERE BEFORE THEM.
THERE WERE TWO HOUSES IN THE COMPANIES.
SO THERE, THERE'S A ROUGH PROPORTIONAL SHARE WITH ANYTHING, WHETHER IT'S A HOUSE OR 10 HOUSES OR A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OR ANYTHING.
EVERYTHING PUTS SOME SORT OF ROADWAY OR PEDESTRIAN.
BUT THE OTHER PART IN HERE IS THEY, AS PART OF THEIR PLATING PROCESS, THEY WERE REQUIRED TO DO A RIGHT OF AWAY DEDICATION.
SO THAT'S THIS 1946 SQUARE FEET OR RIGHT OF WAY THAT'S INCLUDED INTO THAT COST ESTIMATE.
WE HAVE SOME PROJECTS WHERE, UM, IT'S KIND OF, WE WANNA DO THE RIGHT OF WAY DEDICATION IS LIKE THE FIRST ASK SO THAT WE COULD COME IN AND HAVE ROOM TO DO A PROJECT AT A LATER DATE.
UM, THEN THE NEXT ASK IS TO GO ACTUALLY DO THIS LOCATION ACTUALLY DOES HAVE CURBS.
THERE'S OTHER PLACES IN TOWN THAT DON'T HAVE CURBS.
UM, SO THAT WE DIDN'T ASK THEM TO DO CURBS 'CAUSE THE CURBS ARE ALREADY THERE.
UM, SO WE'RE ASKING 'EM TO DO THE SIDEWALKS.
UM, KNOWING THAT THIS COST ESTIMATE ISN'T JUST SIDEWALKS.
I'M, I'M, I PERSONALLY AM READY TO VOTE AND GIVE THEM THIS WAIVER.
MR. KATES, DO YOU HAVE A MOTION? WELL, I, I BELIEVE WE HAD A MOTION MADE.
I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE AND THE WAIVER OF THE FEE AND THE WAIVER OF THE, THAT THE VARIANCE IS FOR THE WAIVER OF THE FEE.
CAN I ASK REAL QUICK, WHAT, WHAT IS, WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT THIS, THIS PROJECT THAT WILL, IF SOMEBODY COMES AND ASKS FOR ANOTHER ONE, IF I, UH, THE FACT THAT I JUST FOUND OUT THAT THIS ISN'T JUST THE COST OF A SIDEWALK AT $27,000.
THIS IS, THEY'RE CALCULATING ANY ROADWAY WEAR AND TEAR.
THEY ROADWAY AND TEAR SHOULD BE A CREDIT.
NOW THERE'S ONE, THE, THE FEE AND LIE SIDEWALK WOULD BE $8,000 WOULD BE THE $8,000 AMOUNT, 8,000.
BUT IT'S, BUT IT'S BASED ON A COST OF $24,000 LESS WHAT WE SAY YOU GAVE US BACK FOR SIDEWALK.
SO NO, THAT'S, THAT, THAT, BUT, BUT THAT'S SAME.
BUT THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S MY DETERMINING FACTOR.
BUT THAT FORMULA HAS ALREADY BEEN USED WITH OTHER PROPERTIES.
WE, WE USE THE ROUGH, ANYTIME WE HAVE TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDIES OR LARGE PROJECTS TYPICALLY
[02:25:01]
HAPPENS MORE IN LARGE PROJECTS.BUT THIS WAS SOMETHING WE'D LOOKED AT, UM, BECAUSE THE QUESTION WAS ASKED, DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR ALL THIS SIDEWALK? WE PULL OUR ROUGH PROPORTIONALITY WORKSHEET OUT AND DOUBLE CHECK THE MATH, UM, TO SEE IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE OVER THE AMOUNT.
UM, SO AGAIN, FOR THIS CASE, THE 24,000 IS THE DEMAND ON THE SYSTEM, THE 8,000 PLUS THE DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT WE PROVIDED FOR THE RIGHT OF WAY.
UM, DEDICATION WAS LESS THAN THAT.
SO WE SAID IT WAS STILL PROPORTIONAL TO THE PROJECT.
AND THAT'S THE SAME FORMULA YOU WOULD APPLY ACROSS THE BOARD, WHETHER IT'S A SMALL PROJECT OR A GINORMOUS PROJECT, IT'S THE SAME FORMULA THAT'S MATH BASED ON THE NUMBER OF TRIPS THAT THEY'RE GENERATING PRIOR TO THE CHANGE MAKE, WHERE YOU COULD PAY A FEE IN LIEU OF, EXCUSE ME, SORRY.
PRIOR TO THE CHANGE WHERE YOU COULD PAY A FEE IN LIEU OF THE SIDEWALK, WAS THERE A MECHANISM TO HAVE A VARIANCE TO NOT HAVE A SIDEWALK? YES.
YOU COULD ALWAYS COME ASK ANY PART OF THE CODE.
IN GENERAL, THEY COULD ASK, THEY'D HAVE BEEN BETTER SUITED BACK THEN.
AND SO THAT'S WHERE THERE WERE CASES, I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT THERE WERE CASES OF PEOPLE COMING IN AND ASKING TO DO VARIANCES.
AND THERE HAVE BEEN DEVELOPERS THAT COME IN AND ASK TO DO ONE SIDE OR, UH, OTHER THINGS OVER THE TOTAL COURSE OF TIME.
SO I HOPE THAT THE PRECEDENCE, IF, IF THIS VARIANCE GETS APPROVED, I HOPE IT SETS A PRECEDENCE THAT MAYBE WE NEED TO GO BACK AND REVISIT THIS TOPIC AND THE UDC AND HOW IT IMPACTS THE TRUE IMPACT, WHICH WE'VE DONE ON OTHER PROJECTS AS WELL.
SO MY MOTION IS TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE WHERE THERE'S NO FEE AND NO SIDEWALK.
MAYOR BY COMMISSIONER FIRE, AND A SECOND BY COMMISSIONER KATES, PLEASE MAKE YOUR VOTE, MAN.
I AM MISSING A BOAT FROM COMMISSIONER FRIAR.
JUST 'CAUSE YOU MADE THE MOTION DIDN'T MEAN YOU'RE GONNA VOTE FOR IT.
ALRIGHT, MOVING FORWARD TO THAT COMPLETES OUR, DID YOU ANNOUNCE THE VOTE? OH, I'M SORRY.
IT WAS, UM, IT WAS A SIX ONE VOTE.
UM, MOVING OFF OF THE REGULAR AGENDA
[2026-192 Discuss a proposed Single Family Residential development located approximately 450 feet northwest of the intersection of Herff Road and Old San Antonio Road.]
INTO DISCUSSION ITEM TO DISCUSS A PROPOSED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 450 FEET NORTHWEST OF THE INTERSECTION OF HERF ROAD IN OLD SAN ANTONIO ROAD.FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT HAD THE PLEASURE OF MEETING, MY NAME IS WILLIAM WILLINGHAM.
I'M A PLANNER TWO HERE WITH THE CITY OF BERNIE.
I CAME FROM THE CITY OF SHIRTS.
YOU MAY HEAR ME SLIP UP AND SAY THE CITY OF SHIRTS A NUMBER OF TIMES.
HAPPY TO BE HERE AND JOIN THE TEAM WITH ALL OF YOU ALL.
THIS IS DISCUSSION ITEM FOUR, HERF CALDERA TRACT.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY LOCATED ALONG OLD SAN ANTONIO ROAD AND HERF ROAD, JUST NORTH OF HERF ROAD.
UM, THE DEVELOPER IS MARCUS MYNO WITH SCOTT FELDER HOMES.
HE COULD NOT MAKE IT TO THIS MEETING.
UH, SO WE DO HAVE AN APPLICANT PRESENT TO PROVIDE PRESENTATION.
UH, TODAY THEY'RE HERE TO DISCUSS A FEEDBACK FOR A POTENTIAL VARIANCE REQUEST.
AND SO THE FOLLOWING VARIANCE REQUEST WOULD BE FOR, AND NOT LIMITED TO RIGHT OF WAY WIDTH, MAXIMUM DEAD END STREET LENGTH, MINIMUM POINTS OF VEHICULAR AXIS AND MINIMUM DRIVEWAY LENGTH.
AND I PUT AN ASTERISK THERE JUST SO THE COMMISSION IS AWARE THAT MINIMUM DRIVEWAY LENGTH IS SET BY THE ZONING.
AND SO THIS WOULD NOT BE A VARIANCE REQUEST.
IT WOULD ACTUALLY NEED TO BE IN THE FORM OF A PUD.
UM, THE APPLICANT WOULD NEED TO COME FORTH AND PRESENT A PUD FOR THAT SPECIFIC REQUEST.
UH, SO THIS IS THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY.
IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED R THREE A.
IT IS LOCATED WITHIN THE SO OBO OVERLAY DISTRICT, SPECIFICALLY WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER ZONE.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONSTRAINTS OF THE PROPERTY.
THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY LOCATED WITHIN A DPZ ONE AND DPZ TWO, WHICH YOU CAN SEE RIGHT HERE ALONG THE EDGE OF THE PROPERTY, AND IS ALSO LOCATED WITHIN THE LOWER GLEN ROSE BUFFER AND THE LOWER GLEN ROSE BOUNDARY.
AND THIS IS THE MASTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN OF THE PROPERTY.
SO YOU CAN SEE HERE THAT THERE WAS A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH WAS ADOPTED IN 2009.
YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THE LOT WITH MULTIFAMILY HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
AND THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE A PRESENTATION.
AND BEFORE I, AGAIN, JUST WANNA REMIND THE COMMISSION THAT THERE'S NO ACTION BEING TAKEN ON THIS ITEM TODAY.
THIS IS JUST A DISCUSSION ITEM.
AND I DID ALSO WANNA MENTION THAT WE HAVE HAD CORRESPONDENCE
[02:30:01]
WITH THE APPLICANT.UH, WE JUST HAVE NOT HAD A PRE-APPLICATION MEETING WITH THEM.
SO BASICALLY FOR ALL OF US TO GET IN THE ROOM AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.
UM, BUT THERE HAS BEEN SOME COORDINATION AT THIS TIME.
UM, SO I YIELD MY TIME TO THE APPLICANT.
MS. FAIRMAN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
ASHLEY FAIRMAN WITH KILLING GRIFFIN AND FAIRMONT.
I'M HERE TONIGHT ON BEHALF OF SCOTT FELDER HOMES.
UM, MARCUS MORENO WITH SCOTT FELDER COULDN'T BE HERE.
AND WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER FOR MANY YEARS ON A LOT OF PROJECTS.
SO, UM, WE'RE ASKING FOR SOME FEEDBACK TONIGHT.
KIND OF IS THIS A PROJECT THAT YOU ALL WOULD BE INTERESTED IN? WHAT'S THE RIGHT PATH TO GO? UM, AND SO JUST LOOKING REALLY FOR WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON, ON THE OVERALL DEVELOPMENT AND IF WE PURSUE A VARIANCE, IF WE PURSUE A PUT, UM, IF YOU LIKE THE PROJECT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE POINT.
SO WE APPRECIATE YOU ALL DOING THIS WITHOUT TAKING ACTION.
UM, SO WILLIAM SHOWED WHERE THE PROPERTY IS AT, UM, HERF ROAD, BUT ACCESS ONLY FROM OLD SAN ANTONIO ROAD.
UM, SO THE PROPERTY IS ZONED R THREE A, SO THAT'S ATTACHED DWELLING UNITS.
UM, THERE HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THIS PROJECT THAT HAVE COME BEFORE YOU, AS WAS MENTIONED IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FROM MANY YEARS AGO, IS PROPOSED TO BE HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT DOING IS A SINGLE FAMILY COMMUNITY.
UM, IN ORDER TO DO THAT, BECAUSE THE LOT IS SMALL, IT'S ONLY A LITTLE LESS THAN SIX AND A HALF ACRES.
UM, TO HAVE THE INDIVIDUALLY PLATTED LOTS WITH HOMES THAT WE THINK ARE OF THE RIGHT SIZE, UM, DO NEED SOME VARIANCES FOR THAT REQUEST.
SO THIS WAS A, A PLAN, UH, THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FOR A TOWN HOME TYPE PROJECT.
THIS WAS A, AND I BELIEVE NATHAN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THIS PUD IS EXPIRED.
UM, SO THIS WAS A, A VERSION OF THE PLAN YOU ALL MAY HAVE SEEN BEFORE.
UH, AND THESE LOTS HERE ARE VARYING BETWEEN ABOUT 1700 SQUARE FEET TO 2200 SQUARE FEET OR SO.
UH, AND THEY'RE 48 TOWN HOMES.
SO WHAT SCOTT FELDER WOULD LIKE TO DO IS A 30 LOT PROJECT.
AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS ABOUT 6,500 SQUARE FEET, UH, WITH THE SMALLEST BEING AROUND 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO ALL OF THESE WOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES FOR SALE.
UH, THEY'VE DONE SIMILAR SMALLER COMMUNITIES.
THERE'S ONE, IF, IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT IT, UH, NEAR CROWN RIDGE, UH, JUST NORTH OF LARA IN SAN ANTONIO.
UM, BUT THIS HERE AGAIN, IS SIX AND A HALF ACRES OR SO, 30 UNITS.
THE LOT WIDTH ON THESE IS A MINIMUM OF 45 FEET.
UH, SO IT'S A MINIMUM HOUSE WIDTH OF 35 FEET.
UH, AND THEN THE LOT DEPTH VARY FROM 110, 120 OR SO.
UM, OTHER THINGS ON THIS PROJECT, UH, YOU'LL SEE THERE'S ABOUT OF THE SIX AND A HALF ACRES, THERE'S ABOUT AN ACRE OR SO OF OPEN SPACE, UM, ABOUT 0.88 ACRES OF RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN THE REST, UH, ABOUT FOUR AND A HALF OR SO ACRES ARE, UM, THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
UM, ONE THING I ALSO DO WANNA POINT OUT IS, AS THE CUL-DE-SAC KIND OF WRAPS AROUND, THERE ARE 11 GUEST PARKING SPACES.
UM, AND IT'S EASIER TO SEE ON THIS PLAN, BUT I'LL EXPLAIN WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT IN JUST A MINUTE.
UM, SO AGAIN, TO MAKE THIS PROJECT WORK, UM, EITHER NEED TO PURSUE A, A PUD OR SEEK SOME VARIANCES FROM YOU ALL.
SO THE FIRST ONE WOULD BE MAXIMUM CUL-DE-SAC LENGTH.
SO IT WORKED ON DIFFERENT VARIATIONS OF HOW THIS STREET COULD LOOK.
WE FEEL LIKE THIS IS THE BEST, UH, EASIEST ROUTE WITH ONE ACCESS IN ONES ACCESS OUT.
IT WOULD BE A GATED PRIVATE STREET.
UH, AND THAT CUL-DE-SAC IS, UM, 950 FEET INSTEAD OF 600 FEET.
AND THEN THE OTHER REQUESTS ARE REGARDING THE STREET.
SO, UM, STREET RIGHT OF WAY, FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE LOOKING TO REDUCE THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY FROM 60 FEET TO 46 FEET.
UM, PAVEMENT WEIGHT WIDTH, THAT'S A REDUCTION FROM 36 FEET WIDE PAVEMENT TO 28 FOOT WIDE PAVEMENT.
UH, WITH THAT WE WOULD BE REQUIRED ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET TO STRIPE IT AS NO PARKING.
UM, SO THAT ENSURE THAT CARS CAN GET BY.
UM, AND THAT'S WHY THERE'S ALSO THOSE 11 GUEST PARKING SPACES AS WELL.
UM, IF THE COMMISSION THINKS THAT THERE COULD BE MORE GUEST PARKING THAT'S NEEDED, UM, SOME OF THE OPEN SPACE COULD ALSO BE CONVERTED TO MORE PARKING SPACES WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S ONE VARIANCE REQUEST.
UM, ANOTHER ONE IS REGARDING THE, UM, GARAGES.
SO WITH THIS, AND IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARD TO SEE ON HERE, UM, BUT WHAT THEY WOULD PROPOSE TO DO, AND AS WILLIAM MENTIONED, THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE THROUGH THE POD, BUT 20 FEET IS THE DRIVEWAY LENGTH.
AND THAT ALLOWS FOR THE CAR TO BE FULLY IN THE DRIVEWAY.
UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO MEASURE THAT FROM THE CURB INSTEAD OF THE RIGHT OF WAY LINE.
SO, UM, THAT ALLOWS FOR THE 20 FEET, BUT KEEPS THE LOT DEPTH IN THE HOUSE THE SIZE THAT THEY WANT.
SO IN ORDER TO, AND THESE HOUSES ARE SAY 2,800 SQUARE FEET TO 3,200 SQUARE FEET OR SO, IN ORDER TO HAVE A HOUSE OF THAT SIZE, WHICH IS ABOUT
[02:35:01]
75 TO 80 FEET DEEP, YOU NEED THE 15, AT LEAST 15 FEET IN THE REAR, BUT ALSO THE 20 FEET IN THE FRONT.SO IF THE HOUSES GET SMALLER, THEY GET MOSTLY THAN TWO STORY, AND IT'S HARD TO GET A MASTER BEDROOM DOWNSTAIRS.
SO AT THE PRICE POINT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR, UM, AT THE KINDA TARGETED AUDIENCE FOR THIS, THEY WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE HOUSES ARE BIG ENOUGH.
UH, AND THEN THAT THERE'S AMPLE YARD SPACE.
SO THAT WOULD BE 20 FEET IN THE FRONT MEASURED FROM THE CURB.
UH, AND THEN AGAIN, THE 15 FEET IN THE BACK, UM, SIDEWALKS AGAIN, AND I JUST HAD A, A LONG DISCUSSION ON THAT.
UM, WE'RE NOT SEEKING A VARIANCE ON THE, THE FEES ON THE SIDEWALK, BUT ARE INTERESTED IN NOT BUILDING THE SIDEWALKS.
UM, IT'S A SMALL COMMUNITY, WE'RE NOT SURE THAT THEY ARE NECESSARY, BUT THAT BEING SAID, WE'D ALSO JUST DON'T FEEL THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR THEM IN ORDER TO BUILD THIS PRODUCT TYPE.
UM, AND SO IT'S JUST UNDER CITY REQUIREMENTS.
IT WOULD BE, UM, THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY, AND THEN YOU HAVE A SIDEWALK AND THEN YOU HAVE A UTILITY EASEMENT.
UM, AND THEN FROM THERE YOU HAVE THE HOUSE.
AND SO ALL OF THAT IN THE FRONT.
UM, AND WE CAN'T, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, WE CAN'T BUILD THE SIDEWALKS IN THE UTILITY EASEMENT.
UM, SO THERE'S JUST NOT AMPLE ROOM FOR THEM TO BUILD AGAIN, THE PRODUCT THEY WANT.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LIKE YOU ALL'S FEEDBACK ON.
IT'S NOT THAT THEY DON'T WANT THE SIDEWALKS, BUT JUST NOT SURE THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR THEM.
UH, AND AGAIN, NOT SEEKING A VARIANCE FROM, FROM THE FEE ON THAT PIECE.
UM, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF, OF WHAT THE HOMES WOULD LOOK LIKE.
AGAIN, THERE ARE OTHER COMMUNITIES THAT SCOTT FELDER HAS BUILT, UH, WHERE YOU CAN SEE MORE OF THEIR HOMES.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, SEEKING TO BUILD THE SINGLE FAMILY, UM, FOR SALE PRODUCT THAT'S A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN WHAT THE PREVIOUS PROPOSALS HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIT WITHIN THAT ATTACHED ZONING.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, JUST LOOKING FOR YOU ALL'S FEEDBACK ON IF THIS IS A PROJECT THAT YOU THINK IS A GOOD IDEA HERE, UM, WE THINK IT WORKS WELL.
UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, AND IF IF YOU DO ARE OPEN TO IT, THEN YOU KNOW HOW, WHAT'S THE BEST ROUTE TO PURSUE, UM, FOR IT TO BE CONSTRUCTED.
SO HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
MS. FERMAN, THE CROWN RIDGE DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM
DOES IT HAVE SOME OF THOSE SIMILAR SPACE RESTRICTIONS? IT'S A, IT'S A PRETTY SIMILAR LAYOUT TO THIS.
IT'S WITHIN THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO.
UM, SO I AM HAPPY TO SHARE THERE'S A SITE PLAN ONLINE TOO, BUT WE HAVE IT.
BUT YES, IT IS SIMILAR LOT SIZES AND SIMILAR HOME SIZES.
THE, UH, THE NO PARKING ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET, IS THAT HOA ENFORCED? UM, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I MEAN, IT WOULD HAVE AN HOA AND THE HOA WOULD INCLUDE THAT IN ITS DOCUMENTS, BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THE CITY ENFORCED THAT AS WELL.
REQUIRE SIGNS AND THEY'RE HERE FORCE BY FIRE, MARSHAL POLICE, FIRE MARSHALS, THE ONE WHO GOES AND WATCHES FROM PARKING AND FIRES AND WHATNOT.
SO THAT WOULD BE THE DESIGNATED FIRE LANE? CORRECT.
BECAUSE HAVING, HAVING LIVED IN HUA COMMUNITIES, AND PARTICULARLY WITH THESE HOMES THAT ARE 3000 SQUARE FEET, YOU PROBABLY HAVE AT LEAST TWO, THREE, MAYBE FOUR CARS PER FAMILY THAT YOU'RE GONNA RUN INTO.
YOU'RE GONNA RUN INTO A PARKING PROBLEM,
BUT YES, I ALSO LIVE IN AN HOA COMMUNITY, BUT PEOPLE STILL PARK ON THE STREET.
SO THIS IS A SIMILAR SETUP TO ACROSS FROM BERNIE, UH, CHAMPION HIGH SCHOOL, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD DIRECTLY ACROSS WOODS OF BURN.
THERE'S A COUPLE OF STREETS IN THERE THAT HAVE THAT PARKING SITUATION.
IT'S TERRIBLE IF WE'RE BEING HONEST.
AND I'LL TELL YOU, IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO SELL THOSE HOMES ON A STREET LIKE THAT.
I I WOULD NOT, I WOULD NOT BE MY FIRST CHOICE.
WHO'S YOUR, UH, TARGET MARKET AND PRICE RANGE FOR THE, FOR THE HOMES HERE? UM, MINIMUM PRICE WOULD BE 500,000.
UH, THE OTHER COMMUNITIES TEND TO, I MEAN, TEND TO BE MORE EMPTY NESTER, UM, NOT AS MANY CHILDREN.
UM, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S WHO, WHO WANTS TO BE HERE.
SO THERE'S NO RESTRICTION ON THAT, OBVIOUSLY, BUT THAT TENDS TO BE WHO LIVES THERE IS ENTRY LEVEL FOR BERNIE.
ONE THING THAT, UH, WE HAD SOBO HAS BEEN SUCH A DISAPPOINTMENT, I THINK, UH, FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IN BERNIE, IT WAS SOLD AS A, YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF A MASTER DESIGN, WALKABLE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, RIDE YOUR BIKES, BRING YOUR FAMILY, TAKE THE KIDS, GO GET ICE CREAM, FIND A PLACE TO EAT.
UH, AND THEN EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS IS JUST OPPOSITE OF THAT VISION.
UH, NO SIDEWALKS, IT'S NOT WALKABLE.
[02:40:01]
KNOW, YOUR 11 PARKING SPACES DOWN BY THE, UH, UH, CUL-DE-SAC.I MEAN, IF, IF I'VE GOT GUESTS AND I'M IN LOCKED, UH, SIX, THEY'RE NOT GONNA PARK DOWN THERE AND WALK BACK.
UM, I KNOW WE LOOKED AT THIS BEFORE MORE AS A, UH, I THINK THE LAST PERSON WAS KIND OF DEVELOPING AS KIND OF A STEP BEFORE YOU WENT NEXT DOOR TO THE ASSISTED OR TO THE NURSING HOME AND, AND KIND OF MORE OF A, UH, SENIOR LIVING TYPE.
AND, AND, UM, UH, THAT'S JUST A, THAT'S A TOUGH PROPERTY THERE.
AND I THINK THERE HAD BEEN SOME TALK ABOUT HAVING AN ACCESS BACK OUT TO THE SOUTH THERE WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE A GREEN SPACE NOW, BUT CONNECTING IT COULD BE AN ACCESS POINT THERE.
UM, I THOUGHT ABOUT ROAD ACCESS TO CONNECT DOWN TO THAT.
UH, YEAH, IT COULD BE CUL-DE-SAC THERE.
UM, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE TALKED ABOUT INTERNALLY AND, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE OPEN TO.
THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THE SECONDARY ACCESS IS NECESSARY, BUT THAT'S WHERE IT WOULD GO IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CITY WANTED TO SEE.
RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST PROPOSED FOR PEDESTRIAN ACCESS.
I'M JUST LOOKING AT THIS AS TRYING TO KEEP WITH A VISION OF WHAT IT WAS SOLD TO THE RESIDENTS OF BERNIE AT, AND THAT'S NOT A REFLECTION ON YOU, YOUR BUSINESS OR WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO.
IT'S JUST, UH, THIS HAS JUST BEEN A REAL DISAPPOINTMENT TO THE, TO, TO THE COMMUNITY.
AND I THINK, UM, I THINK THE LAST PROJECT WE LOOKED AT IT LOOKED AT, IT WAS A SENIOR COMMUNITY, AND, UM, I THINK WE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL AND THEN THEY GOT THE COUNCIL AND GOT VOTED DOWN BECAUSE OF THE SOBO, UM, INTENTION THAT, THAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING MORE WALKABLE.
UM, AND I GUESS SENIORS DON'T WALK, I DON'T KNOW
BUT YOU, YOU MIGHT, YOU MIGHT HAVE A, A STRUGGLE WITH YOUR SIDEWALKS OR, OR LACK OF BASED ON, ON WHAT WE SAW, BUT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION, I THINK IT'S TRYING TO CRAM TOO MUCH INTO, WELL WE'RE, WE'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO LESS THAN, LIKE, THIS IS THE PREVIOUS PROPOSAL.
SO WE'RE 18 LESS UNITS THAN THE PREVIOUS.
WHAT WAS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE HOUSES FOR THE 30 LOTS? UH, 2,800 TO 3,200 SQUARE FEET OR SO.
I THINK THERE'S A MUCH BIGGER NEED.
I MEAN, YOU CAN GET THAT A LOT OF PLACES HERE IN BURN.
MAYBE NOT RIGHT THERE IN SOBO, BUT I THINK THERE'S A, A BIGGER NEED FOR SMALLER HOMES IN TOWN.
THERE'S A LOT OF COLLEGE KIDS COMING BACK THAT WANT A SMALL COTTAGE OR THE WAY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVEN'T STARTED FAMILIES JUST GETTING MARRIED.
LIKE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER THE PEOPLE DOWNSIZING, THE RETIREES, THE YOUNG PROFESSIONALS, I THINK, I THINK THAT'S A NICHE THAT WE'RE DEFINITELY MISSING.
WE JUST APPROVED A DUPLEX COMMUNITY, UM, NOT TOO LONG AGO THAT KIND OF FITS THAT SAME LITTLE MORE, THE ONE NEXT TO, UM, HAMPTONS.
I TH I THINK, DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING MORE DESIRABLE IN THIS AREA? WELL, TO THAT POINT, THE, THE PROJECTS THAT DID TRY TO ADDRESS THAT HAVE NOT REALLY FULFILLED MM-HMM
THEY'RE THEIR COMMITMENT AND THEY'VE LEFT A REALLY BAD TASTE.
UM, SO I, I THINK THERE IS ROOM FOR A MORE AFFORDABLE PROJECT.
THERE IS A DARLING LITTLE CON, UM, CONDO COMMUNITY HERE.
THERE'S PROBABLY LESS THAN 20 UNITS.
UM, AND THEY WOULD SELL LIKE HOT CAKES EXCEPT THEIR HOA DOES NOT ALLOW ANY RENTALS.
AND I KNOW THAT THAT'S REALLY HINDERED THEIR SELLABILITY, BUT THOSE WOULD SELL HAND OVER FIST AND THEY ARE A THOUSAND, 1200 SQUARE FEET.
SO IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO EXPLORE.
I KNOW YOU, I MEAN, LANDS EXPENSIVE.
AND INFRASTRUCTURE'S EXPENSIVE, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE MORE OF A LITTLE COTTAGE COMMUNITY MIGHT BE MORE DESIRABLE IN SOBO.
I THINK, UH, I LIKE THE, THE OVERALL IDEA.
I WILL SAY IT FEELS CONSTRAINED, UM, WITH, WITHOUT THE SIDEWALKS AND THEN THE NARROWING OF THE, OF THE STREETS.
UM, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK ALL OF THAT GOOD FEEDBACK FOR CONSIDERATION.
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE US TO BE MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT? UM, NO, I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK ANY DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY IS PRETTY CHALLENGING.
I THINK A SMALLER DEVELOPMENT'S GONNA HAVE THE SAME STRUGGLE WITH THE STREETS, THE SAME STRUGGLE, IF NOT MORE SO WITH PARKING.
UH, 'CAUSE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE EVEN MORE PEOPLE LIVING THERE AND MORE CARS.
UH, SO I THINK IT, IT'S JUST A REALLY CHALLENGING SITE TO
[02:45:01]
DEVELOP.I'M ALMOST ON THE, TO BE COMPLETELY HONEST ON THE OPPOSITE THINGS OR OPPOSITE SIDE OF THINGS, IT SOUNDS LIKE AS EVERYONE ELSE, I, YOU'VE GOTTA MAKE SENSE OF IT FINANCIALLY, BUT I'D ALMOST PREFER FEWER HOMES WITH SIDEWALKS AND BIGGER LOTS PERSONALLY.
BUT I MEAN, IT MAY NOT MAKE SENSE FINANCIALLY FOR Y'ALL THEN.
UM, I'VE JUST SEEN, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, TO YOUR POINT, THE, THE ONES THAT HAVE LEFT A BAD TASTE IN MY MOUTH AROUND TOWN WITH STACKED IN HOMES, THAT, AND I'M, Y'ALL KNOW, I GREW UP HERE, SO LESS IS MORE FOR ME, BUT, UM, I'D PREFER TO SEE LESS, IS MY OPINION.
I MEAN, THOSE THINGS SELL FOR A MILLION PLUS.
OR HAVEN'T SOLD, BUT YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE YEAH, BUT THEY'RE A MILLION DOLLAR MILLION AND A HALF.
DIDN'T THEY ABANDONED THE PROJECT ON SCHOOL STREET? OR IS THAT STILL GOING FORWARD? I WONDERED ABOUT THAT.
THERE'S A, THERE'S A NEW FOR SALE SIGN UP THERE.
THEY'RE GONNA PUT THOSE HIGH DOLLAR HOUSES UP THERE.
IT WAS ONE LITTLE CUL-DE-SAC STREET, KIND OF LIKE THIS.
THE ACTUALLY THE INITIAL ONE THAT WAS, UH, DISCUSSED BEFORE THIS SCOTT FELDER WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PROPOSED BEHIND THE PROPERTY WHERE WE LIVE, UM, ON ADLER.
AND I, I MEAN, IT DROVE ME CRAZY THAT IT WAS EVEN UNDER CONSIDERATION TO STACK THAT MANY HOMES IN A PLACE.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, THERE'S ANY WAY TO MAKE FINANCIAL SENSE OF HAVING LESS, BUT I, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD PREFER TO SEE.
EVEN IF THE HOMES ARE MORE, I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE GONNA PAY TO LIVE IN BERNIE.
[6.A. Introduction of William Willingham, Planner II. ]
AGENDA, ITEM SIX, COMMENTS FROM COMMISSION, LEGAL COUNSEL OR STAFF.UH, WE'D LIKE TO INTRODUCE, UH, WILLIAM WILLINGHAM, UH, AND HAVE HIM INTRODUCE YOU, UH, HIMSELF TO THE COMMISSION.
UH, I'M WILLIAM WILLINGHAM, AS HE MENTIONED.
UH, I CAME FROM THE CITY OF SHIRTS BEFORE I WAS DOING PLANNING OVER THERE AS WELL.
I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME NEW OPPORTUNITIES, LOOKING FOR, UM, SOMETHING EXCITING, LOVE ALL THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN HERE IN BERNIE AND IN THE PLANNING WORLD.
HOW MUCH Y'ALL CARE ABOUT YOUR ENVIRONMENT, HOW MUCH Y'ALL CARE ABOUT YOUR DARK SKIES, HOW MUCH, THERE'S SO MUCH OF A STRONG SENSE OF COMMUNITY HERE AND A DIRECTION THAT Y'ALL WANT TO SEE THE CITY TO CONTINUE TO GO.
UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY DREW ME HERE AND I'M VERY THANKFUL TO BE HERE AND HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF Y'ALL WANT EVER CHAT.
WILL YOU MOVE TO BERNIE? UH, I MOVED CLOSER, SO I WAS ACTUALLY STAYING OUT BY, UH, WEST, EXCUSE ME, EAST OF 1604 AND 2 81.
[6.B. 2026 APA Texas Planning Conference on October 14-16, 2026 in Irving, Texas.]
UH, THE 2026 TEXAS A PA PLANNING CONFERENCES ON OCTOBER 14TH THROUGH 16TH IN IRVING, TEXAS.UH, SO IF YOU HAVE, UH, INTEREST IN ATTENDING, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
UH, WE HAVE, UH, BUDGET SET ASIDE, UH, FOR TWO OR THREE, I BELIEVE, TO ATTEND.
WILL THERE BE A EMAIL THAT COMES TO SURE.
UH, FINALLY, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR CALENDARS, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'D LIKE TO DO IS, YOU KNOW, UH, WE'LL NEXT WEEK WE'LL HAVE A NEW, UH, COMMISSIONER APPOINTED BY COUNSEL.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'D LIKE TO DO IS START, UH, WITH A, UH, WORK SESSION FOR LACK OF A BETTER DESCRIPTION, WHERE WE COME IN, UH, ABOUT DINNER TIME, UH, PROVIDE, PROVIDE YOU DINNER.
WE'LL GO OVER SOME THINGS M CAN GO OVER SOME, UH, KEY THINGS TO CONSIDER ALSO, AND, AND JUST PROVIDE A LITTLE TRAINING.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, UM, SIT AND CHAT AND GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER A LITTLE BIT.
AND, UH, SO IF YOU GUYS LOOK, I KNOW HOLIDAYS ARE BUSY, NOT HOLIDAYS, WE'RE IN THE SUMMER.
UH, SUMMER IS BUSY WITH, UH, HOLIDAY, HOLIDAY TRAVEL.
IS THAT BETTER? UM, SO IF YOU COULD LET ME KNOW WHAT YOUR SCHEDULES ARE FOR THE NEXT TWO MONTHS, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
WHEN YOU'RE GONNA BE OUTTA TOWN WOULD BE GREAT.
I'LL MISTY SEND YOU AN EMAIL TO RES REPLY TO.
WITH THAT BEING SAID, I JUST WANNA THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH ME TONIGHT.
THAT'S THE LONGEST MEETING I HAVE EVER
[02:50:01]
CHAIRED, AND A LITTLE BIT OF POLISHING TO DO.I'M NOT AS SMOOTH AS TIM VAN WOLF
BUT, UH, THANK YOU ALL AND, UH, I'LL CALL THIS MEETING DURING AT 8:50 PM GREAT JOB.